pdw Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 MB is planning on making the bluetec diesel available in other cars such as the ML, GL, etc. for 2008 and I believe that BMW is also planning on bringing their diesels over. Jeep will have the Grand Cherokee with their 3.0L CDi next year, which I think is very similar to the engine in the E320. I agree that diesels are much better suited for mid sized and full sized trucks, SUVs, and crossovers both for their improved milage and torque for towing. I find it amazing that you can get almost the same highway milage in a Tuareg V10 TDi as you can in an auto Legacy Gt. I'd be fine with a good diesel in a luxury car too. They're just not very sporty. The simple fact is that they took off in Europe because of fuel prices. People wanted better mpg and, as a result, diesels have had a lot of development thrown at them over the last 20 years or so. If fuel prices weren't high in Europe, they'd drive gas engines just like we do. Now that they've been developed to such a high level, they've become pretty decent and livable. I'm not convinced they're that much more enjoyable to drive than a hybrid. It just depends on the purpose at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 That'd probably work pretty well in a Forester, and a larger more powerful diesel in the Tribeca. A turbo-diesel Tribeca would be awesome. 250+hp and 425+ lb ft torque. It would be a monster. I would definitely get one. I could imagine tuners programming it for 50-80 more hp and torque. Awesome!!!! *wakes up from wet dream* . I'm pretty certain that all diesel vehicles on the road these days are turbo. You need the pressure to get the explosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I'm pretty certain that all diesel vehicles on the road these days are turbo. You need the pressure to get the explosion. There have been a few naturally aspirated diesels sold in the US for automotive use. The higher compression ratio will take care of ignition no boost needed. The boost is needed though in order for the diesel to make good horsepower, since most can't turn over much faster than about 4,000rpm's since the fuel burns more slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 There have been a few naturally aspirated diesels sold in the US for automotive use. The higher compression ratio will take care of ignition no boost needed. The boost is needed though in order for the diesel to make good horsepower, since most can't turn over much faster than about 4,000rpm's since the fuel burns more slowly. Yeah, there's still plenty of diesels sold for things like tractors, generators and boats that don't have turbos. Cars didn't start wide use of turbo diesels until the 80's but there were plenty of non-turbo diesels before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon in CT Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 Yes, CARB is the reason why the only diesel sold in the USA in 2007 is the E320 bluetec. Because of its particulate soot trap, it meets the more stringent emissions regulations placed on diesels.Next contestant please. According to http://www.mbusa.com/models/main.do?modelCode=E320CDI: The E320 BLUETEC does not meet emissions requirements for California, Maine, Massachusetts, New York or Vermont, and is not available in these states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 ;1100274']Next contestant please. According to http://www.mbusa.com/models/main.do?modelCode=E320CDI: That is because it hasn't gone through the full testing cycle. MB introduced Bluetec in an effort to get diesels that can be sold in those states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 I live in South Dakota, I could give a rat's ass what fools that live in CARB states can drive. My suggestion to those folks is move to a real state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon in CT Posted April 9, 2007 Share Posted April 9, 2007 MB introduced Bluetec in an effort to get diesels that can be sold in those states.And it ain't gonna happen with the 2007 model. Maybe they'll have better luck with the 2008 model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantal Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 There have been a few naturally aspirated diesels sold in the US for automotive use. The higher compression ratio will take care of ignition no boost needed. The boost is needed though in order for the diesel to make good horsepower, since most can't turn over much faster than about 4,000rpm's since the fuel burns more slowly. Whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Whatever Don't take it so hard Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I live in South Dakota, I could give a rat's ass what fools that live in CARB states can drive. My suggestion to those folks is move to a real state. Unfortunately for you, if a car can't be sold in those states, it's not economical to sell it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 ;1100418']And it ain't gonna happen with the 2007 model. Maybe they'll have better luck with the 2008 model. Yeah, sorry. Meant to say that. That was the overall goal for MB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I live in South Dakota, I could give a rat's ass what fools that live in CARB states can drive. My suggestion to those folks is move to a real state. I have no interest in living in any other state, thank you. I dont know what state could possibly offer what California has to offer in all things, including cars... CARB is easy to deal, and everyone does. Europe has tougher emissions standards now and more nanny-state laws than California. Anyway, I'm patiently awaiting a Diesel subaru... That will probably be my next purchase, unless something else thats more efficient comes out from Subaru. I'm tired of my piss poor gas mileage from a 4-cylinder (especially since all of the subaru n/a 4-cylinders seem to get the same mileage, whether it be a 1.8, 2.2, or 2.5...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I have no interest in living in any other state, thank you. I dont know what state could possibly offer what California has to offer in all things, including cars... CARB is easy to deal, and everyone does. Europe has tougher emissions standards now and more nanny-state laws than California. Anyway, I'm patiently awaiting a Diesel subaru... That will probably be my next purchase, unless something else thats more efficient comes out from Subaru. I'm tired of my piss poor gas mileage from a 4-cylinder (especially since all of the subaru n/a 4-cylinders seem to get the same mileage, whether it be a 1.8, 2.2, or 2.5...) I lived in southern California, and did not care for it at all. The only good thing in the whole state is Camp Pendleton. To each his own though. As far as the diesels that can't be sold in CARB states making it impossible for that model to be economically viable I would point out that there are still tens of millions of other potential customers in all the other 45 or so states, and that is why the vehicles are still being offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Whatever Nice response, but what did you expect? If the diesel had to have boost in order to operate how would it even fire up the first time without it? Producing boost is dependent on exhaust flow in a turbocharged application, or steady engine rotation in a supercharged engine. Both only happen once the engine is running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I have no interest in living in any other state, thank you. I dont know what state could possibly offer what California has to offer in all things, including cars... CARB is easy to deal, and everyone does. Europe has tougher emissions standards now and more nanny-state laws than California. Anyway, I'm patiently awaiting a Diesel subaru... That will probably be my next purchase, unless something else thats more efficient comes out from Subaru. I'm tired of my piss poor gas mileage from a 4-cylinder (especially since all of the subaru n/a 4-cylinders seem to get the same mileage, whether it be a 1.8, 2.2, or 2.5...) Emissions laws in CA (excepting CO2 emissions) are tougher than Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 As far as the diesels that can't be sold in CARB states making it impossible for that model to be economically viable I would point out that there are still tens of millions of other potential customers in all the other 45 or so states, and that is why the vehicles are still being offered. Yeah, lots of diesel cars being offered elsewhere. What are there? Two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Yeah, lots of diesel cars being offered elsewhere. What are there? Two? Unfortunately, of course in fairness there weren't many before the new standards either. More of a perception problem with US consumers in my view, than an emissions problem. Even once all the makers that want them get them certified I think it will take a while for them to catch on with most buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Unfortunately, of course in fairness there weren't many before the new standards either. More of a perception problem with US consumers in my view, than an emissions problem. Even once all the makers that want them get them certified I think it will take a while for them to catch on with most buyers. The standards haven't changed over the last few years but manufacturers had an even tougher time before because diesel fuel sold in this country had higher sulphur content than what is refined for Europe. That changed last year. The particulate emissions from diesels ARE NOT good for you and I'm overall a fan of what the EPA did for emissions rules. Maybe that's because I'm old enough to remember when emissions rules were loose and cars really stunk. The EPA rules were what drove EFI and catalytic converters. If it drives cleaner diesels, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 The standards haven't changed over the last few years but manufacturers had an even tougher time before because diesel fuel sold in this country had higher sulphur content than what is refined for Europe. That changed last year. The particulate emissions from diesels ARE NOT good for you and I'm overall a fan of what the EPA did for emissions rules. Maybe that's because I'm old enough to remember when emissions rules were loose and cars really stunk. The EPA rules were what drove EFI and catalytic converters. If it drives cleaner diesels, so be it. Emissions rules are a good thing in my book too, the only problem I see with the really low sulphur fuel is it's lack of lubricity and it's affect on fuel rail pumps. An additive needs to be created to return diesel's slick nature so these parts don't wear out especially on older existing engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I lived in southern California, and did not care for it at all. The only good thing in the whole state is Camp Pendleton. To each his own though. Socal is odd, but it has its fans. Norcal, especially the foothills, is a lot like the black hills (ive been there, and was instantly reminded of the Sierra foothills towns, but SD is a bit more isolated...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostamojen Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Emissions laws in CA (excepting CO2 emissions) are tougher than Europe. Not any more. The latest European standards and upcoming standards are far more severe. Most CARB certified designs are being imported to Europe to satisfy the requirements, and the new saftey laws and other regulations from the EU are actually driving most car designs at this moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godwhomismike Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 Emissions rules are a good thing in my book too, the only problem I see with the really low sulphur fuel is it's lack of lubricity and it's affect on fuel rail pumps. An additive needs to be created to return diesel's slick nature so these parts don't wear out especially on older existing engines. I have been seeing on diesel forums that lots of owners have been using additives to make up for the lack of lubricity with the low sulfur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Socal is odd, You got that right.:lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I have been seeing on diesel forums that lots of owners have been using additives to make up for the lack of lubricity with the low sulfur. A budy of mine has a Duramax, and he puts in some sort of additive. What I would want to see is the additive in the fuel from the pump if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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