Metal2You Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Are you still running steel control arms in the rear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 ^^^Yep, for now Thanks for the recommendations guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 You should get a corner balance if all possible before the alignment if you want that kind of performance. If you plan to skip this part, just go ahead and just do the alignment. Anytime you do a corner balance, you should follow-up with an alignment. Hopefully your camber plates will help you get something around -3.0 if all possible.. I know on my car I was able to get -4.0 (but I normally run -3.0 to -3.5 for the track up front). now, this is my preference on my car since you may want to set up your car looser than mine but here's my suggestion: Set up the car for daily driving specs (as I assume you want this the foremost). Front= 0 camber (max out the stock camber bolt first, then adjust the camber plate to achieve 0 camber). If you can't get zero camber, you can deal with -1.0 camber @ around +6.5 to +7.0 caster. With that much caster, you'll eventually get negative camber while turning, so dont worry about the zero camber anyways. run zero toe if possible, if not, run some toe-in at 1/32" in. Rear= Lower the car to your desired height, and you'll get your static camber (it should be around -1.5 to -1.75). Try not to drop it too low as you dont have spring preload to mess with to keep the suspension travel short. Once you get the ride height right, set your toe in the rear to be zero.. you really dont want to make the car twitchy by using toe-in (when combined with toe-out up front, you'll really make the car rotate). Toe out in the rear will make the car unstable at high speeds, but it will be stable in the rain (at least as far as I know.. a more experienced suspension guru should come in and correct me if Im wrong with this setup). Track: Once you get your daily driving setup, go ahead and ask the shop to knock in the camber plates to full negative to see what they come up with. It should be around -3.0 or more.. when you reach max, you will get toe-out.. I think you will get something as much as 3/32" toe-out (which is great for autox), but since it's track, you dont need that much, 1/16" toe-out up front is more than plenty and we'll adjust the rest through tire pressures if we need to get the car to turn in more. Rear: Since the rear is not adjustable at this point, we'll just dial in the tire pressures and dampening to make the car rotate from this point. The crticial point is finding the correct ride height to get the car to give you the maximum braking potential (if that's how you want to drive the car) or we can learn how to just do a lot of weight-transfer and pivot the car by using "slow-in fast-out" driving method. If the car can hold a swing (aka drift), then we are money if we are flat on the gas at that point. I set my car to a higher ride height up front than the rear to keep the balance more to the rear when I get on the gas, which prevents the rear end to step out too much, the car can step out under braking just fine, and I can stop the rotation by adding throttle to get the rear end to sit down. my car has a higher ride height up front than the rear and still use stiffer springs up front.. This allows me to get on the brakes hard and keep the car sitting level as possible under braking to use all 4 tires instead of relying on the 2 up front to stop the car. If you want to do "pivoting", then set up your car with less camber (no more than -2.5 degrees up front for track use) so that you can get more braking potential than running -3.5 or -4.0. If you plan to drive with later braking, run more negative camber.. I havent been to this track before, so I dont know what the best aligment is. I know at Summit Point Main Circuit I can use a lot more camber than VIR (since VIR has a lot more flat areas and the braking zones are a lot hotter and longer so it's better off to run a flatter setup. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 It's interesting what you write about fronts vs. rear. Can you post side shot of your car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 Comparison Pics are posted Once it gets nicer later today, I will get some better pics at exactly the same place as the before, but those will work for now... Plus, the fog was screwing w/ the focus on the camera I could go A LOT lower in front and back, but I like it as is. Slight lowering w/ much better performance. The control arms WILL be put on today, and I will get an alignment Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul_Good Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 What suspension. -2 camber in front is not achiveable with e.g. Bilsteins/Pinks with stock camber bolts. Just had this done last nite. I have the Eibach EZ Cam bolts. Got it to: Front Camber -2 Front Toe 0 Rear Camber (unadjustable): -1, -1.10 Rear Toe 0 These specs were achieve with abou 155lbs ballast in my drivers seat (simulates my weight), 1/4tank fuel, with spare pulled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Just had this done last nite. I have the Eibach EZ Cam bolts. Front Camber -2 These Eibach cam bolts allow for more camber then OEM bolts I assume? Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Rear= Lower the car to your desired height, and you'll get your static camber (it should be around -1.5 to -1.75). Try not to drop it too low as you dont have spring preload to mess with to keep the suspension travel short. Once you get the ride height right, set your toe in the rear to be zero.. you really dont want to make the car twitchy by using toe-in (when combined with toe-out up front, you'll really make the car rotate). Toe out in the rear will make the car unstable at high speeds, but it will be stable in the rain (at least as far as I know.. a more experienced suspension guru should come in and correct me if Im wrong with this setup). I doubt that I am more experienced with suspension setup that you Keefe, but it has always been my understanding that a little rear toe-in actually helps to stabilize the rear end. If you think about it in very simplistic term, under cornering loads with some rear toe-in the outside rear tire is trying to push the tail to the inside of the turn as opposed to toe-out which will pull it outward, rotating the car more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul_Good Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 These Eibach cam bolts allow for more camber then OEM bolts I assume? yessireebob!! When i get better at driving. I may upgrade to camber-plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I doubt that I am more experienced with suspension setup that you Keefe, but it has always been my understanding that a little rear toe-in actually helps to stabilize the rear end. If you think about it in very simplistic term, under cornering loads with some rear toe-in the outside rear tire is trying to push the tail to the inside of the turn as opposed to toe-out which will pull it outward, rotating the car more. From my persoanl experience with my LGT you are correct. I tried toe out before on the rear just for the fun of it before an alignment, then it really liked to oversteer! Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 SpecB Control Arms are on with the SuperPro bushings. I have no idea how they handle or change things because I am babying my car See this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexster Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 The camber plates add some height. I (with Pauls help ) tried to account for that, but I apparently misjudged. how much height do they add? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 What suspension did you have before? Stock? The front/rear wheel gaps look surprisingly even for stock. Was the car on unlevel surface when you took the shots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 how much height do they add?The camber plates were advertised to raise it 3/8". I think it might be closer to 1/2". What suspension did you have before? Stock? The front/rear wheel gaps look surprisingly even for stock. Was the car on unlevel surface when you took the shots?I was on the stock suspension beforehand. The before pictures show a little more gap in the front than the rear. It was unloaded on a level surface... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Dunno, the rear gap seems bigger than usual. The car is parked by the curb, I think it's tilted towards the curb. Roads are "crowned" usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexster Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 The cambe plates were advertised to raise it 3/8". I think it might be closer to 1/2". if that's in comparison to the USDM strut mount these might work well with a bilstein/pink set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 That is with respect to replacing the top hat. It does not replace the upper spring Seat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul_Good Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 if that's in comparison to the USDM strut mount these might work well with a bilstein/pink set up. I don't think you can use these with the stock type suspension. Someone correct me on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Yes, you can. I talked w/ MSi about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul_Good Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 So it'll raise the front more than it is now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Yep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praedet Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 I added pics of the SpecB Control Arms in the install section. I also added better after pics. Here is the damage from the monkey w/ a wrench... http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/praedet/Suspension/IdiotBrokenKnuckle1.jpg http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/praedet/Suspension/IdiotBrokenKnuckle2.jpg http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/praedet/Suspension/IdiotBrokenKnuckle3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KartRacerBoy Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Hey, is that the same guy that melted my my turbo housing (and cooked its bearing) when trying to get a stripped stud out when installing my downpipe? If not, they both come from the same neanderthal cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edkwon Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I just love the fact that LGTs with their rear multilink suspension makes accessing/removing and changing out the rear struts so much easier than the Impreza's rear MacPhersons, esp on the sedans. GCs were an enormous PITA, GDs only slightly less so. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 It's interesting what you write about fronts vs. rear. Can you post side shot of your car? I use to have a pic somewhere here on the boards with the car set up one way for the autox where you can see even under hard acceleration with 8k/6k springs, there was still a lot of squat.. BUT under braking the car was nice and level.. so I kept that in mind and then cornered balanced near that ride height... By the naked eye, you cant see the corner balance differences, but when you look at my car now, it's about 1/2" higher up front than the rear.. I'll have to take a pic of it tomorrow for you as the car is up on jack stands being worked on for a few things for maintenance.. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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