thehikingdude Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I've yet to have time to try this, but here's some info I got from Tony of RF. ================================= You want to drive your amp with a maximum signal level. The hotter the signal, the lower your amp gains need to be. 3Sixty is capable of 7.2V out before clipping. Many amps input range is 20mV to 4V (the 4V position would be MIN on your gain pot). If 3Sixty can deliver 7V out, then your amp gain would be set to MIN (ideally). This assumes a 0dB signal which most music is NOT recorded at. To compensate for this, installers will add gain overlap. After you add 5 to 10dB of gain overlap, your amp gain would need to be somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2. Note: to get 7.2V from the 3Sixty you can do the following: Factory default + 12dB Ex A: Level 0dB, boost +2dB at a single freq Ex B: Level -3dB boost +5dB at a single freq Ex C: level -10dB boost +10dB at a single freq* Notice with option C there is still 2 dB of headroom not used. If you adjust several sliders say 800, 1k, 1.25k to +10dB, they each contribute a little to each other (based on the Q value of the filter) so your overall output at 1k would be close to 12dB. This is why we default the output level to -10dB (so customers don't clip the device). All the EQ mentioned above assumes OEM integration does not boost any EQ. Any boost done by OEM is used to amplify the incoming signal so if OEM sets 1k at 5dB. There is still 12dB of headroom at 1k if your level is at -10dB. In that case you could boost 1k to +10 (up from 5) and still adjust your output level from -10 up to (12 - 5 = 7dB -10 + 7 = -3dB) -3dB and maximize the signal out at 1k. Hope that makes sense and doesn't confuse the situation. ~Tony ================================== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth1784 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Seth... Yes I agree, I didnt realize all that was in the radio. Sorry.. oh totally cool just trying to help you out. also Hikingdude... going to have to try that out tonight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f85stealth Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 im still not getting enough gain out of my system before the feedback/engine whine. im pretty annoyed spending as much money as i have and i have these issues whether its subaru or rockford i dono but i think there needs to be a box out there that will break the connection on the RCA's when an audio signal is not detected, that would elminate most or all of the problem one the volume is up even the first notch its very hard to hear but when you are on the phone or trying to have a conversation with someone the engine whine is just unbareable......i wish there was an RF tech in florida that could go over the system.....dealers dont seem to know any more then i do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishingFiend Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 im still not getting enough gain out of my system before the feedback/engine whine. im pretty annoyed spending as much money as i have and i have these issues whether its subaru or rockford i dono but i think there needs to be a box out there that will break the connection on the RCA's when an audio signal is not detected, that would elminate most or all of the problem one the volume is up even the first notch its very hard to hear but when you are on the phone or trying to have a conversation with someone the engine whine is just unbareable......i wish there was an RF tech in florida that could go over the system.....dealers dont seem to know any more then i do.... I've got mine dialed in pretty good now, I'm going to assume that if your 3sixty2 is not defective, then the noise problem resides on your side. Before you hunt down a dealer, I have a couple of thoughts. Through 4 weeks of tuning experiments, I learned that whenever I turned the gains up, I introduced noise. This includes the gains on the amp and more importantly, the gains on the 3sixty2 itself. Your extreme noise problem sounds odd? I only got this when I had the gains on the 3sixty2 turned up. As soon as I would start lowering the gain, the noise went away. I have the gains all the way down on the 3sixy2 and all my amps. Try lowering all your gains and listen for noise. I have the headunit whine but it's not loud enough to be annoying with the engine on. Yours sounds like a different problem. My other thought is to check your time delay settings. What are they now? The more delay added the weaker it will sound. This is more perception though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f85stealth Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 yea my problem is different then what you are talking about and no i do not have any delay on my speakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth1784 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 stealth... i wanna venture a guess that you have a bad unit to be totally honest. i have some engine whine coming through my speakers but its minimal and only seems to come around when i really push the car. normally i dont hear any no matter the volume of the speakers. i dont have my gains set like the rf tech says either im like you. my 4 channel amp is about 3/4 up and my mono block is about the same or slightly past that then my remote to it is about 3/4 mark. all of that is to get my gains some where i want my sound to be. on the processor i kicked the sub output higher but my 4 channel i left alone. i think it would be nice if we could all get together to see how each person has things set and listen to everyone's things all together lol so we could all be on the exact same page without confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLU24 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 out of curiosity- are any of you running "the big 3" or at least any upgraded grounds?? wondering if it hurts/helps the noise issue...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishingFiend Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 F85, you have not listed what components you're running beyond the 3sixty2. It's possible your equipment cannot meet your expectations... list it out. Seth, I'm in SoCal. Come on down... I'm alomst done, just one more tweeter upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishingFiend Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 out of curiosity- are any of you running "the big 3" What's a big 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth1784 Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 big three are upgrading grounding points in the engine... alternator is one i remember... i never did it in any other car but it stabalizes the idle of the car (without electrical upgrades like audio), and overall makes the car run a little smoother from what i read. i know a lot of people that swear by it as a gotta do upgrade but i've never done it lol. i havent even seen or heard of anyone with the legacy doing it. fishing lol uh yea i'll get right on that lol only a good 1500 miles to go im smack dab in the middle you all should come here lol!!!! here is what one grounding kit on the rsx did... granted it was a full blown not just three... Battery to Cylinder Head Battery to Intake Manifold Battery to Alternator Battery to Left Engine Mount Battery to Front Frame Battery to Stock Ground Battery to Shift Linkage Battery to Strut Brace Left Engine Mount to Left Fender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishingFiend Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Found this info on the "Big 3" ground update. It's now on my list. I've got mild headlight dimming, this maybe the cure... http://forum.sounddomain.com/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=007801;p= I'm with you Seth, I would really like to hear some other LGT's and their system. There's an unusal natural eq to the car I'm still trying to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehikingdude Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 Here's my setup: '07 Outback 2.5i Basic Factory Head Unit RF 3Sixty.two (4) Alpine Type-R 6.5" speakers Alpine MRV-F345 Amp 4 Gauge Power from the battery to the amp Ground Loop Isolator - I needed this with my Aux-In devices while power is plugged into them I get no noise regardless of where I set the gains on the 3Sixty or the amp. The only noise I get is from the factory head unit if I have the dash lights at full brightness. I still have the gains turned up on the amp as well as the 3Sixty. I like the option of listening to my music loud if I choose to, so I will be leaving the gains where they are at. If it sounds good, go with it - that's what really matters in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth1784 Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 fishing... i doubt that will help with the dimming to be honest... it might, but its not on my list because i dont think it will do what i want. power upgrade wise i have a dual battery set up... which i figured would fix any dimming problems what so ever. i have a dual post Optima yellow top up front (used to be called the D34/75 battery i dont remember the name of it now) which is like 750 cca i think (nothing huge, but its a bigger optima) then i have a BatCap 800 in the back in my enclosure which does 800 cca; the thing is 70% battery and 30% capacitor. with both of these (didnt do a relay this time around since i didnt care to separate them) i thought it would solve all the problems but it didnt. if i turn things up i get headlight dimming. im partly pissed and partly not... from what i read our alternator doesnt pump out a ton of power... sooooooo i have been searching for alternator upgrades and i found someone that can do stuff at a reasonable price. here is what he offered me: Here you go.. 180 $419 200 $439 220 $459 240 $479 Thanks, Dom on the left is amps it will put out, if it doesnt make total sense. all are direct replacment alternators. i looked into someone respinning the stock one for a higher output and no one will touch the thing. i think that will be my next and hopfully last step. but i might be doing some 4300k hids first, which will have less of a current draw as well. soooo who knows... id love to hear some of the other cars in here myself too with the eq stuff if you want i can post up what i did with mine lol im sure there is some way to export the info to the pc right? ive got an "S" shape curve to mine, which is usually how i like things lol! hiking... you're lucky you dont have the odd noises when the radio is off, or when there is dead air... that is my one and really only complaint so far to be honest. when i have the radio just off it kind of just bugs me and well i dunno how i can make it go away. lol oh well i guess nothing is ever just 100% perfect i suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f85stealth Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share Posted March 8, 2007 Ok i will start off with the easy one....doo noooottt upgrade the output of ur alternator by having it respun or purchasing a new one. What happens when you do this is now your alternator can produce this higher output but only at higher rpm ranges sooo this inturn affects the low idle. So this could infact cause rough idling at a stop or the shutdown of your car. This is y when u go to a spl show the cars are always reving there engine when they hit the deep bass notes. As for me not having the right equipmnet to get the volume i wont the is not the case. I had these same speakers but with lower model ones with shittier amps. I have heard what the lower model ones can do but now its nuthin but disappointment. I have all infinity equipment 6.5 kappa perfect componenets up from 6.5 three way coaxials back 4ch 111w rms@4 ohm highs amp and the subs and sub amp are yet to be installed....i need to finish the box My amp gains are all the way down as it sits and i have the output levels on the 3sixty.2 at -2 If i try and raise the amp gain i get noise.....sometimes if i fiddle with it, its perfect no noise what so ever.....but i am still not getting the volume out of my speakers that i wish to have. heres another kicker...i have the spec B with the factory nav. Well when the 3sixty was firstg installed with no tune the nav system was extremely loud but i had very high engine whine After tune not so bad engine whine and i can barely hear the nav....even worse then factory. I can only think of two thigns at this point one...turn up the gains on the input of the 3sixty....this will introduce distortion ionto the system but i may be able to turn it up enough to get the volume i need without a noticable distortion....two...my 3sixy is defective...this unit was refurbished and i did report the noise issues to RF before i tuned it and they said do the tune then try it out...welll now warranty is over (90 days only) and i still have the problem so i dono what to do at this point. I really wish somewhere in fl there is some RF techs that could help out...id even pay...ugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehikingdude Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 hiking... you're lucky you dont have the odd noises when the radio is off, or when there is dead air... that is my one and really only complaint so far to be honest. when i have the radio just off it kind of just bugs me and well i dunno how i can make it go away. lol oh well i guess nothing is ever just 100% perfect i suppose. Understood, but I also understand wanting it to be 100% perfect. I still need to take mine in since there's a slight rattle in the front left door when the speaker hits really low notes. For now I've turned down the low end frequencies via the 3Sixty to eliminate it. What a wonderful device! I hate to say it, but I'd be pissed off if I had bought a Cleansweep - IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehikingdude Posted March 8, 2007 Share Posted March 8, 2007 I really wish somewhere in fl there is some RF techs that could help out...id even pay...ugh! Have you tried the processor forum over at http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=28? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f85stealth Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 i tried...no luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth1784 Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 crap ok never realized the whole alternator thing... i guess i will have to figure out something else. oh well i suppose... it was only when i made things get really loud and stuff so i suppose i can live. sorry i didnt answer faster... i was out of the office for work friday then all weekend was pretty crappy soooo i didnt get online. hiking... i hear you on rattles... i have some that i dont even know where they are coming from sometimes they sound like my front windsheild (have heard noise like it leaks with wind more then once), others i think its my dash, then i have something coming from the rear too lol. my one on the dash is the most anoying though i hit any tiny ass bump and it rattles/pops makes me wanna scream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLU24 Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 sorry for the threadjack but: for the subwoofer- did you guys run a wire from the headunit to the 3sixty?? or does it get the signal internally from the other inputs?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishingFiend Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Seth, its the IDMAX12 that's shaking your car loose. Even with my JL10W6, the rattles range from the rear deck to the headliner. Nothing from my dash yet, but I do have this annoying squeak coming from the rear. I'm guessing it's the fold down seats, but I'm not there yet. I'm now on my 4th or 5th retune as I can't get the speakers to all sound the same. In my setup, I have a noticeable difference in sound from the left to the right channel and this is for both front and rear. I retuned over the weekend and now my right channel sounds way better than the left. Before the retune it was opposite. This one has me puzzled as it might be the polarity switched at the 3sixty2. Anyone else have this issue? JBLU24, the rear channels are not strong enough for the 3sixty2 to gather information, even when connected. It will sum the channels based upon FL & FR inputs. From here you can tune to your hearts content within the 3sixty2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBLU24 Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 thanx fishing another problem I'm having is: when we do the clipping test- i get no lights for the sub- just for the front and rear.......and even thought I've disconnected my rca outputs- during the track 1 test i keep hearing a "pop"- even though theres no output to the subs! I hope my guy didnt crosswire anything surprisingly, I still dont have any hum problems you guys have.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehikingdude Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 thanx fishing another problem I'm having is: when we do the clipping test- i get no lights for the sub- just for the front and rear.......and even thought I've disconnected my rca outputs- during the track 1 test i keep hearing a "pop"- even though theres no output to the subs! I hope my guy didnt crosswire anything surprisingly, I still dont have any hum problems you guys have.... Humless in Portland Regarding the clipping light for the sub, do you have a sub-input going into the 3Sixty? If not, then there's nothing to clip. I'd have them check out the sub if it's popping with no input to it. That doesn't sound right at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f85stealth Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 thanx fishing another problem I'm having is: when we do the clipping test- i get no lights for the sub- just for the front and rear.......and even thought I've disconnected my rca outputs- during the track 1 test i keep hearing a "pop"- even though theres no output to the subs! I hope my guy didnt crosswire anything surprisingly, I still dont have any hum problems you guys have.... there will be no lights for the sub during the clipping test. Those lights are only on from the left right front and rear channels because these are your inputs you are getting from your headunit. The only way to see clipping on ur sub is if your amplifier has that light on it....but that clipping should have nuthign to do with the 3sixty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f85stealth Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 thanx fishing another problem I'm having is: when we do the clipping test- i get no lights for the sub- just for the front and rear.......and even thought I've disconnected my rca outputs- during the track 1 test i keep hearing a "pop"- even though theres no output to the subs! I hope my guy didnt crosswire anything surprisingly, I still dont have any hum problems you guys have.... Sorry didnt know someone already responded to this but the poppring from your sub sounds funny i have a feeling its not your sub if the outputs arent connected i have popping on my rear speakers so itd make sense if it was on ur sub once the 3sixty sums the channels....get it looked at by a professional if you didnt do the installation to begin with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehikingdude Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Regarding connecting a sub to the 3Sixty; I'm having an Alpine PLT-5 installed tomorrow in my Outback 2.5i - getting the signal directly from the 3Sixty. I'll be sure to post an update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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