Autoamtic Camry SE faster than LGT?

[bosco]

all any engine is is an air pump bigger pump more power so what if the Subaru engine is 3.5L w/turbo. power sells and that would be an easy way to your goal. plus it won't add that much weight. bosco

[Penguin]

Yeah let's add 200+lbs of heavy metal to the front of the LGT with twice the center of gravity and twice as deep. Why not just hang a boat anchor off the front bumper? Talk about a pig...

 

So no car mounting a small block V8 can handle properly? I take it your LGT can out handle a Corvette? That must be one special LGT.

 

In order to significantly increase power Subaru would end up adding weight to the front end of the car, so they would have two choices redesign the car, or sacrifice handling for more power. A more powerful engine especially a turbocharged one means more cooling, so add more weight for a bigger radiatior, same for a larger intercooler, beefed up brakes (needed anyway), beefed up driveline etc.

 

The best option would be to redesign the car to handle a larger engine, push the weight back further into the chassis, bring the front wheels out, and viola the weight is now more evenly distibuted. They could just as easily put an LS series motor in the car (they won't as it is a GM product), as the LS#'s have a pretty low center of gravity since they don't have huge towering overhead cam assemblys. Ever noticed how low a Corvette hood is? I think it may be lower than the LGT's even taking into account different ride height.

[RangerMan]

I've said it before and I will say it again. For the price I paid for the LGT it was the best car that fit my needs. What I needed was a quick, 4 door. It is relatively quick, safe and a manual transmission. I bought in early 2005 and was able to order my unlimited vehicle.

 

Now that all Legacy GTs are limited models they have increased the price and are essentially trying to enter a market they cannot hope to win. Other than raw power the LGT is lacking in many areas. People on this board will tolerate these shortcomings because it IS easy to make power...not big power, just power and for the money you can make a MUCH faster vehicle...both straight-line and curves. My buddy road races a fire-bird and he has WAY less money in it than a new Legacy GT.

 

The point? Subaru does need to step it up. Just about every auto maker has a midsized 4 door with at least 250 hp, many don't require premium, are just as fast on and off the on ramps or getting out front in traffic.

 

I love the LGT and I love my Subaru. I plan on driving it for at least 10 years. But it will probably also be my only Subaru unless something drastically changes. Even in the next 1 year my wife will need a new car, and she just isn't interested in any of the Subaru's...and we're looking for a wagon/small cross over!

 

The LS# engines don't weigh very much. Many people put them in second gen RX-7s and they don't disturb the balance.

[wukindada]

Don't look now guys but with the way AT technology is going with Lexus having a 8AT & BMW confirming a 8AT for 08.

 

The MT cars may soon be surpassed performance wise;)

 

Control will always go to the MT but maybe the performance edge will go to the AT:eek:

 

That being said.......my next car will be a MT:)

[Deer Killer]

In order to significantly increase power Subaru would end up adding weight to the front end of the car, so they would have two choices redesign the car, or sacrifice handling for more power. A more powerful engine especially a turbocharged one means more cooling, so add more weight for a bigger radiatior, same for a larger intercooler, beefed up brakes (needed anyway), beefed up driveline etc.

No, no.

 

The best option would be to redesign the car to handle a larger engine, push the weight back further into the chassis, bring the front wheels out, and viola the weight is now more evenly distibuted. They could just as easily put an LS series motor in the car (they won't as it is a GM product), as the LS#'s have a pretty low center of gravity since they don't have huge towering overhead cam assemblys. Ever noticed how low a Corvette hood is? I think it may be lower than the LGT's even taking into account different ride height.

 

Helllls noooooo. boxer = cool. It makes a real difference in handling.

 

There is no need for any significant weight change in the engine to increase power output.

 

Brute force is uninteresting... although american.

[Deer Killer]

Go ahead, turn your legacy into this:

http://girtby.net/images/homer-car.gif

[godwhomismike]

I'd rather cut my balls off than get a Camry.

[godwhomismike]

oh btw... I am highly disappointed there is no 6sp auto in the '08 Legacy.

[robinlsb]

:lol:

Go ahead, turn your legacy into this:

http://girtby.net/images/homer-car.gif

 

har hat har!!!!!!!!

[SLegacy99]

H10 Ftw

[Beanboy]

Wonder how WRX buyers feel about their parents V6 Camry being able to beat them from a roll, hehe.

[bosco]

No, no.

 

 

 

Helllls noooooo. boxer = cool. It makes a real difference in handling.

 

There is no need for any significant weight change in the engine to increase power output.

 

Brute force is uninteresting... although american.

 

if the boxer is so great at handling then why do most high performance cars out handle it?

a 3.5L engine would not add much weight to the LGT plus the added cubes would make for a better driving car.

get off your high horse and try some high horse power.

bosco

[robinlsb]

Think Porsche:wub:

[robinlsb]

Think of how a LGT with crappy tires has a better cornering G rating than the Camry. Or think about the 0-100 comparison, 4 seconds, YIKES. You can gear any car to sprint to 60, but an automobile is so much more than that magic zero to sixty number. Heck, you could probably gear an LGT to do 4.0 to sixty, but it would not be a fun car on the highway.

[NovaWolverine]

Think of how a LGT with crappy tires has a better cornering G rating than the Camry. Or think about the 0-100 comparison, 4 seconds, YIKES. You can gear any car to sprint to 60, but an automobile is so much more than that magic zero to sixty number. Heck, you could probably gear an LGT to do 4.0 to sixty, but it would not be a fun car on the highway.

 

14.5 of the Camry is faster than the GT's 0-100 mph, right? I do agree that it's more than straightline speed, which is why BMWs are so well received from a performance aspect.

[Deer Killer]

if the boxer is so great at handling then why do most high performance cars out handle it?

Because I drive a family sedan.

 

a 3.5L engine would not add much weight to the LGT plus the added cubes would make for a better driving car.

More weight than twin twinscroll turbo's.

 

get off your high horse and try some high horse power.

bosco

fight fire with fire: trade your legacy in for a Z06, try their message boards.

[Jedi Pimp]

The Camry engine is not direct injection actually. The version used in the IS350 is however. While it is true a boxer engine has a low center of gravity the problem is having AWD forces Subaru to push the engine to the front of the car, probably negating some of the inherent advantages. Imagine if Subaru made a RWD Legacy for a minute (not trying to offend the AWD purists here). They could remove the front and center diffs and the front drive shafts, moving the engine back. It would have short overhangs, weigh 200lbs less, and have much less drivetrain loss and handle much better. It would also cost less to produce.

[Deer Killer]

The Camry engine is not direct injection actually. The version used in the IS350 is however. While it is true a boxer engine has a low center of gravity the problem is having AWD forces Subaru to push the engine to the front of the car, probably negating some of the inherent advantages.

 

But it's only 2-cylinders deep....

 

low center of gravity AND less rotational inertia.

 

As far as AWD setups go - this is it. Unless you make a midship design. This is why audi's are pigs while subaru's are better.

[bosco]

Because I drive a family sedan.

 

More weight than twin twinscroll turbo's.

 

fight fire with fire: trade your legacy in for a Z06, try their message boards.

 

1. not sure what that means

2. are you sure about that? btw alot less money to just make it bigger

3. don't need to trade LGT already own a Z06 plus i'm a member of the Corvette forum already

 

bosco

 

 

ps the LS series V-8 from the General is one of the greatest engines ever produced push rods and all.

[LittleBlueGT]

But it's only 2-cylinders deep....

 

low center of gravity AND less rotational inertia.

 

As far as AWD setups go - this is it. Unless you make a midship design. This is why audi's are pigs while subaru's are better.

 

Yep!

[pillboy]

I figured by having a small displacement engine with a turbo I'd have power when I needed it and good gas mileage when I didn't need the power.

 

I'm a dumb a$$hat.

[mopbucketman]

But it's only 2-cylinders deep....

Closer to 2.5. The left cylinder pair is offset from the right cylinder pair, of course.

 

low center of gravity AND less rotational inertia.

Low and less centralized. Since the whole engine sits higher than it should anyway, I do not think that we are gaining much over well-positioned V engines.

 

As far as AWD setups go - this is it. Unless you make a midship design.

The old Nissan R-34 Skyline was closer to this, but the long RB26 negated the effect. I wonder if Nissan will dispense with this and push the VQ way up forward of the axle to hang like a boat anchor in the front end like our Boxer engines do in our Legacys.

[rayu]

Comparing Car and Driver's broken in long term LGT's numbers, the manual legacy is ahead all the way to 130, though not by much.

 

If Subaru wants to gain some market share, I don't think the answer is more power. That's relatively easy to achieve, as the WRX STI and the many modded cars show. The harder thing is power with fuel efficiency. The three ways to achieve that are to make the cars lighter, make the cars more aerodynamic, reduce mechanical friction losses, and improve combustion efficiences. On the combustion efficiency side, one of the most promising new approaches is VW's combination of a supercharger and a turbocharger. Efficiences and mileage are approaching new-generation diesel levels. This would allow Subaru's Japanese market 2.0 to be used on a world wide basis with similar or slightly higher power levels to the LGT and real world fuel efficiency increasing at least 20%.

 

AWD, power, and world-class fuel efficiency both around town and on the highway would be a powerful message.

[john_knoxville]

I figured by having a small displacement engine with a turbo I'd have power when I needed it and good gas mileage when I didn't need the power.

 

I'm a dumb a$$hat.

:lol: :lol:

 

OTOH........it does allow for power when you need it but can still behave mildly when stuck in traffic or slow mph areas. a corvette would not be my first choice for bumper-to-bumper traffic.

[John M]

If my 4000lb Stealth could easily do 28-29 mpg on the highway (in modded form too), the LGT should be able to top 30. Why doesn't it? The absurdly short 5th gear!

 

You can tune your way to MPG by artificially delaying the turbo's response and making the throttle less responsive but nothing beats having the right hardware to start with.