GTTuner Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Last month I got sick of all the hissing from my Typhoon intake. So I installed my OE airbox and went on my merry way. I was still running TDC 2 protuned to the k&N, but it ran well with the stock A/B. So this past Saturday, I changed all the gear oils, coolant, and engine oil. While I was there I swapped the K&N back in and reset the ECU. I went out later and HOLT SHIT that K&N makes a big difference. (I have been running low 13's with my G-timer and the stock airbox.) I ran three consecutive 12's....12.78, 12.75, AND 12.90. I cant believe it made such a difference. The run was 12.78 @ 106.1. The 60' time was 1.68 sec, my best ever.....and my 1/8 mile trap speed was 84.9, also my best ever. THat run also measured a 0-60 in 4.03 sec!!! Previous best was 4.38. I thought maby it was just really good air that night, so Sunday I ran again during the day and came up with a 12.92. Not too shabby in my book. Moral of the story.....The K&N makes BIG power if your tuned for it. Just the noise sucks (no pun intended). I hated it last month, but now that I saw the light of day, I can't help but love that HISSSSSSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmarko Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 What have you run at the track though? I don't trust the g-tech #'s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automaticsti Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 mmm i love turbo noise..........even thogh we have a very "unique" turbo noise to say the least.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuxtaGT Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 While I don't know about the g-techs precision, I do believe they are fairly consistent. It's the difference in numbers I'm looking at, and I have no doubt a tuned car with a K&N intake makes more power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTsullyman Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I bet the temp had a bigger impact than the filter. 2007 DGM LGT 2003 Suzuki SV650S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoracer Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I bet the temp had a bigger impact than the filter. +1. all u'r doing is sucking in HOT under the hood air into the intake and making some extra noise. get a drop in filter OEM intake FTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 I bet the temp had a bigger impact than the filter. That was my first impression, but the next day it was actually warmer than the night before. Don't forget I'm protuned for stg2 with the K&N. The G-timer is something I use for comparison. If I run a 12.90, that would be the time with a perfect light at the track. It wasn't just the numbers, it was the butt dyno I felt it in first. Then I went back and hooked up the timer to confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 ^ Agreed with the two previous posts - there's several "problems" with your observations here, brother GTTuner.... The most subjective is that it's gotten considerably colder in many areas of the US over the last week or so, as compared to just before. As we all well-know, our LGTs are very sensitive to ambient temperature, and this alone could have significantly impacted your results. The only way to "equalize" things in this respect would be to carefully log and match your IATs throughout your runs. While you've noted that this trend was reversed where you are (i.e. warmer during your K&N runs), actual IAT at the start of each run may still have varied greatly depending on your "staging" conditions. A less subjective concern would be your ECU reset. Unless you've take the time to insure that several critical power-affecting factors are "equal" between the times you've clocked your vehicle using the stock airbox and when you've just done the reset - such as learned knock correction, IAM, etc. - these issues could all also significantly biase results to favor the "fresh" computer. Finally, I'd also try this experiment with carefully monitored and matched tire pressures. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTsleeper2 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 +1. all u'r doing is sucking in HOT under the hood air into the intake and making some extra noise. get a drop in filter OEM intake FTW i have to call B.S. on this. my typhoon does not suck in hot air from the engine bay. ive had mine year around & with the 'heat blocker' does its job, when the hood is closed its traped away from the engine. my cone fits in & down into the fender area. hot or cold out & running it hard, it is the coolest part of the car. even the the inlet tube. im not playing oem box vs typhoon. just correcting statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 ^ Not certain - this will need to be datalogged. It's known that the stock airbox keeps things VERY cool - exactly how effective a non-sealing shield, such as the one K&N Typhoon, will compare is not a known quantity at this point.... I know that even though I tried to completely seal-off the intake area with a home-fab'ed shield - using laboratory-grade thermoplastic (something that does not melt even in an autoclave, and remains cool-to-the-touch at anything under about 200 deg. F.) and about $50s worth of ThermoTec insulating fabric/tape, I could not get my intake temperature to go down *quite* as far with this setup as with the stock airbox. Since the Tyhpoon does not offer a complete seal around its shielded perimeter, I am inclined to think that it would be even more problematic when it comes to IATs as the vehicle "sits." Once the vehicle is in-motion, though, it becomes debateable as to whether or not the stock airbox will provide much of an advantage. This area does heat up very fast, but it also cools down fast, too, especially if the intake "snorkus/ram" is retained. Whether or not the stock airbox -vs- aftermarket short-ram intake - as to which produces quantitatively "more power" - outside of the rather disappointing SPT intake - becomes a matter of whose numbers you'd like to believe, as well as, to an extent, the capability of the tuner. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 ^^^^^Agreed 100%. Temps were in the low 60's last weekend. Much cooler than when I actually went stage 2. Funny thing is I did some logging with both air intakes and the stock A/B flows ALMOST as good. THe K&N flows more at lower RPMS than the air box. I logged that. Example; My K&N flows in excess of 240gs at 6k. The stock air box wont hit that until 7k. The ECU reset must have done a kick in the ass, since it had been running and learning on the stock A/B for 3000 miles. You think that has more to do with it? Resetting, that is, getting rid of "bad" memory???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 ^ Not completely sure about the g/s airflow measurement. From what little I understand, you'd have to log both this factor, as well as voltage from the MAF, to insure that the tuner did not re-scale things and thereby make this particular factor something that you cannot use in-comparison. I wish I had more technical knowledge than that, but alas, bro, I don't. As for the "learning" or "bad memory," the problem is that even if you started with matching IAM, indeed, clearing off the ECU would have purged its learned knock correction and fueling, and that could cause a slight bias towards the "fresh" computer, as it would run the car closer to the border of being "harmed," while giving more power. This is a reason why some hobbyists feel that the "Vishnu Reset" may do more harm than good - and also why some tuners set their initial IAMs rather low, in order for the vehicle to safely re-learn its full power potential. Caution - I should note that this is all according to my very lay understanding of things. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTsleeper2 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 ok here. maybe i typed wrong or it was taken wrong but i wasnt saying oem box=bad. typhoon= bestest:( as a siting car is going to heat the intakes,boxs, inlet hose,ect. hell who cares about that, how about the most important thing... the IC heating up. & as a side note- having a inlet to the box sitting on top of the radiator isnt what i call the best idea. i myself have gone further on the heatshield set-up also. but there wasnt anything much to do but put black tape on a little slit on the shield. & maybe something else i dont remember. i dont have it at this moment & working on & driving local brothers stg2 STI yesterday isnt helping my already piss poor addittued. like i said b4 im not playing the 'vs' game. just the statement made b4 is incorrect. i guess ppl have to see it when its installed in the car. i was just making a fact that it does not sit open in the engine bay & suck in HOT air. that was all i was saying nothing more:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 ^^^^ Thats why I respect your input. While you may feel your understanding of such items is simplistic, this is how we learn from other board menbers. IAT is definately a huge factor. THe heat shield on the K&N is adequate at best. I was thinking of your idea of 'encapsulating" that area to avoid heat from the engine to migrate in there. I just don't have the resources and time to develop one. I thought it might quiet things down too if the intake pipe was extended about four inches and was routed furthur down in the fender well. Maybe we should design one and sell it! Anyway, thanks for the input. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 GTsleeper.......pic's of your set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Maybe I missed something, but it seems that you where running OEM air box with a tune for the K&N. If that is true then of course the OEM airbox will seem a fair bit slower, not tuned for it. I am under the impression that the K&N is not really worth much power at stage 2 levels (3-4 whp) but starts to make over 10 whp at upgraded turbo levels. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 ....Example; My K&N flows in excess of 240gs at 6k. The stock air box wont hit that until 7k. .... Direct comparison's between the K&N and stock airbox can really only be made via: 1. clocking/logging acceleration 2. Drag strip 3. Dyno The MAF housing size between the 2 are not the same, hence any g/sec or MafV comparison is invalid. Your Gtech timed runs are however, VALID! So as long as you used the same stretch of tarmac, in similar weather conditions...etc. Edit: I didn't realize you were running a tune setup for the K&N on the stock AB, this may throw off some of the load sites used by the ecu. However, at this hp level it shouldn't affect it too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTsleeper2 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 GTsleeper.......pic's of your set up? i will later in the week. i have to get the car back first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 To go from low 13's to 12.8's, that Typhoon must have added around 50 whp. I want one Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWDxBOOST Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 i cant wait to get mine back on. i dont care if its loud, i like it hehe, just waitin for the FMIC from TDC still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 Maybe I missed something, but it seems that you where running OEM air box with a tune for the K&N. If that is true then of course the OEM airbox will seem a fair bit slower, not tuned for it. I am under the impression that the K&N is not really worth much power at stage 2 levels (3-4 whp) but starts to make over 10 whp at upgraded turbo levels. Yes, I was still running my protune from TDC with the stock air box. Jon said it would be fine, but not "optimal". Obiviously it was not! I was just thinking, my wife has been using the car alot lately. Maybe her granny foot screwed with the learning???? She made a comment about how "peppy" the car was last night at dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedNeeder Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I agree with LittleBlueGT, same tune for different intake is likely the culprit here. My other car is a 1993 Chevy S-10 Tahoe! (Currently being driven to failure by my nephew) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 ok here. maybe i typed wrong or it was taken wrong but i wasnt saying oem box=bad. typhoon= bestest:( ^ No no, I completely understand - and believe me, bro, I wasn't trying to "come down" on ya, either. as a siting car is going to heat the intakes,boxs, inlet hose,ect. hell who cares about that, how about the most important thing... the IC heating up. The TMIC heating up is definitely *the* culprit - but what has always been my question is precisely that: "how does the LGT know that the TMIC is heat-soaked, since we don't have a charge-temperature sensor?" After questioning a few of the more technically-capable Forum members, including Christian over at Cobb, as it turns out, our ECU simply takes information from the rest of the vehicle's sensors, in addition to the crucial IAT sensor mounted at the MAF, and runs an algorithm to determine if we "should be heat-soaked." As such, IAT becomes one of the most important determining factors as we initially tromp on the accelerator after "sitting." (Thereafter, physics should relatively quickly allow for an advantage to go towards a "cooler" TMIC or FMIC setup.) & as a side note- having a inlet to the box sitting on top of the radiator isnt what i call the best idea. Agreed again. But at the same time, this component is itself made out of relatively well-insulated plastic, and is quite thick at that. Furthermore, serving as a conduit for *flowing*, incoming ambient air should itself lend the positioning of this unit, atop the hot radiator assembly, some rather good protection from heat-transfer, again based on physical principles. i myself have gone further on the heatshield set-up also. but there wasnt anything much to do but put black tape on a little slit on the shield. & maybe something else i dont remember. i dont have it at this moment & working on & driving local brothers stg2 STI yesterday isnt helping my already piss poor addittued. A problem we have in "sealing off the area" is that temperatures there still tend to climb relatively rapidly. I have an el-cheapo temperature sensor hanging off in that area, and even with the area sealed-off, it still sees a tremendous amount of heat, and very rapidly at that. The good thing about the stock box is that it virtually isolates the complete system from that area, and it's this true separation, I think that allows it to much better manage IAT. like i said b4 im not playing the 'vs' game. just the statement made b4 is incorrect. i guess ppl have to see it when its installed in the car. i was just making a fact that it does not sit open in the engine bay & suck in HOT air. that was all i was saying nothing more:( I understand what you're saying. No worries. And also, I think it's important for everyone to remember that even if the component *is* "just sucking in hot air" - that this is most problematic only off-line after the vehicle has, literally, "sat" for a while. Once the vehicle is in-motion, whether or not the front snorkus is in-place, this area cools off *VERY* rapidly, and that, combined with the increased flow made capable by these aftermarket intakes, will help *somewhat* with power. --- LBGT and edmundu - well-put, brothers - and thanks to both of you for reminding us all of a very good concern, that brother GTTuner was running a map specifically designed for one intake (the K&N), with a totally different setup (stock airbox). Undoubtedly, that in and of itself could have accounted for the "problems" seen. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTTuner Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 i cant wait to get mine back on. i dont care if its loud, i like it hehe, just waitin for the FMIC from TDC still... :lol: Me too! Hiss away Typhoon. I gues thats why they named it the Typhoon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsme Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 just ask TDC they are the only ones that will know for sure. Racer X FMIC for '05-'09 LGTs, '08+ WRX and '10+ LGT,'14+ FXT, and '15+ WRX TMIC Racerxengineering.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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