rao Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 The purpose of this thread is to discuss Street Tuner and related issues inone easy to find place. Now that there are several of us who are actively using ST, this is a good place to share information. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Sticky Hope to have more to share soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasopoliS Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 I am thinking about getting ST, even though I do not have tuning experience. I have a friend that has tuned MANY turbo cars and says the basic stuff is the same (timing, boost control, WGDC, etc). I think once he looks over the COBB tuning guide, and I get a stg II ST map for him to start with... he can road tune my LGT with a WB AFR (maybe even one that can be used with ST). What are your thoughts on this? The guy actually is a service manager at a Subaru dealer and is on this forum (srt'd). He is really smart when it comes to tuning and built his amazing SRT-4 from the ground up and tuned it himself. I would think he can figure it out. It is only $195 right? That seems like a good deal since 1 tune alone costs that at most tuners. This can do everything they could do right? The only drawback is I can only run ST maps. What about using the ST software on other AP's / other vehicles? Like if someone had a 05 WRX - could I unmarry ST from my AP - and remarry to another AP for another car? In the meantime I can maybe run my stage II protune map until I get ST back and married to my car? On the ST guide it just says it can only be used on 1 car at a time. EDIT: DUH. As soon as I unmarry the ST from the other car (so I can get my tune back) - they will lose their tune. Its a flip-flop. No way around it. Oh well my buddy will spend the $200 once my car gets tuned. Someone should host the maps that are floating around here - in one location - with a 'use at your own risk' warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasopoliS Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Also, for those who use a WB and import it into the software.... how close are the values with the stock narrowband? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 subscribed Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 You can only use ST on one car - it is linked to the car's ecu. You can share ST maps among crs that are the same year and transmission. The factory front O2 sensor and a wideband will be within a tenth of a poinit of one another from 11.2 to around 16.0. I posted the exact numbers in another thread. The ST software is good, but it just software; if someone understands the principles of tuning with similar induction (turbo, supercharger, NA) they can tune a Subaru just as well as any other car (and the forced induction stuff is not all that complicated either). Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasopoliS Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 You can only use ST on one car - it is linked to the car's ecu. You can share ST maps among crs that are the same year and transmission. The factory front O2 sensor and a wideband will be within a tenth of a poinit of one another from 11.2 to around 16.0. I posted the exact numbers in another thread. The ST software is good, but it just software; if someone understands the principles of tuning with similar induction (turbo, supercharger, NA) they can tune a Subaru just as well as any other car (and the forced induction stuff is not all that complicated either). Thanks. That is exactly what the guy told me (srt'd). Its the principles of tuning. It seems that if the narrowband reads within 1/10th of a point within that range, that is sufficient. Or am I wrong? If you are lower than 11.2.... you will get less accurate readings... but essentially you are rich and at that point that is all that matters. Same with the high end. Above 16 is too lean, and at that point I just want to richen up (don't care the exact value). What is your target AFR? Stage II I think I am low 11's... but I think closer to 12 might be more ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted September 20, 2006 Author Share Posted September 20, 2006 The stock O2 sensor stops at 11.2, it will just keep reading 11.2. On the lean side you will not need to worry. My targets are a little higher then typical becaue of water injecton, but 12.0 is not bad under WOT. Stage 2 you are probably actually in the mid 10's at WOT. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 when i had my car Protuned the base was 252 hp/269 tq with the standard Cobb stage 2 93. the a/f was 13.4 @6500. when Jorge was done it was 260 hp/294 tq with a 12.1 a/f @6500 all runs where 100 to 103 degrees f @ 31% humidity. i'm sure he changed more than just fuel. just sharing info. bosco Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted September 21, 2006 Author Share Posted September 21, 2006 13.4 is pretty lean. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 13.4 is pretty lean. thats what he said. as he adjusted car you could actually hear the tone change when he richened it up. the car sounded more powerful. i posted the info to confirm what you stated about AFR's. when you use your Street Tuner software do you data log and then make your adjustments by that? bosco Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted September 21, 2006 Author Share Posted September 21, 2006 Yep. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 i'm thinking of getting ST too. The gas worth of a trip to my tuner would pay for the ST. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 You cant just look at the $195 sticker of the ST. Its $195 + $200 for a wideband +40 for a serial –USB + this +that. Trust me it adds up. Don’t forget a new engine is $5k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 for me it's 195+ was gonna buy a wideband anywyas + already have usb --> serial for datalogging + already have most of this and that I'm gonna try and figure out a way to amke my car my senior project. Another kid in my class is using a turbo and making it into a jet engine....so I'm gonna do somethign similar....maybe My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian. Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 We have also set up a special Legacy GT StreetTUNER section on our new forums = http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=106 We have hosted all calibrations in StreetTUNER format so you have something to start with. You are welcome to host, swap, or talk about LGT calibrations there as well. Take care, Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasopoliS Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 We have also set up a special Legacy GT StreetTUNER section on our new forums = http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=106 We have hosted all calibrations in StreetTUNER format so you have something to start with. You are welcome to host, swap, or talk about LGT calibrations there as well. Take care, Christian. Thanks for jumping in. With more and more people using it and sharing maps... you will get more sales. It seems to be talked more about these days. Especially after the price drop. So a WB is definite huh? OK. I wanted to get one anyway... but when I heard the accuracy of the narrowband I was quite impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 for me it's 195+ was gonna buy a wideband anywyas + already have usb --> serial for datalogging + already have most of this and that You need 2, 1 for the wideband and 1 for the OBD + a USB hub unless your laptop can take 3 usb devices (ST uses a USB key). All im saying is its not an easy $195 and you are off an running. Its been a PITA for me to get it up and running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosco Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 i have a question. first go to post #9 where i told of my Protune experience vs Cobb stage2 93 map v1.15. you will see that with the Cobb stage 2 93 map i was running lean after the Protune it was richer. (i am sure Jorge tuned more than just the fuel) my question is, the Cobb maps are suppose to error on the safe side if this is true why would'nt the AFR be rich to start? isn't it safer to be a tad on the rich side on all cars? bosco Stay Stock Stay Happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tytek Posted September 24, 2006 Share Posted September 24, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0032 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Very interesting thread here. Basicaly if you have the $400 ST you are going to get an upgrade http://www.cobbforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30461 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasopoliS Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 thanks. I will keep my eye on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugblatterbeast Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 Thanks for jumping in. With more and more people using it and sharing maps... you will get more sales. It seems to be talked more about these days. Especially after the price drop. So a WB is definite huh? OK. I wanted to get one anyway... but when I heard the accuracy of the narrowband I was quite impressed. Personally I wouldn't risk road tuning without a wideband. You can get the LC-1 for $130-150 and the sensors are around $40. I have to disagree with the claimed accuracy of the narrow band sensor. Narrow band sensors have a temperature dependance which can't be easily compensated for. When I data log, I can get a few pulls where the NB and WB readings agree. If I get the sensor really hot or let it cool off enough the two disagree. Also, up here our gas is chocked full of MMT. After a few thousand km, the NB sensor will start to get an offset in its calibration due to the MnOx coatings on the sensor tip. I only install my WB sensor for tuning for this reason. There are a couple gotchas when it comes to using the LC1 with street tuner. These are the one's I've found so far: 1) make sure the usb to serial convertors go into the same slots each time so the configured com ports are correct. I've found that if they are wrong, you can't get the setup working by changing the settings in ST. It just hangs and crashes if the settings on start up don't match with what's plugged in. 2) don't insert or remove the cables after ST is running. For some reason, the SW hangs if this is done even if Live tuning is not turned on yet. 3) when setting up a dashboard in ST, I've found that I need to have some ecu logged parameter displayed in addition to the LM1/LC1 AFR trace. I don't know why this is byt the AFR trace shows nothing unless another parameter, logged through the OBDII port, is displayed. I normally use RPM 4) If you use the LC1 programmer tool to figure out which port the LC1 is on, you need to power cycle the LC1 before it will be recognised by ST or logworks. 5) Don't use the LC1 firmware upgrade. I've been told that the new firware is not compatible with ST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugblatterbeast Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 i have a question. first go to post #9 where i told of my Protune experience vs Cobb stage2 93 map v1.15. you will see that with the Cobb stage 2 93 map i was running lean after the Protune it was richer. (i am sure Jorge tuned more than just the fuel) my question is, the Cobb maps are suppose to error on the safe side if this is true why would'nt the AFR be rich to start? isn't it safer to be a tad on the rich side on all cars? bosco probably car to car variation in the MAF cal. Under light loads, the AFR is set to lambda 1 and the car can make some corrections to the fuel map using the NB o2 sensor readings. At the lower loads, only the bottom end of the maf calibration is used. As the load increases and the upper portion of the maf calibration is used and the car can not make closed loop corrections any more. The best it can do is use the corrections made to the bottom part of the maf cal curve to scale the upper portions. If the maf has different errors for the bottom and top of its calibration, you will get errors in your mixture when running open loop. it could be that the errors in your maf calibration were sufficient to make the car run a bit lean despite the map settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bskey Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Ok, so this all looks pretty forign to me. I am a noob to the LGT, and definately to tuning this in depth, but I am buyin an AP amd he has offered to throw in the Street tuner software for $100. How easy is it to learn, is that a good price, and should I even get involved if I am not too cofortable with it? Thanks for your feedback! life in spin cycle..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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