The B4 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 http://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/17/camry-ecu-wont-let-drivers-give-it-the-boot/ Oh noes... maybe the Legacy really is a Camry It seems that Toyota has a similarly adaptable ECU in its Camry, which takes cues from the driver's inputs and then operates the engine accordingly. If the driver is say, timid and easy on the throttle (not going to make generalizations about Camry drivers here) then the ECU will recognize the driver's overall character and taper back on the heavy dumping of fuel and air into the cylinders. The problem it seems, is that when said timid driver needs a boost of juice, the Camry's brain doesn't cooperate, causing driver's to complain of mild bucking and hesitation. The drive-by-wire throttle (we still like our cables, thank you) is partly to blame, as it sends the majority of information back to the ECU. Toyota released a TSB for the issue and a quick software tweak seems to solve the problem. Only owners that recognize a hesitation in acceleration are encouraged to come in for the service, though it's safe to assume that most Camry drivers won't notice a problem. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05GTMT Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Could we retrofit with a cable throttle, or is it all too integrated with the ECU these days?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 If the stuttering is real... it looks like you guys are teaching your cars to stutter. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 yes. I want to do a clutch/flywheel upgrade mainly for that reason.. Have other people who have upgraded the clutch and flywheel reported less stutter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 If the stuttering is real... it looks like you guys are teaching your cars to stutter. I have no doubt that the stuttering is real, and you're right, it does seem to be "learned" by the ECU. I've seen countless posts where people say a reflash fixes the problem for a short while, then the stutter comes back. If Subaru would admit this and hack a fix for the ECU instead of just reflashing it I would actually get that done, but for now it seems like a waste of time to take the car in for very temporary work around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_knoxville Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 If the stuttering is real... it looks like you guys are teaching your cars to stutter. wh-wh-why di-di-di-did you ha...ha....h-a-v-e to say that, b-b-b-b4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funker Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Legacy GT '06 - never had stuttering.. However, it appears this might happen when it's cold... I live in AZ... so... need I say more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05GTMT Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I have an ACT clutch and 13 lbs flywheel. If anything the studdering is worse with the lighter flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I have an ACT clutch and 13 lbs flywheel. If anything the studdering is worse with the lighter flywheel. only 13 lbs? Wow that's pretty light for street use... -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Have other people who have upgraded the clutch and flywheel reported less stutter? Some have, but not all (that I'm aware of). -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmarko Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 only 13 lbs? Wow that's pretty light for street use... What's the weight of the OEM flywheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05GTMT Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I think the stock flywheel is about 22 lbs??? perhaps 13 lbs is a little light for street use and does chatter/resonate a little; however I like the improved engine response (when it's not studdering). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I remember the guy froim Maryland Turbo reommended a 15 lb flywheel, and no lighter, for street use. If you are happy though that is all that matters. Today on my way to work, after the car warmed up, I hit the gas in second from around 2500 RPM and got two BIG buckings before the car finally accepted the fact that the turbo should kick in or something. This is really pissing me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilowatt Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 2005 LGT STG II TDC Stock= no stutter Cobb STG I= stutter (for brief couple of days I tried it) TDC STG II=no stutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal2You Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 2005 LGT STG II TDC Stock= no stutter Cobb STG I= stutter (for brief couple of days I tried it) TDC STG II=no stutter How long have you been running the TDC stage II map? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilowatt Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Since June 06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmarko Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Since June 06 Hmmmm. Can other Stg II people chime in who have had the stuttering problem with how Stg II has been working for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_knoxville Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 i read somewhere once that this is related to humid air being compressed at the onset of boost, but i can't remember exactly what it said or where i read that. i don't think its unique to lgt's, but i could be mistaken. this seems to support my belief that this is not unique to lgt's: http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=62145 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05GTMT Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 I have been experimenting with trying to 'train' the studder out of the ECU. First thing was to find a repeatable scenario where the studder was worst. In my car If I accelerate with engine under load (i.e. up a hill) in 2nd or 3rd gear then the studder is most noticeable as the RPM moves from 2k to 3k (feels like 4 of 5 miss fires, but a little milder than a real miss fire would be). Yesterday I kept accelerating under this condition over and over again and noticed the studder slowly got reduced (after about 30 times). After about 50 repeated studders the engine started pulling quite smoothly (not perfect, but much better than before). Now under normal driving the car appeared to accelerate with smoothness for about 100 miles but then the studder started to creep back again as the ECU started it relearn it's flawed logic. This is somewhat similar to how the studder creeps back after you do an ECU reset (or AP re flash). I'm not sure what this means, other than the fact it must be ECU related. Obviously it's not a cure to hammer the car under repeated accelerations (expect 12 mpg while doing this) to get rid of the studder for just 100 miles or so, but I'd be interested if others have the same experience. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05GTMT Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 john_knoxville: very interesting link!! Hmmm, I hope it is simply a miss-fire due to bad plugs. I may return my car to the dealer and just describe the issue as a miss-fire rather than a hesitation/stutter/studder. Car and driver mentioned they had to replace a sparkplug on their long term Legacy GT test car at 29-30k (page 102 Aug 2006 edition of Car and Driver). I can't believe I've lived with this issue for 25k now!!!! Every other car I drive old and new feels silky smooth in comparison. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_knoxville Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Every other car I drive old and new feels silky smooth in comparison. what % of those cars were turbocharged? in same climate as you drive now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe05GTMT Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 john_: I've only test driven the Mazdaspeed6 and a Saab turbo in the same climate and they were both smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmorgan Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 I dot know if this helps at all or not. A couple days ago I pulled the air filter out to check how it was doing, and to also clean the maf sensor since I noticed there was more than expected oil in the intake and my milage is getting poor. Well, being lazy, I decided not to put the filter back in, that I'd just wait to get a new one. Before doing this I had no signs of stuttering, just poor gas milage. But now, If I hold highway speed (about 50-60) at about 2300 rpm, the car feels like it surges and hiccups non-stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGJon Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 Yep. Since day one. 3K on it now, AP will arrive next week. Will see if that helps. It won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I dot know if this helps at all or not. A couple days ago I pulled the air filter out to check how it was doing, and to also clean the maf sensor since I noticed there was more than expected oil in the intake and my milage is getting poor. Well, being lazy, I decided not to put the filter back in, that I'd just wait to get a new one. Before doing this I had no signs of stuttering, just poor gas milage. But now, If I hold highway speed (about 50-60) at about 2300 rpm, the car feels like it surges and hiccups non-stop. ^ I'm not sure I understand completely - you mean that you're now running without an air-filter at all? ---- It won't. ^ Not necessarily so. For some, going with either off-the-shelf Cobb maps and/or with semi-custom/custom Street/ProTUNE maps have helped significantly or even completely eliminated this issue. This remains a variable - and reports to both successes (complete or partial) and failures have been documented repeatedly here on this Forum. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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