RaceComp Engineering Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 As we close in on the release of our lowering springs for the STi, we wanted to "gauge interest" and get opinions on producing a similar product for the Legacy. There seems to be a couple of "types" out there who want certain things from their lowering spring, especially the LGT owners. This car comes out of the box with struts with a good amount of potential, yet its easy to go in the wrong direction with this suspension. Here is a joking and semi-joking explanation of what some want. Auto crossers: want 350/400 and 25mm drop. Posers: want 225/250 50mm drop ( http://images.nasioc.com/forums/images/smilies/lol.gif ) Average guy ( autocrosses 5 times a year, track 2 times) 290/390 w/25mm dr. The "I want my cake and eat it too" guy...350/380 with 5 stage progressive. and 23mm drop with 28mm front drop. Built in camber plates and caster potential up to 8.0 degrees. http://images.nasioc.com/forums/images/smilies/lol.gif We are excited because we are NOT copying other rates, and yet using our experience to help develop something that will work well and bridge the gap between cheap coilovers and ones that offer an advantage. Pinks work well, but many outgrow them within a year. Then people go to SOFT coilovers and need more. So we figured it was time to "explore" a little and that we have done for the last YEAR. Part of this means testing and driving ALOT of cars and never knowing whats on my car or the other shop cars. It means alot of pot holes and taking apart some stock struts. It meant buying other brands without others knowing http://images.nasioc.com/ubb-files/smilies/lildevil.gif . It meant seeing whats out there. You cant be in this business and have blinders on. We did that for a short, short time and learned from it. Our aim now is to bring the best solutions to the market for a wide range of end users. Stay tuned !! Oh, and your feedback please. Myles Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 If you sold something like the Tommy Kaira springs but at 75% of their cost, I'd jump on those. (basically a 20mm drop that uprated over factory springs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 I would assume that most people prefer a bit more drop in the front than the rear, is that safe to say? We don't plan on getting too aggressive with the drop because these springs will be designed to place an emphasis on performance rather than just looks. -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 just a bit of drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wangspeed Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 25mm drop seems like too much with stock shocks. Even with better shocks, you'll still be riding on the rear bumpstops. 350/400 would probably be too much front bias. 300/400 would be better, but even still, those kind of rear rates aren't enough to keep the front inside tires planted. My opinion is that for a proper solution, you can't do it without offering both shocks and springs, and the springs would have to be significantly stiffer in the back to pull off any decent handling of cars that are truely driven 9/10th or 10/10ths. Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Thanks Warren, that's exactly the type of feedback we are looking for. We may end up doing what we plan to do for the STi, which is offer one option that provides rates that are suitable for the stock struts and another option with higher rates that are meant to be used with upgraded struts. -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 If you offer stiffer linear rates than pinks with about the same ride height the pinks offer, that would be pretty cool. -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 If you offer stiffer linear rates than pinks with about the same ride height the pinks offer, that would be pretty cool. The Tommy Kaira springs are almost exactly what you described. Stiffer than the Pinks but with 5mm more of a drop. Check out Japanparts.com Only problem is that they are even more pricey than pinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexster Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I would be very interested in a strut/spring/tophat combo setup that would make real improvements but still cost less than good coilovers. I was planning on doing something like konis, swifts, and maybe MSI adjustable top hats in the spring. but if you can come up with something better I'll gladly support the local guy!!! I guess i fall into the "average guy" category. I want a fairly mild drop (15-25mm), some camber and caster adjustability would be great, and I am willing to tollerate a reasonably stiffer ride quality. Stiffer than stock is ok, and stiffer than stock with pinks is ok. but it's still a daily driver and I don't want to knock out any lose fillings on my way to work. And if you can talk Whiteline into making the Group 4s for the Legacy I'm willing to go straight to coilovers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted August 15, 2006 Author Share Posted August 15, 2006 We would like to offer a spring/strut combo, we just need to figure out which strut would be best suited for the spring rates we choose. Obviously the ride will be stiffer than stock, but we are aiming to make it much less bouncy as well. Basically our goal is to design a spring that optimizes handling without killing your ride quality. With our STi application, we managed to create a spring with rates that are higher than just about anything else on the market, while maintaining a comfortable ride for everyday use. Just to give you all an idea, here's a link to a review written by a customer who drove our shop STi with our springs installed on stock struts: Unofficial RCE spring review of sorts - IWSTI.com -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 What about the Tokico shocks that a lot of people are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wangspeed Posted August 15, 2006 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Dan if you want it to ride better than anything else out there, make sure it has proper shock valving (which the Tokicos are probably borderline on), and that the suspension has enough travel. You could start by removing the stock strut (f) / shock ®, and then put the wheel back on, and then move the wheel to wherever you want the ride height. Record clearances, and then move the wheel up to simulate bump. Measure at first sign of interference. Then you'll have to reverse engineer what sort of load you expect for daily and track which will allow proper use of the bumpstops. Calculating the leverage that the arms have on the strut/shock motion would also be nice. I don't think anyone has done this on the LGT, or at least they haven't made it public knowledge. I'll take a SWAG that somewhere near 300F / 425R, slightly progressive at the appropriate height plus good struts and shocks like Konis will ride better than most people would think. Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specinvstr Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted August 23, 2006 Author Share Posted August 23, 2006 Keep it coming folks, we would love to have your input on this! -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Based off the review I would highly be interested Click Here everyday:redface: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I would like to have more drop in front than in the rear!!! Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EL PAALO Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 more drop in front than rear. make something for the wagon too. swifts with stock struts atm. good, but considering alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specinvstr Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 I would like to have more drop in front than in the rear!!! Kelly +1, but minimal, just so it does not look like the rear is squatting because of the subaru design...not a raked stance. Something street friendly that will help on the track. Would be nice if you could recommend some struts that they would work well with too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 Yes, we do plan to have slightly more drop in the front than the rear, probably an extra 3 or 4mm. I think the more important issue is determining what rates will work well in track and auto-x situations, while still being plenty comfortable for the street. As far as struts, we have had a lot of success with the Spec B Bilsteins, although the Ohlins fixed perch are simply outstanding. We have sold countless sets of the Ohlins to STi and WRX owners and have gotten rave reviews from them. In fact, we are designing an STi spring specifically for use with the Ohlins struts, perhaps we could look into doing the same for the Legacy if there is enough interest. -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I want my LGT wagon to ride and handle like a BMW 3-series with sport suspension. Is that too much to ask? I've been planning on going with the Koni struts but I'm not sure of what springs I should use. I have a 14mo old so I need to pass the wife test. Please help me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul_Good Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Is there Ohlins fixed struts available for our cars?? If so you got a link? How much better would these be over the Ver.A Spec B struts-Im assuming ALOT-? Also, how well will these springs you're developing work with the Bilsteins? Thanx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specinvstr Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Yes, we do plan to have slightly more drop in the front than the rear, probably an extra 3 or 4mm. I think the more important issue is determining what rates will work well in track and auto-x situations, while still being plenty comfortable for the street. As far as struts, we have had a lot of success with the Spec B Bilsteins, although the Ohlins fixed perch are simply outstanding. We have sold countless sets of the Ohlins to STi and WRX owners and have gotten rave reviews from them. In fact, we are designing an STi spring specifically for use with the Ohlins struts, perhaps we could look into doing the same for the Legacy if there is enough interest. -Dan Thanks Dan. Sounds like you are considering developing the type of spring I am looking for. Any thoughts on estimated price range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 The Ohlins Legacy struts are coming in 30-60 days MAX. They will be THE strut to have once they officially hit the market. We will be the exclusive US dealer for these struts. The Spec B Bilsteins are nice struts as well but these are just on another level. If you do a search for them on Nasioc or IWSTI you will see what I'm talking about. Ohlins struts with our springs will certainly be BMW 3-series material, if not better. We will do an official announcement tomorrow, but expect pricing to be similar to the Spec B struts. For those that don't want coilovers, I am convinced that the Ohlins/RCE Spring combo will be the ultimate solution for handling and comfort in a daily driver and will also be very capable on the track and auto-x. We obviously have an idea of what we want to do as far as spring rates but we have found that it's best to ask the customers what they want in a spring. After all, you are the ones who will be living with them on a daily basis. Stay tuned to the vendor section for updates on the Ohlins, I'm putting together a press release for tomorrow. -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceComp Engineering Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 Thanks Dan. Sounds like you are considering developing the type of spring I am looking for. Any thoughts on estimated price range? I can't quote prices in this thread, but feel free to PM me if you would like pricing info. -Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul_Good Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Say I just could afford the Ohlins struts for now.... would they work well with the STI Pinks? I know your RCE springs would be a better choice for it, but for money savings would the Ohlins+Pinks be significantly better than SpecB+Pinks? Thanks again. Lookin forward to the press release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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