Wait....this makes no sense

[SLegacy99]

I just saw that the 2.5i limited is not available in 5 speed manual. This doesnt make sense to me. I mean this is the car company that only offers the Spec B. in a manual transmission. I dont get it.

I guess you could argue that people who could afford the Limited trim of the 2.5i would only want an automatic, but still the Spec. B. is the best of them all. Same with the STi. I feel like we're going backwards.

[SLegacy99]

I understood why they would take it out of the wagon, but not the sedan.

[lookslikeanevo]

Spec-b, STI, EVO, mazdaspeeds, SI's, type-s, M-series, all dont come in auto...

 

people buy these cars for a reason... and 98% the car would not be the same if it was auto.

 

why do youthink were going backwards?

 

those manual trannies are built to be a beast on their own, and when they are design they have one thing on their mind, sportiness...but of course, DSG and the like are also getting popular, as more and more sports cars have them...rumor is the EVO X will have DSG...

[Adamaxus]

Spec-b, STI, EVO, mazdaspeeds, SI's, type-s, M-series, all dont come in auto...

 

people buy these cars for a reason... and 98% the car would not be the same if it was auto.

 

why do youthink were going backwards?

 

those manual trannies are built to be a beast on their own, and when they are design they have one thing on their mind, sportiness...but of course, DSG and the like are also getting popular, as more and more sports cars have them...rumor is the EVO X will have DSG...

 

i don't know how much of a 'manual' i'd consider the SMG that BMW makes for the M series cars. Ya you change the gears and all..but no 3rd pedal. i don't care that it can change gears faster than anyones foot

[lookslikeanevo]

i don't know how much of a 'manual' i'd consider the SMG that BMW makes for the M series cars. Ya you change the gears and all..but no 3rd pedal. i don't care that it can change gears faster than anyones foot

 

the newer M's are the ones that have that no?..were not all the older m's were manual like pre 2002? .sorry i dont have extensive knwledge on that subject

[Adamaxus]

the newer M's are the ones that have that no?..were not all the older m's were manual like pre 2002? .sorry i dont have extensive knwledge on that subject

 

either do i, but i think it's just the M5 with the SMG, i'm pretty sure you can still get an M3 with the 3 pedals. i'd just thought i'd point it out for fun, you know.

[t0ad]

They've pretty much always offered autos with the M-series cars, mainly for the old retired farts that can't work a clutch anymore but still want the M for bragging rights

 

edit: hell, some of the new luxury sports sedans (IS350 for instance) are coming in auto only. I figure within the next 5-10 years, the clutch pedal will be all but gone from automobiles.

[SQC049]

either do i, but i think it's just the M5 with the SMG, i'm pretty sure you can still get an M3 with the 3 pedals. i'd just thought i'd point it out for fun, you know.

 

 

The E46 M3 came in a 6 speed or SMG. The new M5 and M6 come with the SMG only. The thing is sweet, 7 speed etc. The new M coupe comes in 6 speed only. I have seen rumors that the new M3 will have both tranny choices.

 

Now the fun. The M6 and M5 this year will have a real 6 speed option in America only!

 

Hope this clears it up for you guys.

[SLegacy99]

 

edit: hell, some of the new luxury sports sedans (IS350 for instance) are coming in auto only.

 

Right. Which I think is stupid. Would I want an SL55 in auto? Nope. But thats the only way it comes.

Why do I think we're going backwards? Well in 97, the GT was offered in 5MT for the first time, then in 99 the started producing Limited models in 5MT. Then of course the Spec B. Finally, one can only get the limited version of the impreza in an automatic. Now, we;re back to offering more autos.

I actually wanna see America become more like Europe. We are 11% manual transmission and Europe is 80%. Theyre saving gas by shifting on their own.

[TravisS]

Right. Which I think is stupid. Would I want an SL55 in auto? Nope. But thats the only way it comes.

Why do I think we're going backwards? Well in 97, the GT was offered in 5MT for the first time, then in 99 the started producing Limited models in 5MT. Then of course the Spec B. Finally, one can only get the limited version of the impreza in an automatic. Now, we;re back to offering more autos.

I actually wanna see America become more like Europe. We are 11% manual transmission and Europe is 80%. Theyre saving gas by shifting on their own.

Nah, they're saving gas by driving diesels and tiny displacement petrol engines. Most of these small engined cars come with manuals because, well, they'e a small economy car and that's how they come.

 

I do agree that an automatic is not necessarily the right direction... or at least a 4 speed automatic. 5 speed autos really are becoming the norm. Both the Accord and Camry (not really the Legacy's competition, but whatever) come standard with a 5 speed auto even on the base models.

 

Really, the proper direction is CVT. I have to commend Nissan for providing a CVT in a car like the Maxima. Typically that's technology restricted to low horsepower, low performance vehicles like the Prius.

[SLegacy99]

Yeah I saw today that the Chevy Colorado has a 4 spd. auto. Whats up with that? They know the benefits of having more gears. Silly.

[Vimy101]

Americans want their Walmarts and their automatic transmissions so they can talk on the phone while doing their make up and eating Crispy Cremes as they go to pick up some Chinese made crap. Any idiot can drive/own a car in America.

 

Let's face reality. "America", for the most part, is not a very sophisticated society and is, in fact, quite provincial.

 

I love my 5MT! Call me un"American" if you will but I just love it!

[Guest]

^^^ Really like your comment +1

 

"Unsophisticated" is my favorite euphemism.

 

So yeah no manual in 2.5 Lmitied. Funny, I just noticed that few minutes ago, too. Never cared about 2.5i, but now I am kinda shopping for a sedan one for my wife, and while I am not fan of leather in car I'd like to car to come with CD changer, heated mirrors, etc. Always easier to swap the leather seats to cloth ones, then to install other goodies.

 

It goes without saying my wife will not touch slushbox in a car.

 

Oh, well I can live with 2.5i not being offered with manual in every trim, but not offering GT Wagon with manual is a crime.

 

F**K you SOA!!!!! :jedi:

[Guest]

I understood why they would take it out of the wagon, but not the sedan.

 

You understand? I don't. It's stupid. Especially that competion (e.g. Mazda, Audi) have no problem offering manuals in wagons.

[jerami1981]

Spec-b, STI, EVO, mazdaspeeds, SI's, type-s, M-series, all dont come in auto...

 

people buy these cars for a reason... and 98% the car would not be the same if it was auto.

 

why do youthink were going backwards?

 

those manual trannies are built to be a beast on their own, and when they are design they have one thing on their mind, sportiness...but of course, DSG and the like are also getting popular, as more and more sports cars have them...rumor is the EVO X will have DSG...

 

i think he is saying we are going backwards because we are taking AWAY the manual tranny option....making automatic the only way to go is not good. He is not complaining about our manual transmissions and thinks we need to have them available in all of the cars, not just a select few.

[lookslikeanevo]

^oh i misunderstood him then...sorry...

[STi Boy]

i enjoy both auto and manual, doesnt bother me at all... i love how ppl get so touchy when it comes to stick vs. auto

[Guest]

i enjoy both auto and manual, doesnt bother me at all... i love how ppl get so touchy when it comes to stick vs. auto

 

Yeah, but notice - noone says "ban automatics". Just make the manuals available, that's all.

[SLegacy99]

You understand? I don't. It's stupid. Especially that competion (e.g. Mazda, Audi) have no problem offering manuals in wagons.

 

Right, but my logic is that more people buy a wagon for family use, not the sportiness. Now, obviously this is not true in all cases. However, if you take a car like the 2.5i, well Ive grown accustomed to my leather and sunroof but will never go back to the automatic transmission. Especially a 4 speed.

[SLegacy99]

... and thinks we need to have them available in all of the cars, not just a select few.

 

Exactly. My '96 GT, first year of the EJ25, no 5 speed. But after that they left them out of the Limiteds and some outbacks. It took my 9 months to get my hands on a BD GT. Everytime I found one, it would be sold. They are in high demand. Lucky for me, I eventually found a limited.

[IwannaSportSedan]

No one's going to blast Unclemat for his outburst at SOA?

 

I say similar things, usually without swearing as loud, and I've been hammered on multiple occasions. interesting.

 

I do agree that Manual transmissions should be available more than they are. But I am not so sure I would go so far to agree with the animosity toward the american public as a whole.

 

I think it is more that companies either don't care to cater to sportiness as much as we would like, or are cutting costs to the bone. SOA has been accused of both. By me and others.

 

Sure there are the negligent drivers, and I dislike that behavior as much as anyone.

 

The American Culture is not unsophisticated as a whole. It only tends to be tolerant of unsophisticates.

 

(like ones who scream obscenities on public forums, maybe. I'm not judging, I am just sayin' that complaining about unsophistication, and promptly swearing is a bit suspect.)

 

I don't know why they eliminated the Manual transmission on the 2.5i Limited. I guess they figure the 2.5i SE is the more sport oriented of the 2.5i models, and if someone wants amenities AND sport, they are more likely to go with the GT Limited anyway.

 

Personally, I have said, and still think, that SOA is too focused on cutting costs rather than adding value to create sales and revenues at the prices they already have.

 

There are two ways to increase profit margins. Cut the costs embedded in the product or service, or increase the value and further promote the product or service. The latter seems like a better way to sell cars, and SOA seems to be mired in the former.

 

Offer manual transmissions in ALL body styles and drivetrain options of the Legacy. One knows that the Automatic transmissions aren't going anywhere, and most people buy them for convenience. (a recent study says that people are less enthusiastic about driving, and at the same time, traffic congestion and delays have been skyrocketing over the same most recent 15 year period... Coincidence with Automatic transmission sales? I think not.)

 

It isn't a Subaru only problem. Most car companies in the US barely sell manual transmissions, because they don't sell well. Nevermind that companies try to cut costs by not offering them, or at least not offering them with high trim levels. (looked at a FWD FoMoCo product lately, aside from maybe a Focus? Fusion and Milan don't offer manual trans with the bigger engine and amenities. LS didn't offer one with the V8 either. Imagine a 540 BMW without a manual trans option. They would be screaming, like they did with the M5...

 

I chalk it up at least as much to corporate "bean-counting committee think" than to an unsophisticated buying public. Sure there is less demand for manuals in cars, especially ones with more than two doors. That doesn't mean that there is NO demand. Look at how many people here are disgusted with the no Manual LGT Wagon option, and how insane it is that Canada and the US OBXT still get it. How hard can Build-to-order specifications be?

[Vimy101]

"The American Culture is not unsophisticated as a whole. It only tends to be tolerant of unsophisticates."

 

NASCAR is by far the biggest racing series in the US. I rest my case. Headlight decals? LMAO!

[lookslikeanevo]

NASCAR is by far the biggest racing series in the US. I rest my case. Headlight decals? LMAO!

 

:lol:

[DKB_SATX]

Re: the question about build-to-order... that's DEFINITELY a problem with modern, instant-gratification culture. Build-to-order doesn't work well as a model for complex consumer products (and I'm considering <$50k cars as consumer products... even though cars are special to me, I can tell from the glassy stares most mouth-breathers get when enthusiasts talk about cars that they're just appliances to LOTS of people.) The reason build-to-order is an issue is that instant gratification problem.

 

Lots of people don't even plan to buy a car when they end up with a new one... they were "just going to look" and some car salesman talks them into something that's on the lot. Even fewer people are willing to search or wait for exactly what they want... remember that we are NOT representative of the population here, because we're passionate about a low-volume car to have a whole web forum about it and we use lots of bytes detailing how to turn off DRLs and such.

 

A coworker of mine has ordered an A4 Avant 2.0T. He had to order it because he wants a 6spd and his wife wouldn't approve of the colors on the 2 6spds they could find anywhere close. He had to get an A4 because she doesn't like the looks of any of HIS initial choices (FXT, LGT Wagon.) He swears it's his car and his decision (she has a MINI Cooper S convertible) but it seems to me she's running the show, though that's off topic for this discussion.

 

At any rate, he has to wait until early October to get the car. That's just not normal, most Americans want it right now, and if you ever watch "King of Cars" you can see that car sales types don't believe you're ever going to buy if you don't buy today, they don't want you to leave.

 

More evidence that we're not normal (or at least that I'm not) is that I pretty much decided to buy my car before I finished the test drive, since I'd already driven the A3 that day, but I didn't buy it that day. Partially it was to give myself time to think it over, and partially it was just out of spite for car salesmen who push you to buy buy buy now now now. (Full disclosure: Jerry Dunn at Northpark Subaru in San Antonio, TX did *NOT* push me to buy right then and was very cooperative about the whole thing, I recommend him.)

 

I absolutely will not buy another new Legacy if I can't get a manual transmission, high-performance wagon. I've told Subaru marketing types via email (not that I expect that to make a difference) and it's a sore spot with me, but I realize a huge part of the market couldn't care less if they tried.

[SLegacy99]

I dunno, it would make sense to me that gas prices go up, save that gas and get a manual trans. But I think what Americans dont realize is that gas prices will never be cheap again. This isnt like the shortages of the 70s where prices eventually went back down to nothing compared to today.