mwiener2 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I spent an entire weekend redoing all my gaskets to make sure they didn't leak. Got a new set of Copper Gaskets from Crucial. 1 month later, I can hear my UP leaking again, but only when cold. This is the last try. Gonna retorque it and see if that's all it needs. If not, I'm either gonna try two OEM gaskets so there's a little room to flex, or I'm gonna get an entirely new UP with a flex section. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Go OEM. -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Dude.. I feel your pain. I honestly think the best fix for this is a header uppipe combo. It was also suggested to me try have the surfaces machine matched I guess you could say. Thats a lot of working though that still might not fix the problem. When I get like $700 I will be buying a new header that comes with a uppipe, 3 bolt flange style.. and I will get them coated. Thats the best combo for non leaks, power and no problems.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 OH, just to let you know too I have a flex uppipe. I have a turbo XS uppipe and I am having leaks. I have a new gasket, I am going to try it again. I was also told that if you tighten the bolts too tight that because of the extreme heat through these parts it can warp your flange, leaving you with a permanent leak.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I'm on my second leak with the crucial up/OEM gaskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLTek Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 to oem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Dude.. I feel your pain. I honestly think the best fix for this is a header uppipe combo. It was also suggested to me try have the surfaces machine matched I guess you could say. Thats a lot of working though that still might not fix the problem. When I get like $700 I will be buying a new header that comes with a uppipe, 3 bolt flange style.. and I will get them coated. Thats the best combo for non leaks, power and no problems.. +1000 Those Crucial-coated GT Spec's that TDC has for $650 are looking pretty good to you too, huh. ???Luckily??? for me I'm probably about to relocate so that's going to help me hold off spending the money for a little while. That and who knows what kind of good shite will be out in the next year. This is old and I'm sure everyone's seen it, but anyway.... http://www.speedstylesound.com/headers/ Experience is something you don't get until right after you needed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I'm on my second leak with the crucial up/OEM gaskets. How's that go.....? fool me once.... shame on you.... fool me twice......................... we can't get fooled again - George W. Bush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 still have the leak. going to get headers. I was considering it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxx Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I'm on my second leak with the crucial up/OEM gaskets. Dude, mine leaked like 3 times. 1 with crucial's crappy copper gaskets & 2 more times with OEM gaskets. I dumped the crucial UP for an STI UP with OEM gaskets & haven't had a problem since. I love my crucial DP but that UP was terrible. "Barack Obama, mothaf#%@a! Barack Obama! I'm the president...of hittin' the ass!" -this is not a political view it's merely a quote from a hilarious tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 crucial sells the fact that the coating helps with spool and reduces heatsoak. Did you notice any changes when you went to the STI up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxx Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 ^^the only change I noticed was it didn't leak anymore Seriously, it was the same thing. No better performance from one to the other. Much better fit with the sti. Coating schmoating. The sti has a heatshield & that's good enough for me. I dont think the coating does anything as far as helping spool. "Barack Obama, mothaf#%@a! Barack Obama! I'm the president...of hittin' the ass!" -this is not a political view it's merely a quote from a hilarious tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 those STI up heatshields are know to come loose and rattle. keep an ear out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxx Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 never had a problem with rattling for like 5,000 miles. I will keep an ear out tho. Thanks for the heads up. "Barack Obama, mothaf#%@a! Barack Obama! I'm the president...of hittin' the ass!" -this is not a political view it's merely a quote from a hilarious tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 what about the stage 8 locking kit? i've heard that alot of the leaking problems come from not retourqe'n the up pipe bots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxx Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 here's the problem I have with the locking kit. How come everyone else's UPs don't need that?? How come nobody but crucial suggests retorquing? There's a problem with crucial up fitment as far as I'm concerned. People can agree or not & I'm sure you'll hear plenty of people saying they're fine but I'm very happy with my STI up. "Barack Obama, mothaf#%@a! Barack Obama! I'm the president...of hittin' the ass!" -this is not a political view it's merely a quote from a hilarious tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 what about the stage 8 locking kit? i've heard that alot of the leaking problems come from not retourqe'n the up pipe bots. To me, a retorque is needed with or without the locking kit. It's more about "breaking in" the gaskets etc. after a few heat cycles than it is about nuts backing off. FYI, you can get the basically the same Stage 8® kit (nine 10mm-1.25 nuts with locks and clips) from Summit or Jegs for $30. It's not "Subaru specific" with the little bent tab and two new bolts, but it is basically everything you need short of a couple of new bolts for the UP-to-manifold connection. Experience is something you don't get until right after you needed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 To me, a retorque is needed with or without the locking kit. It's more about "breaking in" the gaskets etc. after a few heat cycles than it is about nuts backing off. ^ +1. This is how I view retorquing, too. Most automotive maintenance/guides typically say this about any type of exhaust-side work. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxx Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 it prob is a good idea to retorque but it's not always necessary. With crucial it seems it's absolutely necessary "Barack Obama, mothaf#%@a! Barack Obama! I'm the president...of hittin' the ass!" -this is not a political view it's merely a quote from a hilarious tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 ^ With the Crucial, I think it becomes "absolutely necessary" simply because it's a fixed pipe - undoubtedly, it'll transmit more motion/vibrations and cause the nut to back-off a bit easier versus something that has a little play in it. However, I do also believe that re-torquing is just a good idea and good-practice outright, regardless of componentry. From all the articles I've read, both "hobbyist" as well as those which are published by various manufacturers and/or are some form of print-media (either periodical or book), they almost universally recommend re-torquing of items on this side of the exhaust, specifically to prevent against gasket burn-throughs due to loosening after the first few heat-cycles. From what I gather of my musclecar buddy, who has rebuilt, from the ground-up, many a vehicle and engine, this is pretty much his "by-Hoyle" line as well. Just my personal preference. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psucaptainkickass Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Honestly, this retorquing business to me is bull$hit. I was thinking about it, and do they retorque things at the factory? Its not like one guy on the line wrenches things down, then further down the line someone else does the same job. And its not like it is easy to get to all the bolts to retorque things. Some bolts are in a spot that if you want to retorque them, you would have to take something else off, which defeats the purpose. I think retorquing is an excuse to get people to buy things like locking kits and other similar products, and also provides an "out" for manufacturers to say "or you didn't retorque it, that's the problem." The real problem is why do you have to retorque it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I was thinking about it, and do they retorque things at the factory? Its not like one guy on the line wrenches things down, then further down the line someone else does the same job. ^ Good point! I actually hadn't thought about that! But I kid you not - just about everything I've read recommends this as standard-procedure...... <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Honestly, this retorquing business to me is bull$hit. I was thinking about it, and do they retorque things at the factory? Its not like one guy on the line wrenches things down, then further down the line someone else does the same job. And its not like it is easy to get to all the bolts to retorque things. Some bolts are in a spot that if you want to retorque them, you would have to take something else off, which defeats the purpose. I think retorquing is an excuse to get people to buy things like locking kits and other similar products, and also provides an "out" for manufacturers to say "or you didn't retorque it, that's the problem." The real problem is why do you have to retorque it in the first place. It mostly comes down to the gasket material, environment, and vibration. Most gaskets should be labeled clearly with "no retorquing needed" if they don't need it. However, that only applies to the gasket material with no effects of the environment factored in and should be changed to "no retorquing needed if you use it only in the limited way in which it was designed". The solid up strays from the design that Subaru used specifically for avoiding some of the problems solid up users experience. It's not an intentional issue created by the solid up makers, but it is a side effect that may or may not have to be dealt with by the end user. I tried every type of gasket made for the headers on my '69 Camaro but they always need to be retorqued. The engine moves, the exhaust moves, and the fact that they are secured at different points and leveraging against each other causes the fasteners to loosen. FACT: The torque specs for the material take into account NOT RUINING the material the fastener is going into while still maintaining a certain measure of retention. That's the key. The pipes on my motorcycle also have to be retorqued if they are changed, but usually only a few times the first few hundred miles and then they're set. That is with the genuine factory gasket and factory or aftermarket pipes. It is a metallic compound that is subject to expansion and contraction with heat cycling. There's a reason the phrase "your results may vary" exists. It ain't exactly a controlled environment. Experience is something you don't get until right after you needed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 ^ I learned something today! Thanks! <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbacis Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 And its not like it is easy to get to all the bolts to retorque things. Some bolts are in a spot that if you want to retorque them, you would have to take something else off, which defeats the purpose. That's what I don't get. I haven't replaced my UP yet, but I have a Crucial waiting to go in. So you have to remove the DP to get to the UP bolts right? So can you retorque the UP without removing the DP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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