bugblatterbeast Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 It mostly comes down to the gasket material, environment, and vibration. Most gaskets should be labeled clearly with "no retorquing needed" if they don't need it. However, that only applies to the gasket material with no effects of the environment factored in and should be changed to "no retorquing needed if you use it only in the limited way in which it was designed". The solid up strays from the design that Subaru used specifically for avoiding some of the problems solid up users experience. It's not an intentional issue created by the solid up makers, but it is a side effect that may or may not have to be dealt with by the end user. I tried every type of gasket made for the headers on my '69 Camaro but they always need to be retorqued. The engine moves, the exhaust moves, and the fact that they are secured at different points and leveraging against each other causes the fasteners to loosen. FACT: The torque specs for the material take into account NOT RUINING the material the fastener is going into while still maintaining a certain measure of retention. That's the key. The pipes on my motorcycle also have to be retorqued if they are changed, but usually only a few times the first few hundred miles and then they're set. That is with the genuine factory gasket and factory or aftermarket pipes. It is a metallic compound that is subject to expansion and contraction with heat cycling. There's a reason the phrase "your results may vary" exists. It ain't exactly a controlled environment. tightening order counts too. maybe that is what's causing trouble. If you tighten the manifold first then the up-pipe to turbo, you will likely end up with a leak if the manifold to up-pipe joint had a gap that gets closed when you tight the bolts there. On the other hand, if you tighten the uppipe to turbo bolts first, then the uppipe to manifold bolts and allow the tolerance stack up of the parts to align the manifold to the block before tightening it, there will be a lot less preload on all the parts involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 ok, replaced the gaskets AGAIN!!! If I took the amount of $$ I spent on gaskets and put it towards something else...i'd have something cool. Once I got the 'updated' crucial copper gaskets out, I was very dissapointed. They were squished flat. Paper flat. I coulda put some holes in any piece of metal and gotten the same results. Two bolts broke....good thing I bought extras. Slapped in Two(2) stock gaskets at the DP to Manifold connection. This is gonna work. It felt so much better simply putting it together than the copper ones ever did. The thickness of the stock gaskets is much more reassuring. I used two to make a sorta flex point. I also noticed a big difference from Crucial ver1 gaskets to ver2. The manifold to block gasket is much bigger in the ver2. The ver1 may have actually been a restriction. (the holes themselves are bigger) back out for the retighten after a warm up run... My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legacy_y_tu Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 ok, replaced the gaskets AGAIN!!! If I took the amount of $$ I spent on gaskets and put it towards something else...i'd have something cool. Once I got the 'updated' crucial copper gaskets out, I was very dissapointed. They were squished flat. Paper flat. I coulda put some holes in any piece of metal and gotten the same results. Two bolts broke....good thing I bought extras. Slapped in Two(2) stock gaskets at the DP to Manifold connection. This is gonna work. It felt so much better simply putting it together than the copper ones ever did. The thickness of the stock gaskets is much more reassuring. I used two to make a sorta flex point. I also noticed a big difference from Crucial ver1 gaskets to ver2. The manifold to block gasket is much bigger in the ver2. The ver1 may have actually been a restriction. (the holes themselves are bigger) back out for the retighten after a warm up run... Good luck man. I hear you about the gaskets too, you'd think they'd be cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 i have been told that copper gaskets dont work.. I finally got mine fixed.. my old gasket was cracked, fried, and falling apart.. I took it apart and was like, wow, no wonder i have a leak. so i put a new gasket in.. took the compression washers out, torqued it to 30 ft lbs, and i have been good to go since.. no leaks!! so this is good.. I am running a Borla header and a Turbo XS flex uppipe if any of yall are wondering.. good luck! I am using the stock gasket by the way, and I was before. I have never tried a copper one.. hopefully this one wont crack and start breaking apart.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Just get a STI uppipe with new oem gaskets and never have problems again. Trust me I went through all the same troubles, and even more then you when I had my WRX. I learned my lesson. But hey, now that I have done it enough times on my subaru's, I can do an uppipe install in about 2 hours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 ... 2 gaskets aren't going to work long term. They will leak. Sorry bucko. Sounds like you need to loose up the turbo brackets to have it "relocate" the turbo to the correct UP position. Good luck anyways....and PM me if they leak. I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deer Killer Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 2 gaskets aren't going to work long term. They will leak. Sorry bucko. Sounds like you need to loose up the turbo brackets to have it "relocate" the turbo to the correct UP position. Good luck anyways....and PM me if they leak. Why do you think so? I had to use two on both sides of my crosspipe because of tolerance issues. I'm placing my bet that they won't leak. The OEM gaskets are basically reinforced steel. It should be as strong as the manifold walls, unlike some other gaskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted July 10, 2006 Author Share Posted July 10, 2006 hogmeat...you're opinions are full of holes...just like your exhaust My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 ha ha ha.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansGT Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franklin Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I spent an entire weekend redoing all my gaskets to make sure they didn't leak. Got a new set of Copper Gaskets from Crucial. 1 month later, I can hear my UP leaking again, but only when cold. This is the last try. Gonna retorque it and see if that's all it needs. If not, I'm either gonna try two OEM gaskets so there's a little room to flex, or I'm gonna get an entirely new UP with a flex section. Where is the leak on the uppie? at the top or the bottom at the exhaust manifold? I recently installed a Crucial uppie. I used new factory gaskets, 2400 degree nickle based gasket goo. Installing and retorquing the bottom of the uppie was easy. Retorquing the uppie at the turbo ( 5 bolts) after heat cycling could only be done with the D/P removed. Otherwise you could only get to 3 of 5 bolts. I heat cycled by installing the new D/P with the old gasket and then removing the D/P and retorquing up to the turbo. The only significant retorquing needed was the 2 top uppie studs hidden by the D/P. I think this system and the high temp gasket sealer helped me avoid leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suds2250 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I installed a crucial uppipe and new OEM gaskets at both ends of the pipe. Fortunatly, I've never had a leak and have never re-torqued the nuts bolting the uppipe to the turbo. I am assuming you followed crucial's instructions for installing the uppipe? Like someone said before, the order in which things are bolted together and torqued down goes a long way to preventing leaks. Also make sure that the gasket surfaces are clean before installing. Are you using any copper spray gasket? 335HP/360Tq VF-22/1820 clone with Meth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 hogmeat...you're opinions are full of holes...just like your exhaust I feel it will leak, because your not stacking 2 flat gaskets on top - your stacking the 2 raised metal ridges only. The fact that these ridges are raised means the larger flat part is not sealed. Water and salt and moisture combined with the heat and pressure in the pipe, will eventually blow out this tiny seal (of the 2 raised ridges). oh yah, ruffles have ridges. I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Sorry to say it.... but I tend to agree with Hogmeat on this one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Retorquing the uppie at the turbo ( 5 bolts) after heat cycling could only be done with the D/P removed. Otherwise you could only get to 3 of 5 bolts. You actually can get to the two bolts that are "under" the DP by going "up from underneath" the vehicle. I'm not sure about clearance with other DPs, but this was definitely the case with my Crucial shorty DP (manual transmission). I could not fit a torque wrench under there, of course, but my smaller combination wrench definitely did fit, and I was able to hand-torque/tighten, after a bit of, er....."manipulation." <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franklin Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 You actually can get to the two bolts that are "under" the DP by going "up from underneath" the vehicle. I'm not sure about clearance with other DPs, but this was definitely the case with my Crucial shorty DP (manual transmission). I could not fit a torque wrench under there, of course, but my smaller combination wrench definitely did fit, and I was able to hand-torque/tighten, after a bit of, er....."manipulation." Good to know if I want to retorque at this point . Not sure I have the same access with the Autospeed d/p. I felt good about my system and had no leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 ^ NP! I was super-surprised that I was actually able to get under there! Luckily, no leaks from that section, but it was definitely worth the 10 minutes or so of "doh!" and "doh!" finger-contortions to figure out how to get my tool up and in-there. Definitely not sure if this is the case with all other DPs, though. So best of luck! <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Try a flex pipe....2 blown headers....stock manifold put back on the car 2x.....no leaks. Ditch the copper gaskets and just do OEM. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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