erito Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 sebberry, that's what i tried to write yes, and i think AWD_rules just missinterpreted Volvo replaced the VC for Haldex clutch based coupling, but they still don't have any center diff.... Volvo is very expensive when you look at the AWD models (XC70,XC90) and you only get a crappy Haldex with no diff's. Audi A3/TT use the same with Haldex coupling and no diff. The other quattro use torsen diff, wich is one type of TBD=Torque Biased Differential. Subaru LSD is another type of TBD. Same same, but different My Subaru use the LSD center diff, but what kind of diff is there in front? And what kind rear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD_Rules3830 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 A haldex awd is not really an AWD as one set of wheels (front or rear) are not getting power unless it's 'needed'. I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 A haldex awd is not really an AWD as one set of wheels (front or rear) are not getting power unless it's 'needed'. True. Tell that to Volvo, Hyundai, Kia, Toyota (new Rav4), Nissan,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD_Rules3830 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 True. Tell that to Volvo, Hyundai, Kia, Toyota (new Rav4), Nissan,... thats why you buy subaru I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Definately a plain old open diff up front and probably a Limited Slip in the rear. Why model Outback is it? Not sure about foreign models. I have a 2006 Subaru Outback 2.5i VDC 4EAT Japan built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 haldex-like systems can lock without slip based on newer pump/electric systems, not just passive anymore. Basically think of them like the electronic locker on the STI set on automatic, minus the center diff and the ability to manually adjust locking percentage. For example, WOT will fully lock the clutches before wheelspin occurs. -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLegacy99 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Haladex goes in Ford, Lincoln, Mercury too right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMBIVALENCE Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 curious. what does suzuki use on their AWD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBY Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Well we're already discussing Audi, Volvo and Subaru AWD systems so why not Suzuki as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD_Rules3830 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Well we're already discussing Audi, Volvo and Subaru AWD systems so why not Suzuki as well? we mind-as-well prove that we kick their ass too. I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 we might-as-well prove that we kick their ass too. ninja edit. Subaru All-wheel-drive Rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWD_Rules3830 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 symmetrical FTW!! I love my car ... basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMBIVALENCE Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I dunno, does this look like the Suzuki forum? Haha admit it, we dont know what did they use under their car. Well we're already discussing Audi, Volvo and Subaru AWD systems so why not Suzuki as well? Yeah, thats why i didnt start a whole thread just on suzuki AWD. Might as well keep it altogether. But you know, their SX4 seems pretty decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Hmm.. ok.. does it have VTD? If so the center is probably a planetary diff with a hydraulicly operated multiplate clutch pack. With VDC the front and rear are open differentials as the VDC system limits slip by applying the brakes at the slipping wheel. Similar net effect as having an LSD in the rear. Only the 2007 SpecB uses a torsen at the back with VDC. .. god only knows why they used a Torsen.. ah.. brand recognition... Hmm.. how do i know if i have VTD? I thought all VDC cars had VTD, but i don't know. And maby the Japan cars are different from US-cars? And how do i know if i have open diff front/rear or some LSD diff? The car certainly seem to transfer torque from side to side when i put it in difficult conditions with ice+snow... Can it be that bad that they don't use LSD center differentials on VDC cars? No, on the websites they say alla subaru have LSD center diff.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Spec B is the first to have VDC minus VTD that I know of. Bit of a misnomer if you ask me. -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 sebberry, okay then i guess i'm happy with the VDC So far it works like a charm. If breaking is applied to the spinning wheel, how much torque is transfered to the other wheel? 100% according to the commercial, but is that true? One wheel in the air and the other on tarmac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beanboy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Max amount that the brake can apply to the wheel in th air will be available to the wheel on the tarmac. So say 80lbs-ft to move the braked wheel in the air, 80lbs-ft to the wheel on the tarmac. Open diff always wants to be equal. Couple of reasons why it isn't good for an off-roader. Brakes can overheat, and you are only seeing 50% of the rear axle torque going to the wheel with traction versus the near 100% with a locker system. Combined with torsen it can be effective, since the amount of torque to the wheel on the ground is 3-5 times more than the brakes wheel in the air. Believe this is the system the Hummer used for a while. -B http://www.standardshift.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Okay but what then happens when i turn off VDC? I have a button for that in my JDM 2006 Outback. Then i only make use of open diff front/rear and LSD center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IwannaSportSedan Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 no. it defaults to it's standard torque bias, and doesn't "vary" from there. I think. You can't turn off a differential. it is installed, so it is working. If it weren't working, really, your car wouldn't move, the transmission would just spin. It just that the computer controlled variance gets disabled, and the standard 55/45 torque split takes effect, and doesn't vary from there. Mostly like the MT 50/50 system, just 5% more rear bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 no. it defaults to it's standard torque bias, and doesn't "vary" from there. I think. You can't turn off a differential. it is installed, so it is working. If it weren't working, really, your car wouldn't move, the transmission would just spin. It just that the computer controlled variance gets disabled, and the standard 55/45 torque split takes effect, and doesn't vary from there. Mostly like the MT 50/50 system, just 5% more rear bias. Okay nice. But i get 60% front and 40% rear as default torque split. I have the 4EAT automatic. The 5EAT get 45%-55%. At least according to Subaru Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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