Video: Subaru v Volvo

[vulvarizer]

So are the new Volvo's any better? I mean do we really know... they could suck just as much then as they do now. Someone needs to do that WAD test over again with newer models.

 

Yes, they are much better especially the 2nd gen haldex R and XC90, Pre-charge they call it. The change in torque distribution is much faster and unnoticeable. Although not as seemless as other full time systems.

[iyalla]

The systems are much better because they rely on more precise computer control or better viscous clutches. On that old video they set the Volvo up to fail because he feathered the throttle so that the parameters for the transfer of power to the rear was never reached. I bet if he floored it so that the fronts slipped a lot more by spinning faster the rear would have engaged and the Volvo would have made it up the hill. I think the newer Volvos are setup like the Suby 4eat which engages the rear when the fronts just begin to think about slipping so that they never even slip, its freaky to experience it in the snow on my 05

 

Some AWD systems allow half a turn or 1/4 or even 1/5 of a turn before engaging the rear. That video shows that the older Volvos didn't even do that. It looks like they were based on the speed in which the fronts are slipping which is really bad if you are trying to go up a hill really slowly.

[erito]

iyalla, no that's not it. They really tried the option to 'floor it' to make the back kick in, but they won't get enogh power anyway. They even tell what Volvo told them to drive like, but still not able to get up the hill.

 

The new Haldex from -03 is much better, but still just a "semi-awd" cheapass system.

 

BMW's xDrive is way better than Haldex. You could get haldex to work okay by setting some default traction to all four wheels. That's just what audi does on their Quattro system for Audi TT and A3 models which are based on just Haldex. The rest of their Quattro models are based on the superiour torsen diff. Almost as good as Subaru AWD

[Max Rebo]

First link was broken for me but I guess it is the old video where the Haldex fuse was obviously pulled. The front wheels just keep spinning and the rears never come on. The older haldex only let the fronts spin 1/7 of a turn, no way that's real.

 

Edit: Got the video to work that is def BS. AT 1.35 mins you can see the fronts spinning away endlessly with no motion from the rear wheels. This is not haldex or any other form of awd.

It seemed like *something* was wrong with that Volvo. Either that, or earlier versions of Haldex are really bad. If the front wheels are slipping and the rears are just sitting there.... that's what happens when the Haldex ECM is disconnected.

 

Current versions of Haldex are much better than what is portrayed in that video.

 

My VW R32 was great in the snow... fast or slow speeds. Didn't matter. Never got stuck going up a slippery hill. I could even do donuts in the snow with that (previous version) of Haldex. There's a newer version available, which I believe will make it here in future Audi/VW models.

 

Aside from calling it a "cheapass" system (which it isn't really), it works quite well given its design.

[BDII]

……Ya, dey put slicks on the Volo and pumped’m up to 60pounds! Cheaters…

Besides: there’s no hills in front of Country Day School or Whole Foods market anyway!

j i m

 

right!!

[vulvarizer]

i

 

BMW's xDrive is way better than Haldex.

 

Elaborate.

[MangoGT]

Did anyone see this video? [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIO0ekiJyxw&mode=suggested&search=]YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

 

When I first saw Camry I was expecting a Legacy GT, but it really is a Camry!

[erito]

BMW's xDrive has torque sensors and really good programming. Haldex has to slip before traction is transfered (even though it is 'just' 1/5 wheelspin, it still has to spin), xDrive and torsen diff and subarus LSD transfer torque BEFORE the slip.

 

Yes, the new Haldex is better. It is better than 2wd but not close to xDrive, Quattro, Subaru AWD.

 

In the first Volvos with haldex, you had to spin the front wheels for about 30 seconds before the oil-pressure was enough in the viscous to start transfer any power... very lousy and even much worse than 2wd with traction control.

[USERBOSCO]

You know Fuji heavy industries is 25% owned by GM, right?

 

 

very interesting the fifth gear vid. Volvos are neat cars, but they just seem to have gotten stupid expensive and lost their cool rally heritage. In the beginning, Volvos were like the swedish Subarus of the day. Saab was the same way too. Saabs and Volvos have been ruined by the GM and Ford idiots. Sometimes money can't buy you excellence all the time.

[high_ping]

This is the reason why I smile when I pass a Volvo X on the road.

[AWD_Rules3830]

You know Fuji heavy industries is 25% owned by GM, right?

 

Not anymore, GM sold their stake in FHI to Toyota Motor Corp. a few months back.

[AWD_Rules3830]

very interesting the fifth gear vid. Volvos are neat cars, but they just seem to have gotten stupid expensive and lost their cool rally heritage. In the beginning, Volvos were like the swedish Subarus of the day. Saab was the same way too. Saabs and Volvos have been ruined by the GM and Ford idiots. Sometimes money can't buy you excellence all the time.

 

Well ... sorta. They kinda ruined themselves, atleast in the case of Saab. Both of the brands had reliability issues out the ying yang. Saabs torque steered, sometimes still do, like a mofo. They were basically bought because they had alot of money issues.

 

Neither Saab nor Volvo would exist today if it wasnt for money from Ford Motor Comp. and General Motors.

[AWD_Rules3830]

Yes, the new Haldex is better. It is better than 2wd but not close to xDrive, Quattro, Subaru AWD.

 

I have to admit i havent really heard all that many good things about the XDrive system. Its really tuned for more of a dry performance drive situation, not all-weather traction. I have read it is almost useless in the snow or mud; when you add the combo that the tires that are stock would be for more dry/wet performance.

[erito]

AWD_Rules3830, the older xDrive system was not that good. The new one which was introduced in x3 cars first is excellent. Believe me, i've tried it in deep snow in northern sweden and on gravel/tarmac. It is abit more 'electronic' than subaru and audi, but it works fine. I dont like the choppy ABS feeling with xDrive, but it is way ahead of Haldex.

[Max Rebo]

FWIW, the version of Haldex available in the Mk4 R32 was very good. I was never able to feel it working. It just worked...

 

For that version, it only took 1/8 front wheel revolution to engage the clutch pack at the rear wheels.

 

In the end, if you never get stuck, then it's all good.

[USERBOSCO]

News to me, but it beggs the question: Why is SAAB still using some Subaru technology and platforms then?

 

 

 

Not anymore, GM sold their stake in FHI to Toyota Motor Corp. a few months back.

[Beanboy]

GM had a 20% stake in FHI of which roughly 9% was sold to Toyota, rest went on the open market. One car only, the 9-2x.

[phoenix96]

News to me, but it beggs the question: Why is SAAB still using some Subaru technology and platforms then?

 

Saab only ever shared one Subaru platform - for the 9-2X. That cooperation ended when GM sold their shares of FHI. The 2006 9-2Xs still being sold are the leftovers. (A replacement on a different, GM platform will probably show up in a year or two)

[Mercury]

Why do they always use wagons when they do those tests?! Just curious, hehe.

[iyalla]

iyalla, no that's not it. They really tried the option to 'floor it' to make the back kick in, but they won't get enogh power anyway. They even tell what Volvo told them to drive like, but still not able to get up the hill.

 

Man if thats what the guy was saying then I will never look at a Volvo station wagon AWD the same again That was a sad display.

[16psibrick]

i will chip in being a moderator on the volvo forums

 

the xc does have haldex awd, whcih someone has described here...but that video still looked wtrange to me, as the rear wheels never even made a move.

 

i have driven awd volvos in the snow and know this not to be the case...

 

but, keep in mind all you need to turn a awd volvo into a fwd volvo is removing (or popping) a single fuse, this turns off the haldex and turns the car into fwd only, its not a mechanical system as on the subarus.

 

the video looks more like a fwd car with traction control trying to climb a hill

 

for performance dricing, i absolutely agree systems such as subarus or quattro is better, the haldex is really more for comfort, safety, and economy...

 

but honestly, that video...i wouldnt be surprised if the haldex had a bad fuse..

[Throttlejockey]

That is pretty wild!!!! how does one do that?

 

With a whole lot of e-braking!

[erito]

Okay that video show Volvo with the viscous coupling and it actually is that bad.

Volvo does not use that coupling anymore (stopped -02 or late -01).

 

The front wheels need to spin for several seconds, and the colder outside, the longer time to spin ( i have even seen cases with 40 sec frontwheel spin before the rear kicks in).

 

Now the use Haldex as in Audi A3/TT and it is much better, but not even near Quattro/Subaru.

[AWD_Rules3830]

Okay that video show Volvo with the viscous coupling and it actually is that bad.

Volvo does not use that coupling anymore (stopped -02 or late -01).

 

The front wheels need to spin for several seconds, and the colder outside, the longer time to spin ( i have even seen cases with 40 sec frontwheel spin before the rear kicks in).

 

Now the use Haldex as in Audi A3/TT and it is much better, but not even near Quattro/Subaru.

 

dude quattro is an audi product lol.

[AWD_Rules3830]

I think what he is saying is that they now use a Haldex system like the one featured in the Audi A3/TT, but it still isn't as good as a quattro or Subaru system.

 

The TT/A3 uses a different setup I believe than the other quattro models.

 

well they call it quattro anyway.

 

Edit -

All transversly mounted engines are heldex quattro, inferior to torsen quattro, used in all other longituditaly mounted engine audi products.

 

sorry for the mix up.