scottmcphee Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 M I gave it 12v at the ign. Ground at the ground. Hooked up my meter to Ground and left. Touched 12v to Left...got 12v on the meter while i was touching left and then nothing. Hooked up meter to right and ground. Touched 12v to right and got sparks anyone wanna sell me one of these or make a better wiring diagram....perferably a ladder diagram? Don't put hot +12 on the signal lines or tap turn circuit for testing. As you saw, sparks result. You need to tame the power down a bit! Thankfully the denso module is protected from this kind of mishap, but the tap turn circuit doesn't like it.. Here's the way to test tap turn circuit before attaching it to the car: Temporarily add a "pull-up" resistor on each tap turn signal line. 1.2K resistors mimic the car denso module exactly. Tie one end of a resistor to +12 and the other end to the tap turn signal line. Do this one for each side. Then use your meter like you were doing.. but to trigger a tap turn just touch the signal line to ground and release it. The meter on that line drops to zero for about 2.2 seconds, then rises back to +12. If you touch the other line to ground during this 2.2 seconds you will notice an immediate rise back to +12 (and the other line will then stick to zero for 2.2 seconds). The final test is a "flick test" that mimics switch debouncing: touch a line to ground very very quickly (less than about 50ms) and it should NOT cause a tap turn to stick for the full time.. the meter will just just 'flick'. Why? Car signal lines normally carry +12 (put there by the denso) when the IGN is switched on, but this is at low power, about 10mA. This is enough power to keep signal switch contacts clean but not pitted. Grounding a signal line in the car is what makes blinks in that direction, while it remains grounded. The tap turn circuit "piggybacks" the signal line, watching for ground. When tap turn notices ground it immediately continues to hold the line at ground even if you release it sooner than a minimum amount of time (3 blinks). I don't know about making ladder diagrams.. but I can make tap turn circuits ;-) PM me if you need further help with this! Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I personally think that the Tap Turn is a terrible idea. I think an attentive driver should not rely on such a gimmnick to help him signal lane changes. The turn signal stalk has already lane change function (i.e. you hold it without moving all the way up or down). Proper signaling of lane changes is to turn the signal on before the manuver and turn it off after completing it. Since the time it takes change lane varies, I would not rely on a timed signal. Also, often you may decide to go back in the middle of the change, and signal appropriately. I hope your mod would not keep the turn signal stuck if you decide to signal the other way in the middle of the "timed signalling". So I don't like it. But I am anal retentive about proper signalling and honk on those lazy and disrespectful bastards that don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcphee Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 I hope your mod would not keep the turn signal stuck if you decide to signal the other way in the middle of the "timed signalling". Uumm... OK. yes, if you change your mind and want to signal the other way, it cancels like it should. And remember: signaling can be fun! with tap turn it's a bit of a "novelty" and maybe people who otherwise don't signal at speed for lane changes would be enticed to do it for the fun factor. You know, carrot instead of stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Uumm... OK. yes, if you change your mind and want to signal the other way, it cancels like it should. Ok. Otherwise it would be downright dangerous. And remember: signaling can be fun! with tap turn it's a bit of a "novelty" and maybe people who otherwise don't signal at speed for lane changes would be enticed to do it for the fun factor. You know, carrot instead of stick. Interesting argument, but I don't buy it - when "novelty" factor wears off, as it's the case with everything, they will stop signalling. As far as respectful and responsible driving is concerned it, if someone lacks it he/she requires mental upgrade, not a hardware one. I totally admire your car electronics skills, but please give us solutions to increase safety or convenience (like auto-up windows) without sacrificing safety in slightest way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcphee Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 ...please give us solutions to increase safety or convenience (like auto-up windows) without sacrificing safety in slightest way. You bet! O.T. I'd like to know what you think of BMW's progressive braking lights, the harder you push the more light is emitted from the rear brake lamps? Cheers, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 ^^ they're finally doing that? I was wondering when cars would have that. I think it's a great idea. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcphee Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 ^^ they're finally doing that? I was wondering when cars would have that. I think it's a great idea. Ya, I noticed this on the new 3 series. Half the brake light comes on - it's bright, and with more pressure on the pedal the second half lights up and in total it's even brighter. So if you're following pretty close you'll know to whoa!! and better do the same. Taking the idea a little further.. .I wonder what if your high stop lamp (center mount) was three-color. Green when you're on the accelerator... yellow (or maybe just OFF) when foot is off both pedals.. and red is foot on the brake pedal.. I guess if you're green / red color blind ... this could be confusing. What about amber / red ... who know anything about color blindness and combinations that work, and combinations to avoid? I wonder if this would reduce number of rear end collisions once everybody was trained to know this is what was going on? Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKonBLACK Limited Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 will you make me a "kit"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcphee Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 will you make me a "kit"? I was thinking of making tap turn an add-on inside the retained accessory power module... see this thread http://legacygt.com/forums/interior-audio/34363-retained-accessory-power-modification.html Would you be interested in buying a completely assembled all-in-one (RRAP plus Tap Turn)? Cheers Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdgulkin Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 TAP + RRAP + AutoWindow all sound great to me. Will you do a bundle discount? I might get AutoWindow for my wife's car too - again - hoping for a multiunit discount. I just sent you an email with some questions regarding AutoWindow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKonBLACK Limited Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I was thinking of making tap turn an add-on inside the retained accessory power module... see this thread http://legacygt.com/forums/interior-audio/34363-retained-accessory-power-modification.html Would you be interested in buying a completely assembled all-in-one (RRAP plus Tap Turn)? Cheers Scott I would most def be interested, Maybe the auto window (gotta read a thread on that) maybe you could do a mod where when you hit the lock button twice on the factory remote all the windows roll up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKonBLACK Limited Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I would most def be interested, Maybe the auto window (gotta read a thread on that) maybe you could do a mod where when you hit the lock button twice on the factory remote all the windows roll up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcphee Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 ..the kinds of functions you talk about for remote window control of windows are not ready for Legacy yet, these AutoWindow remote control modules are for other car brands, not Subaru. The only things I have for Legacy now are Tap Turn, and RRAP. Tap Turn can be purchased as an option of a RRAP module, at time of order. Why did I make it this way? Almost everybody who wanted Tap Turn also bought RRAP, but not vise versa... plus it cuts down the number of wires to connect by two. I have fixed up the web pages to clarify and make ordering easier: Order RRAP with Tap Turn option Thanks Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 those prices are in canadian dollars....riiiight? My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcphee Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 those prices are in canadian dollars....riiiight? The web site is all set up in USD. Paypal will convert funds to USD from any currency you have for making payment.. I may change this all in August when PayPal opens its Canadian subsidiary. Anyway prices would then be dialed up according to conversion rates so they'll be no bargain waiting for that.. For now this is the way it works. thx Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 $130 for something that I KNOW costs less than $15 in parts.....I dunno about that one...... My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcphee Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 $130 for something that I KNOW costs less than $15 in parts.....I dunno about that one...... Keep in mind, that price is for all of the function of RRAP plus Tap Turn.. I've published the plans on these forums for do-it-yourselfers, using parts sourced from anywhere if you like. But most guys like the convenience of having electronics arrive ready-to-install, with instructions, rather than a pile of parts. If you're a DIY kind of guy, then you know it's really about time (labour costs) not the parts that make a price. Latest testimonial on RRAP thread says he's totally happy spending the money, thinks it's good value, and works great... and of course I agree Why are we paying $200 for Windows XP for parts (CDROM) that I know cost less than 2 cents? Show me the source code, and I'll type it in! (not) There's a little bit of "intellectual capital" that goes into price too. Somebody figured this stuff out, and tested it, and stands behind it... Cheers Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Scott - any plans for other cars? I'm intrigued by this for the LGT, but also have two Mini Cooper S's in dire need of 'auto-up' for the windows. I know someone makes a module...just wondering if I can order everything from one place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcphee Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 Scott - any plans for other cars? I'm intrigued by this for the LGT, but also have two Mini Cooper S's in dire need of 'auto-up' for the windows. I know someone makes a module...just wondering if I can order everything from one place. You can get basic auto-up/down window function from DEI 530T module, which fits most cars. I don't carry those. I am thinking of "laminating" more functions onto this module for Legacy. No plans for Cooper.. but .. you've just given me an idea. Thanks Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 heh...I sold a 530T on eBay last summer as it had been sitting aroud useless for two years. As for the Mini, check this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I've published the plans on these forums for do-it-yourselfers, using parts sourced from anywhere if you like.... Why are we paying $200 for Windows XP for parts (CDROM) that I know cost less than 2 cents? Show me the source code, and I'll type it in! (not) There's a little bit of "intellectual capital" that goes into price too. Somebody figured this stuff out, and tested it, and stands behind it... ^ +1. Scott has offered, repeatedly, to help me with my own build (which I still have not the time for - I baby Anna, but damn if I wouldn't like some free-time, too! ), and he's truly documented every last little detail for all to see on an "open book" basis. He never said simply "hey, I've got this stuff, you can do it, too" and just left us dangling - nor did he ever simply cite other/incomplete on-line resources for those on the other end to have to sift through and figure-out by trial-and-error. He's done step-by-step walk-throughs. Anyone who wants to do this - either on-the-cheap or for their own gratification - can easily do so by just simply following his plans. I truly don't think that brother Scott is trying to rip anyone off here. He's simply providing a service/product to the community for a fee, and honestly, IMHO, not an outrageous one at that, either. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 I finally got around to installing it in the car. Works just fine. Me likey. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRXGuyInVegas Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 $79 is really not much at all... that's a VERY fair price, considering the R&D behind it, plus the labor to make it... I'll be picking one up soon... "Insert Signature Here" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 So mine WAS working. Got in the car this morning and the right turn signal wouldn't turn off. If you used the left signal both would blink. So I pulled the ground off the circuit cause it was the easiest wire to get to. Right turn stopped blinking and would work like normal. Left turn still casued both to come on. Any ideas what happened? My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcphee Posted July 26, 2006 Author Share Posted July 26, 2006 So mine WAS working. Got in the car this morning and the right turn signal wouldn't turn off. If you used the left signal both would blink. So I pulled the ground off the circuit cause it was the easiest wire to get to. Right turn stopped blinking and would work like normal. Left turn still casued both to come on. Any ideas what happened? Well, it sounds like a right fault in the module. You should disconnect all four of the module wires and return it. I need to see it. Do you have any other signal light mod's, LEDs, etc on the car? Please follow the return instructions on the support page on the AutoWindow web site. Please PM me if you need helps.. Thanks.. and sorry about this! I'll get to the bottom of it. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.