Is Subaru a Technology Leader, or Follower?

[outahere]

Seems to me Subaru is not much of a leader in developing or implementing new technology. For instance, VW and Audi have a new turbo motor out, a 2.0L direct injection gas motor. One of the benefits of direct injection is that this gasoline turbo motor can safely use a 10.5:1 compression ratio, which translates into better off boost performance and better mileage. With Subaru's long history with turbocharging, why aren't they the innovators? As another example, VW and Audi recently came out with a twin clutch semi-auto DSG gearbox that allows lightning fast manual gearshifts. (But too bad the VAG cars are so unreliable.) Even Subaru's AWD systems are not state of the art. On the other hand, they are reliable AWD systems, especially the all mechanical versions.

[Throttlejockey]

Did you take the on-line survey they sent you?

[Th3Franz]

Perhaps that explains the mechanical problems associated with VW and Audi. Sure they might innovate a little more, but then they cut back on reliability testing of their new cars and systems maybe? Subaru is doing a good job of improving on their mechanical AWD systems over the years. Drive or ride in an 05 STi especially and you'll see what I mean..

[BookemDano]

I think that Subie is a technology leader. They provide drivable, reliable technology at a reasonable price. It's easy to create something that makes the car magazine hacks drool. It's something else again to provide something very close that you can drive to work ever day AND stay out of the shop. At the end of the day, reasonable reliability is critical to happiness. VW/Audi do NOT have it. If you want max performance, there are several aftermarket vendors that will make the Legacy GT pump out more than 300+ horsepower. But then it would be as reliable as an Audi. Do you want that? I thought I did until I bought an Audi (2002 A4 3.0 6MT). Now I know better. German engineering leadership? Bull! Make it good AND reliable, and THEN you can talk engineering leadership. Regards, Dan.

[Deer Killer]

Yes it is so sad, however I will make up for by driving my 250hp of turbocharged bliss the 6 months out of the year that it will not be "in the shop", compared to a vw or audi..

[mccorry]

I think Subaru is a leader in automotive technology....

[SUBE555]

A agree with the other fellas who say that they are for the most part making cars that (for the majority of us) are reliable yet powerful. Something hard to find on both ends. Things I would like to see implemented though when they can be found to be Subaru levels of reliability are cam-less intake valves, direct-injection, variable compression, and other technologies, but not until they become reliable enough. Innovation is great, unless it needs constant intereaction to work, then it's just another great idea that isn't fully realized.

[SteVTEC]

Ditto the other comments. R&D budgets are *not* unlimited and you only have so much money that you can throw around. VW/Audi is definitely a leader when it comes to technology and innovation. VR6 engines, W-8, and W-12 engines, turbodiesel V10's, the friggin Phaeton, AWD setups for both transverse and longitudinal engines, yadda yadda. But yes, their quality control is POOR. [url]http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=860&CatID=1[/url] Then look at Toyota. Boring designs. Boring but generally pleasing powertrains. What have they really innovated lately besides their hybrid technology? err...not much. This is because Toyota puts more R&D effort into quality and reliability testing than any other manufacturer out there, and hence they're #1. So the moral of the story is, you can't have everything.

[bemani]

Funny Audi was mentioned ... Subaru had CVT over a decade before Audi's recent A4 CVT. I don't think Subaru invented it, but they did have it in a car before Audi did :p

[crapy]

well, iDrive can be considered to be an innovation too; do u want it?

[bemani]

[quote name='crapy']well, iDrive can be considered to be an innovation too; do u want it?[/quote] I'd reserve my judgement on it until [b]I[/b] have used it. There are alot of technology inept people out there who even have trouble with their everyday appliances. I have this image of all the people who complain about idrive are the same people who type with 2 fingers :P

[05LegacyGT330Ci]

iDrive is a horrible system, great idea but unnecessary. Too much innovation and technology only makes the driving expeirence become superceded by the technology. I prefer the Subaru that may not be the most advanced but everything is proven and works thats all I care about is fun that I don't have to worry about breaking everytime it starts up.

[gtguy]

iDrive is a disaster. Everyone from users to automotive journalists, who know better, complain about its ridiculous qualities. One guy, a long-time BMW devotee, wrote in the marque's "Roundel" magazine that he didn't need an alarm for his 5-series car. That further, he could leave the car running, in his driveway, confident that no thief could figure out iDrive sufficiently well to make the thing move. :lol: Very funny, that. Never forget that Subaru is a small...no, make that tiny manufacturer. They account for less than one percent of the total car sales, with low to mid-priced cars. They can't afford to be a cutting-edge technology leader, plain and simple. But those aren't attributes that have traditionally attracted people to the marque. The problem now is that people have a perception that performance=technology, and it doesn't necessarily. Kevin

[wunderkind]

Ehm... back in 1999, I bought an Impreza Outback Sport. It came with 4-sensor, 4-channel ABS system. In those days cars it it's price range and thousands above don't even have that advanced ABS system. BTW, first CVT came from a Subaru Justy back in the late 80s. Audi just advertised it more.

[kanoswrx]

I think Subaru is an inovator in some ways, just look at what happened when they brought the WRX out over here. The turbo/awd market just took off. everyone now is adding blown engines and all the other companies want awd, just look at what GM did, they bought part of subaru to use their AWD in a Saab. GM is also coming out with a saturn that has a SC. Dodge made the SRT 4. Mitsubishi finally brought the EVO VIII over. I think Subaru started a new trend, much like the Civic did in the 90's. Best of all subaru does all of this the best out of any company out there, its usually cheaper then other similarly equiped cars, faster, and handles better, not to mention more reliable.

[SUBE555]

Kanos, that's why they are called Niche. ;)

[krzyss]

[quote name='wunderkind']Ehm... BTW, first CVT came from a Subaru Justy back in the late 80s. Audi just advertised it more.[/quote] First CVT was put into a car in 1958. It was Dutch DAF (I think they are long gone) with .6 liter engine. [url]http://www.sae.org/automag/techbriefs_01-00/03.htm[/url]

[krzyss]

[quote name='kanoswrx']The turbo/awd market just took off.[/quote] Don't you think that VW with Audi A4 Quattro 1.8T was first ? I agree that after WRX there was/is an avalanche of AWD/turbo cars but Subaru was not first. They even dared to bring the body of WRX (including hood scoop) and put 2.5 N/A engine in it. Krzys PS Maybe it is SOA to blame not Subaru but maybe not.

[outahere]

[quote name='gtguy']iDrive is a disaster. Everyone from users to automotive journalists, who know better, complain about its ridiculous qualities. One guy, a long-time BMW devotee, wrote in the marque's "Roundel" magazine that he didn't need an alarm for his 5-series car. That further, he could leave the car running, in his driveway, confident that no thief could figure out iDrive sufficiently well to make the thing move. :lol: Very funny, that.....................Kevin[/quote] And yet, BMWs continue to sell extremely well. In spite of iDrive and the controversial styling. Go figure.

[bemani]

[quote name='krzyss'][quote name='kanoswrx']The turbo/awd market just took off.[/quote] Don't you think that VW with Audi A4 Quattro 1.8T was first ? [/quote] Not the A4, but the Audi Quattro basically brought about Subaru's (and everyone else's ) AWD turbo rally cars.

[bemani]

[quote name='outahere'] And yet, BMWs continue to sell extremely well. In spite of iDrive and the controversial styling. Go figure.[/quote] That's my reasoning ... there are probably people that can learn how to use idrive intuitively - that's why they were engineered that way and produced in the first place, and that's why the cars continue to sell.

[kanoswrx]

[quote name='krzyss'][quote name='kanoswrx']The turbo/awd market just took off.[/quote] Don't you think that VW with Audi A4 Quattro 1.8T was first ? I agree that after WRX there was/is an avalanche of AWD/turbo cars but Subaru was not first. They even dared to bring the body of WRX (including hood scoop) and put 2.5 N/A engine in it. Krzys PS Maybe it is SOA to blame not Subaru but maybe not.[/quote] I don't know the facts on who had the first AWD car, probably some guy in his barn who hooked up two engines in the front and back. So I guess he should get credit for starting the AWD craze :) I will admit though, back in the day the Audi's rulled the awd/turbo market, back in the Group A rallies in the 70's and 80's. Don't forget Lancia either, they had a kick ass awd/turbo'd car too that is still fast to this day and its over 20 years old. Subaru didn't get into the turbo/awd market until the early 90's really. But they are the only ones that I see now really pushing that segment along, find another awd/turbo car for the same money that can perform just as well with the same high quality. you won't find it. But seriously, AWD and Turbo cars have been out for a long time, subaru has had them for over 3 decades probably almost as long as Audi/VW. But it wasn't until the WRX came out that I have seen more car companies trying to be like the WRX, either with a blown engine, awd, or both.

[wunderkind]

I don't believe iDrive is available on the 3-series yet. and those are the staple cars for bmw.

[05LegacyGT330Ci]

No its not but it will be ont he new E90 coming out next year.

[Jeff_DML]

[quote name='bemani'] Not the A4, but the Audi Quattro basically brought about Subaru's (and everyone else's ) AWD turbo rally cars.[/quote] you ever seen this car? [img]http://www.audiworld.com/model/historical/84/pix/urq.jpg[/img] 1984 Audi Quattro 5-cylinder, in-line, turbocharged quattro all-wheel drive [url]http://www.audiworld.com/model/historical/84/urq.shtml[/url]