STI Strut Tower Brace Review

[B4_Maniac]

That would be do to the lack of a rear multi-link suspension in the WRX. Its a better design, and prevents squat under hard throttle. Like I said..this is the best part the Leg suspension. Kanos..I would jump up and down if I bought these parts and get the handeling that I am craveing for. I just don't want to buy them, install them..then be pissed to find..what I am desireing can not be achived by some bolt-ons. B4..

[kanoswrx]

From what I heard the Spec B suspension is like the Spec C suspension on the WRX. Its solid and handles great and reduces roll, yet is still pretty comfortable and is daily driveable (still will be harsher then stock of course). Plus its a part put on at the factory in japan. So you can find full takeoff parts for cheap to make for an easier install, or just pay someone to do it, couldn't be more then 100-200 bucks for the install. But I understand people not wanting to mess with the car, if your really worried about your car having problems go test drive another one and see if that car has the same issues. If it does I don't know what else to say, could allways trade it in for something else or just go with something like the Spec B suspension.

[apexjapan2]

I think I am about the only person who thought the spec B was great as is. It was canned by most of the wuss press corps :wink: The B revision is quite a deal softer - still handles great, but is definitely not as sharp as the original. Personally, I think B4_Maniac may just be looking for something that isn't here. I'm sorry, but IMHO, even the softest of the NA's here in Japan handles better than most any of the so called sports sedans available here in the same price range (except the Mazda Atenza/6, which relys on its good rubber). I think good rubber will fix most of the issues on a USDM, but if that doesn't, then big buck upgrades are the only route, and that means you bought the wrong car for you (unless you planned on them from the start). IMHO, cut your losses and go find something that'll make you happy. Life is too short.

[gtguy]

[quote name='apexjapan2']I think I am about the only person who thought the spec B was great as is. It was canned by most of the wuss press corps :wink: The B revision is quite a deal softer - still handles great, but is definitely not as sharp as the original. Personally, I think B4_Maniac may just be looking for something that isn't here. I'm sorry, but IMHO, even the softest of the NA's here in Japan handles better than most any of the so called sports sedans available here in the same price range (except the Mazda Atenza/6, which relys on its good rubber). I think good rubber will fix most of the issues on a USDM, but if that doesn't, then big buck upgrades are the only route, and that means you bought the wrong car for you (unless you planned on them from the start). IMHO, cut your losses and go find something that'll make you happy. Life is too short.[/quote] Unfortunately, that might be the case. The reviews that I have read, rather than comparing the GT to the past GT, were simply comparing it to other great handling sports sedans. Even a picky mag such as Sports Car International was very positive about the GTs handling, not compared to the outgoing car...just great handling, period. Heck, even the base Outback I got to drive was a fine-handling car, once you adjusted for the body roll. That's why I think something might be hinky, B4. Kevin

[Drift Monkey]

[quote name='B4_Maniac']I don't think that the car is a Lemon. But, I have suspected that there is something not right with the front end. But, if I remember correctly, my 01 GT had the same feel. I brought it in many times to have it checked out and the car re-aligned. But, the shakey feel never left the vehical UNTILL I upgraded the rubber and but the STB on it. Then it felt more perseise. My woes and handeling complaints could disapear with these simple up grades but, I am concerned that they may not. I don't have faith in the Indiana plant just yet..and there could be something that they did or did not do to contribute to my complaints. Or, my next assumption is that its the USDM suspension and its settings. In regards to the U.S reviews of the Legacy, they have all been in USDM Legs so when you compare the 05 Leg's supension to the prior models...its easy to be impresed. It is the best set up in recent years for the USDM. But its not the best over all set up across the model line (world wide). I can almost put moneyon if you put a USDM Leg and a Spec A JDM Leg on the track the JDM model will get the better time. The long winded point that I am trying to make is that we did not get the best option available as far as shocks and springs go..and additional support from a FSTB + RSTB and Sways could raise the capabilites of the car. If that solves my problems, I will smile and go about my happy way.. I just hope that my problems are not deeper than those items can fix. B4[/quote] There you go blaming the indiana plant and bashing USDM build qulaity.... :lol: I think the suspension is good, epecially the new rear multilink! I can get the rear to step out with ease, unlike the WRX...

[B4_Maniac]

Apex Japan2.. You make a good point. I admit I was spoiled by my RX8's 50/50 weight distribution and aluminum control arms and rear multilink.. So mabey I am trying to find that in the Leg..but the Leg's design should yeild more than what I am getting out of it. I wish you guys in Japan could drive the USDM model. Or oder a pair of the shocks and springs and put them on a JDM car and do a comparison. I would love to buy Spec B shocks and try them, but I am scared that won't cure my handeling crave. But, Kev and Monkey.. if I had a choice, to either buy a Leg that was built in Japan or from Indiana...I would deffinatly pick the Japanese one. I have been holding my tongue on the other quality issues... Like my loose front bumper clips and gaps in the center console. b4

[outahere]

[quote name='B4_Maniac']..... But that is no exuse to why this car handles as bad as it does. The rear mulitilink set up is to be praised but the over all feel is loose, and borderline shakey. My 01 GT had a STB on it and it was worlds better with it then with out it. The 05's GT suspension is borderline a embarresment. ........B4_Maniac[/quote] This begs the question, why didn't you notice this embarrasing suspension during your test drive, before buying the car?

[B4_Maniac]

[quote name='outahere'][quote name='B4_Maniac']..... But that is no exuse to why this car handles as bad as it does. The rear mulitilink set up is to be praised but the over all feel is loose, and borderline shakey. My 01 GT had a STB on it and it was worlds better with it then with out it. The 05's GT suspension is borderline a embarresment. ........B4_Maniac[/quote] This begs the question, why didn't you notice this embarrasing suspension during your test drive, before buying the car?[/quote] I did notice that it was soft. But, I am not one to go and beat up on a car during a test drive. Its not like I am going to take a brand new car and drive it to its limits. My car has over 3k miles on it, and I have put it through its paces. And the supension and the loosenes remains my BIGGEST bone of contention. B4_Maniac

[outahere]

[quote name='B4_Maniac'] I did notice that it was soft. But, I am not one to go and beat up on a car during a test drive. Its not like I am going to take a brand new car and drive it to its limits. My car has over 3k miles on it, and I have put it through its paces. And the supension and the loosenes remains my BIGGEST bone of contention. B4_Maniac[/quote] Sounds like you need a Legacy STI with optional "track ready" suspension. I think you bought the wrong car. But the aftermarket can meet your wishes. Solid bushings, new shocks, and new springs will certainly get rid of looseness. Funny that you find the suspension so soft, when just a few days ago on another thread a person was complaining that the GT suspension was damaging his spine because it was so hard. Have you crawled underneath the car to look for loose suspension bolts? It is possible that someone at the factory forgot to tighten a fastener.

[B4_Maniac]

That was my second concern. No, I have not looked under the car yet. But, I agree with Kev that their may be something wrong. No I don't think I bought the wrong car. The Legacy is a awsome car, its just I didn't know it wouldn't satisfy my handeling needs.. Mabey I just need to get a Lotus Elise and use the Leggy as my day to day driver... :D

[outahere]

[quote name='B4_Maniac'].........Mabey I just need to get a Lotus Elise and use the Leggy as my day to day driver... :D[/quote] Better yet, get a used F1 race car (circa 1998) and use the Legacy as the daily driver.

[BoxerGT2.5]

Keep in mind...myself and B4 are comming from the Rx-8....well atleast I still have mine......which has been considered one of the most balanced and best handling cars out there. For myself I know the GT can utilize a good set of Tein or JIC coilovers and some sways....combine that with AWD and I think I personally may like it better than my 8.

[apexjapan]

Also keep in mind that I wouldn't say that there is much in it as far as a stock RX8 vs. a stock Legacy GT or Spec B in Japanese spec. I've driven the RX8 before the Legacy, actually, and I would have rated it better at that point, but after the first drive of the Legacies, my impression changed. Or, more accurately - the RX8 is a better handling car, stock, due to weight distribution and other issues, but the Legacy in JDM trim is close enough that other factors come to the forefront, among them power/torque and AWD. The USDM Legacy is not *that* different from the JDM Legacy - mainly the springs/struts used, and possibly stabilizer bars, along with rubber. In-adequete rubber is possibly the biggest culprit in complaints vs. the USDM Legacy right now - the suspension is softer, but it's probably the rubber that can't adequetly keep up with the other components. If somebody is driving the car hard enough to feel there is suspension problems, then upgrade the rubber first. It's needed anyways, and will make defining any problems (or lack of problems) with the suspension easier. Much of what defines many cars as "better" at the track, stock, can be directly traced to which rubber is shipped with the car stock. If a STi came with the RE92's as standard, very few people would be praising it's handling. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url]

[apexjapan2]

A perrenial topic wihtout a doubt. One that raises the ire of many, because simply put, they are a very individual "thing". Subaru Japan seemed to learn that tyres were killing its rep with the B4, which went from RE-010 (already ancient at launch), to RE-011 for a bilnk (nothing to add :wink: ), then to RE040 (better but not great). The C rev of the WRX STi got the 070 - hitherto only seen on the NSX type R. Uptil then they had RE040s on it!! :o And the Legacy in Japan finally got some decent rubber with the BL/BP launch... Honestly, the question begs to be asked, why on earth did the RE92 make it onto the turbos in the markets where the USDM is sold? Sure I can see the NA motors not requiring top end rubber, but the turbo? Middling rubber is a big killer of desirability IMHO, and I'd have thought that'd be obvious in this day and age. I'd have to wager that one of the reasons for the collective yawn from the US mags on the Leggy has to do with the lack of rubber to keep the performance truly hi on the blacktop. To whom do we look for answers? Well, the buck obviously stops with SoA. However, the wants and needs of Joe Avg have a whole lot to do with it, and the car is obviously still aimed at that part of the market, for better or worse. Do we blame a company that listens to the market place? Or blame the market place? Personally I'd look for some extra leadership from the top at SoA, but that's easy to say from Japan... An easy out, although probably not hugely popular, would be to offer a premium tyre and wheel package. Not just a mega buck forged alloy + great tyre pack, but one that adds better rubber to std (or parts bin) wheels for reasonable money. It is too late for many (who have either bought already, or gone elsewhere), but may help some make the trip down to their local dealers to see what all the fuss is about when you have a turbo Legacy with REAL schtick. Maybe the 3.0R spec B will spawn a turbo spec B for the USDM? Who knows... I hope for the sake of the line-up that it does. I see all the signs of the Legacy being another solid performance for Subaru, but not the hit it needs to be :( And to stand out, you, Subaru, at the very least need some better rubber on the turbo Legacy. All IMHO of course. <cue never being asked to another event, ever> :wink:

[B4_Maniac]

Apex Japan, and Apex Japan 2. Realy good posts. Thank you. Just to add to Apex Japan 2's comment about SOA wich I feel is spot on. SOA and SOJ feel like two diffrent companies that DON'T communicate wich each other. SOA just feels like a shadow of its Japanese counter part. Have you ever been to the lame SOA website?? Then the Japanese one?? Poit made.. B4

[outahere]

[quote name='apexjapan2']................. Honestly, the question begs to be asked, why on earth did the RE92 make it onto the turbos in the markets where the USDM is sold? Sure I can see the NA motors not requiring top end rubber, but the turbo? :wink:[/quote] Maybe 10 years ago, when the RE92 was designed, Subaru signed a lifetime contract for 100 million of these tires, at $29 apiece? :lol:

[gtguy]

[quote name='apexjapan2']Honestly, the question begs to be asked, why on earth did the RE92 make it onto the turbos in the markets where the USDM is sold? Sure I can see the NA motors not requiring top end rubber, but the turbo?[/quote] First off, Grammar Grandpa gives AJ2 major, king-sized props for not writing that the rubber issue "begs the question." This phrase, misused about 99.9% of the time, has mistakenly come to mean demands that the question be asked, rather than a stipulation of that which is already known, i.e. "To say that the RE92 is an average tire begs the question." If you use "to beg the question" properly in a sentence, it would confuse most people. As I tell my writers, "If you feel the need to use 'beg the question,' slap yourself and take a five-minute break. The urge will pass." Now, I wonder if Subaru's tire supply department hasn't caught up with the performance numbers boys in the USDM? Or, perhaps they're persisting in use of the tire because they wear well, are fine for 90% of Subaru customers, and don't have so much grip that people blow trannies playing stoplight grand prix, something that as Paul Hansen says, isn't all the rage over there. The RE92 isn't a particularly cheap tire, so I don't think that cost is the issue. Hmmm... Kevin

[SC GT]

The only reason why the RE92 isn't cheap is because it is OEM. All OEM tires, no matter how crappy, are expensive in the aftermarket. That's because most people will just say, give me another of what's already on the car. If the RE92s had to survive on their own, without OEM contracts, with their mediocre tread rating and lack of any remarkable characteristics, they would have been dead in the water long ago.

[apexjapan]

There are lots of possible reasons for the choice, and only the heads at SOA likely know. It could be that they get them for cheaper than any other tyre choice within the range of characteristics that they are looking for. Tyre wear is one of those. Unfortunately, good tyres are usually good because they have some stick, and that stick comes at the expense of longevity. Looking at people's complaints towards replacing nearly any wear item on their vehicles (including gas :twisted: ), and you can sort of see the progression of thought up at SOA, especially given that the Legacy/Outback is still a bread and butter vehicle for them. With other manufacturers it would have likely been the Impreza class, but for Subaru, the Legacy takes over all sorts of sales duties. Thus they tend to try for that lowest common denominator, the owners that do not want to change their rubber or brake pads or oil for as long as they own the vehicle. The Japanese market is a bit different, in that the average mileage yearly for a vehicle is still around 3500 miles. Many 'merican owners could cover that in one month. That low mileage figure has created a market for vehicles that have maintenance requirements that would be high by American standards, but are fine in Japan. Everybody and their uncle has wanted the full deal Lancer Evolution, but how many wanted to be changing the oil in those trick diffs every 2000 miles? Y'all want hi-spec tyres like the Legacy Spec B or GT in Japan, yet if you only got 8000 miles out of them on average, how do you explain to your wife that you really bought a M3 competitor? Solutions exist, of course. As mentioned somewhere else, SOA should simply offer a sticky tyre option for a bit more dosh. Given the pricing policies in Japan, though, if they did that they would likely try to charge you the full monty even if you do not want the stock rubber. That's what happens in the Japanese dealerships. Want the STi rims and Pirelli rubber, and you will pay full price with no credit back for your stock set. The Spec B was a fantastic change from that policy, in that they shipped a GT with upscale rubber and rims, suspension, pedals and even different gearbox ratios, all for a reasonale price. I think SOA will follow suit with something similar, eventually, but they seem to be waiting a bit. Probably for the usual reasons, to convince customers to buy a GT now, and then trade-up to the "sport" version later. Personally I detest that particular tactic, but I know it works. Cheers, Paul Hansen [url]www.apexjapan.com[/url] [url]www.avoturboworld.com[/url]

[crapy]

actually i have an impression on the USDM GT is that it is "reduced". u dont have high profile tires,home link, memory seats, xenon, hids, nav, and options, yet u can get it for 28K. however, if those things are added, it will easliy pass over 33~34K.....(even tho the options are not necessary to some owners), the price will be nearly the same as G35. so, i think, u get what u paid.

[Deer Killer]

[quote name='crapy']actually i have an impression on the USDM GT is that it is "reduced".[/quote] "duh" I converted yen to dollars once a while ago and it was about the same price. How much import tariff do they get charged? Besides most of those components would probably be made in the US anyway.

[crapy]

that's why i said it's "reduced": for the same price, but with "lower" level of equipments...

[05USdmGTgUy]

[quote name='B4_Maniac'] Or, my next assumption is that its the USDM suspension and its settings. In regards to the U.S reviews of the Legacy, they have all been in USDM Legs so when you compare the 05 Leg's supension to the prior models...its easy to be impresed. It is the best set up in recent years for the USDM. But its not the best over all set up across the model line (world wide). I can almost put moneyon if you put a USDM Leg and a Spec A JDM Leg on the track the JDM model will get the better time. The long winded point that I am trying to make is that we did not get the best option available as far as shocks and springs go..and additional support from a FSTB + RSTB and Sways could raise the capabilites of the car. If that solves my problems, I will smile and go about my happy way.. I just hope that my problems are not deeper than those items can fix. B4[/quote] This is newz to you??? we always get the softest or "wobbliest " of the suspensions in the USA. HELLO....thats why you change the stuff out. Mike....