Scooter Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 OK, so I've searched and read a bazillion spring posts, and I'm no closer to a decision. The question I want to ask is: given the published spring rates, why are the iON's generally considered to be "less harsh" than the pinks? If the pinks are 4.0/6.0 and the iON's 4.0-5.2/6.7, the pinks *should* be softer, no? I keep reading that the iON's were designed for the USDM struts and the pinks aren't, but what exactly does that mean? From an engineering standpoint, don't the spring rates dictate the ride quality, given the same struts? (I understand the differences between progressive and linear rate springs - not looking for a discussion about that.) One possibility that comes to mind is something I found on Swift's website, where they discuss how different mfg's measure their "linear rates" at different points of compression than other mfg's, and that leads to variability because no spring is absolutely linear. Should the pinks measure a little higher than 4.0 / 6.0? Seek first to understand, then to be understood. In other words: SEARCH before you post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsyGT Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Has anyone had a chance to compare any of these to a Spec B? I'd like to tighten things up some also, but I don't want the car to look lowered (certainly not slammed) and I'd like to keep some road clearance for steep driveways and stuff. tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperhawkLGT Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 These are spring rates from devobuzz's research: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20198&highlight=spring+rate Spring Rate F, R Stock - 3.5, 5.5 Pinks - 4, 6 Progress - 3.5, 5.8 Swift - 4.25, 6.6 Ion - 4.0-5.2, 6.7 From reviews on this board, it looks like the H-techs might have the closest ride to stock. Swifts might be the lightest (hence good ride) because of the material & thickness they use. . Now you all see my predicament, this is getting confusing. So I should buy H-techs? I'm ready to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 From an engineering standpoint, don't the spring rates dictate the ride quality, given the same struts? No because the shocks is what dictates the ride quality.. the springs prevent roll and slower speed actions of suspension travel. Imagine you are just riding on springs and you hit a bump.. your car will probably jump off the ground (big wave reaction) AFTER you dip into a pot hole.. it's like the effect of a diving board. Now, the shocks are there to cushion the harsh bumps and slows down the oscillations of the springs.. there's even a break down of the shock dealing with 3 aspects: -compression (bound, quick controlled movement along with the spring resistance.. if the bound is too stiff, this is where you get that jarring effect) -high speed expansion (fast rebound, like hitting the ripples, and get the wheels back to the ground asap) -slow speed expansion (slow rebound, similar to adding to the work of springs) Higher the compression of a shock, the more jarring the ride can be. If the shock's compression is that stiff, it wont compress and when you hit the bump, it will just shake the whole car and making the car wanting to just instantly jump into the air. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Now you all see my predicament, this is getting confusing. So I should buy H-techs? I'm ready to give up. I suggest Swift instead, that's my route. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperhawkLGT Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 I was leaning towards them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 No because the shocks is what dictates the ride quality.. the springs prevent roll and slower speed actions of suspension travel. Well, yes and no, but I'm not sure that really answers my question. I'm not looking to get into a discussion on the definition of 'ride quality', but stiffer springs on the same shocks are going to mean a harsher ride by the conventional wisdom. Perhaps I can ask my basic question another way: two identical cars, same struts (shocks), same ride height, but with different BRAND springs, but BOTH brands have the exact same linear spring rates. Is it possible for those two cars to differ in ride quality? i.e., is it possible to design two different springs that measure the same linear rate but have different performance characteristics? Seek first to understand, then to be understood. In other words: SEARCH before you post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTCanada Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Based on my experience (had them on for a few months), the JDM Pinks with the USDM struts are not a satisfying combination. The ride quality is poor if the roads are less than perfect. Choose something else if you want to be happy with your new springs over the long term. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperhawkLGT Posted February 4, 2006 Author Share Posted February 4, 2006 Thanks ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fweasel Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 My 4hr review of newly installed Ions: The ride is noticeably stiffer, as in, obvious something was changed. However, the ride quality is very acceptable to me and I was pretty apprehensive about changing out the OEM springs. I already own one sports car and didn't want that set-up in my daily driven sedan. ignore him, he'll go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyMtnGT Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 I've got the Ions on my GT sedan. The car feels great! Nice firm ride without being harsh. The car should have come with springs like this from the factory. Even though the car sits lower, I haven't scraped it on anything so far (driveways, speed bumps, etc) The only drawback is that the car really needs stiffer struts to take full advantage of the increased spring rates. They are on my "to do" list... Here are before (right w/no tint) and after (left w/tint) shots... http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1383/afterwhole8rs.th.jpg http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3232/beforewhole3eo.th.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesmaster Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 + 1 what? I agreed with Ions not looking too low in the rear of an LGT sedan. Also I agreed that the Ions rode very close to stock, and that I'm happy with them and don't want to deal with coilovers. I'm sure that better struts would improve things but the choices right now are slim -- Bilstein takeoffs or new Bilsteins. I'm not unhappy with the Ions on stock struts and I can wait until there are some other options that should help drive down the price. Ions on my LGT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperhawkLGT Posted February 5, 2006 Author Share Posted February 5, 2006 That looks decent, what rims/tire size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesmaster Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 That looks decent, what rims/tire size? Enkei Rp02 (15.5 lbs) -- 17x7.5 -- Falken Azenis RT 615 -- 225/45/17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Well, yes and no, but I'm not sure that really answers my question. I'm not looking to get into a discussion on the definition of 'ride quality', but stiffer springs on the same shocks are going to mean a harsher ride by the conventional wisdom. Perhaps I can ask my basic question another way: two identical cars, same struts (shocks), same ride height, but with different BRAND springs, but BOTH brands have the exact same linear spring rates. Is it possible for those two cars to differ in ride quality? i.e., is it possible to design two different springs that measure the same linear rate but have different performance characteristics? The difference will show from the # of wounds, spacing and the thickness of their spring metal and so forth.. it's going to vary some in that regard even IF the "linear" spring rates are the same (typically manufacturers will advertise its ULTIMATE spring rate). Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yebbey Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 I've done a quick read through of this thread and I'd say I"m in the same boat as you Bluesmaster. I"m pretty confused as to what springs to get...I narrowed it down to pretty much 2...swift and htech. I think I"m almost all the way sold on the htechs(the cheapest route). From what I"ve read they seem to be the ones w/ the best ride and not too much lowering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpetty Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Yebbey, I don't mean to be messing with your logic, here, but I have been a compulsive researcher on this subject for about six months now. I have read basically every spring thread there has been in that time, and the only ones that keep coming to the top are these damn iON's. I can hardly find anyone to say anything bad about them, and I look - - hard! H-techs seem to be the next best option, to my mind the Tein springs do not have the same level of durability, but I can't prove that. Swift seem to be as good handling as the iONs but stiffer. For those of us that like the fact that we didn't but an STi, but wanted the best of all possible worlds sedan, the iONs are the way to go, IMHO. That's where my crazy research mind has landed me..... FWIW, Morgan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henkle Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Bluemaster, how do you like those 15-lb wheels? I'm thinking about getting those myself. +1 on what Xenonk said; I was going to say the same thing. SuperhawkLGT, sorry if I confused you even more. Basically I think the Swifts has a brillant design where it has less # of wounds (longer spring travel), while being thinner (possibly lighter, depending on what material they use), both contribute to better ride. The iONs, however, are designed to give you sportiness while retaining close to stock ride (progressive rate). Same objective, just different approaches. It's going to be difficult to compare these 2 springs without a side by side comparison. Having used iONs for over 2 weeks, I think Subaru should OEM these along with the Bilstein shocks (found in Spec B LGTs) as their "sports suspension" option! Anyway, the reality is, you're going to compromise some ride quailty when you go with stiffer springs, but you can't go wrong with either one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfd425 Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Bluemaster, how do you like those 15-lb wheels? I'm thinking about getting those myself.They look a lot like the Gram Lights 57C's I've been thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Decided to go with the Swifts myself. At the price Gary (mann-engineering) quoted me, it made it easy to just go ahead and give them a try and see for myself, rather than to continue to discuss the differences and virtues of each brand. Thanks, everyone, for all the input! Seek first to understand, then to be understood. In other words: SEARCH before you post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt4Me Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 I have progress springs and sways. I got em from neverenough.com. Price was better then any group buy that I've seen. I also went with AVO end links. The springs are definitely stiffer than stock, and thicker diameter material. I don't think the posted spring rates on this thread are correct. Wheel gap is gone and they don't beat you to death on long trips. But to be honest I was sceptically at first from reading other's experiences but every things been great so far. Like anything, I guess if you don't install them right you'll have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesmaster Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Bluemaster, how do you like those 15-lb wheels? I'm thinking about getting those myself. +1 on what Xenonk said; I was going to say the same thing. SuperhawkLGT, sorry if I confused you even more. Basically I think the Swifts has a brillant design where it has less # of wounds (longer spring travel), while being thinner (possibly lighter, depending on what material they use), both contribute to better ride. The iONs, however, are designed to give you sportiness while retaining close to stock ride (progressive rate). The design objectives are a bit different. It's going to be difficult to compare these 2 springs without a side by side comparison. Having used iONs for over 2 weeks, I think Subaru should OEM these along with the Bilstein shocks (found in Spec B LGTs) as their "sports suspension" option! Anyway, the reality is, you're going to compromise some ride quailty when you go with stiffer springs, but you can't go wrong with either one! I like the light Enkei wheels. They are easy to clean, similar to stock in design, and offer plenty of space for brake cooling. I'm sure most of the steering feel, braking, and driveability improvement I feel from them has been from the Azenis tires but it can't hurt to save unsprung weight and have a larger tire patch. I'm happy with the Ion springs, but Swifts seem to be a good option as well. For more of a forgiving ride, the H-techs are probably good choice. Not everyone wants an all out setup for auto-x or track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperhawkLGT Posted February 5, 2006 Author Share Posted February 5, 2006 Wow you guys really aren't helping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesmaster Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Wow you guys really aren't helping Yeah, now that I look at my post it reads a politician wrote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_m Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 whatever you'll get, you'll prob be saying " damn I should have got the X springs instead!" just get the ions, yellow is a cool color anyways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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