06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Hi there, The original bilsteins were well dead by 200,000 and were replaced with low mile used on struts from a 3.0R which I understand were same as GT. Now at 250,000 and 6 years later the oe 3.0R struts are worn out. Not blown out but not controlling the car correctly. Changing lanes etc. Can feel rocking. It's time for new struts. The oe struts were actually pretty good but something sportier would be nice. Not looking to lower it as on our worse roads it does already bottom out occasionally. I'm wondering what people have done and feedback. At the entry level I'm looking at kyb Excel g or a bit more $$ for bilstein b4. Kyb cheapest is $600 set while b4 is $800 set. I will probably get new springs but only std height option is king springs at $400. >>> How does the KYB Excel G and Bilstein B4 compare to each other, and to the oem 3.0R struts? I can go back to the stock bilsteins but this is an expensive option. I can get a used set here for around $600 shipped, and then run the risk of them being blown. I can get bilstein to rebuild them but that is starting at $600 + shipping. And at the end of the day they were an improvement over stock but by no means a natural wonder. By the time I'm at $1200 + I'm at a set of HSD dualtech coilovers with custom spring options warranty and parts support. It's my wife's car and she would rather return the original bilstens but they're potentially an expensive option for what is in my view slight gains. Replacement b6 bilsteins are definitely out. That's a solid $2000 option. I've also seen Gabrielle ultra struts but don't know anything about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 11 Author Share Posted February 11 No one has ever done struts on their legacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Kyb = oem You already know what the Bilsteins are like, which is an improvement over stock. Assuming you’re staying away from coilovers, those are about your only options. I don’t think there are really other manufacturers, aside from Koni, if you’re willing to do the cut-a-strut treatment. (Do they even make a set for H6’s?) B6’s are mainly for lowering, different valving, etc… no point really in a daily that has stock(ish) springs. There are entire threads comaparing these things it you search for them, but end of day, unless you can take a ride in a bunch of cars with the exact same setup aside from just struts (unlikely) it’s just a matter or paying your money and taking your chances…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 3 hours ago, KZJonny said: Kyb = oem You already know what the Bilsteins are like, which is an improvement over stock. Assuming you’re staying away from coilovers, those are about your only options. I don’t think there are really other manufacturers, aside from Koni, if you’re willing to do the cut-a-strut treatment. (Do they even make a set for H6’s?) B6’s are mainly for lowering, different valving, etc… no point really in a daily that has stock(ish) springs. There are entire threads comaparing these things it you search for them, but end of day, unless you can take a ride in a bunch of cars with the exact same setup aside from just struts (unlikely) it’s just a matter or paying your money and taking your chances…. Honestly, compared to bilsteins ($2000) or konis ($1350 inserts only) coilovers are actually an option. I can get a set of hsd dualtech coilovers delivered for $1250 with softer springs. Is there a difference (if any) between kyb excel g and bilstein b4? I have read the kyb excel g is a bit firmer than the oe strut. Can anyone confirm this please? I can currently get on sale a full set of kyb excel g for $487 delivered but I need to move fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Bilstein b4 >> KYB Excel G BUT, until and unless you replace all the original bushings everywhere in the suspension + stiffer sway bars of any flavour, it's all a little academic. Maybe you already have those things, in which case you already know. But you'll get a lot more handling improvement from a $200 rear sway bar and bracket supports + some stiff endlinks than from fancy coilovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 46 minutes ago, KZJonny said: Bilstein b4 >> KYB Excel G BUT, until and unless you replace all the original bushings everywhere in the suspension + stiffer sway bars of any flavour, it's all a little academic. Maybe you already have those things, in which case you already know. But you'll get a lot more handling improvement from a $200 rear sway bar and bracket supports + some stiff endlinks than from fancy coilovers. LOL You been reading my mind? I ordered a 20 mm whiteline rear bar this morning. Already have superpro LCAs. This is all part of a planned suspension and brakes revamp which started with a torn front outer cv boot. Figured while I'm in there should also replace the tired struts. So your saying the black bilstein b4 (not yellow b6) is far superior to the kyb's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Ah, you got me. I was thinking b4=b6 yellows. That is a *big* difference. I think for the sale price listed I would get the KYBs and see what you think with a fresh set of struts and that sway bar + bushings… I have those on my cars except for the GT (B6s) and Datsun (coilovers). For many, that’s all the improvement they’re likely to ever need and use. Unless you regularly drive the car pretty hard, I kind of doubt you’ll see much of an improvement vs. the loss of comfort/compliance going to inexpensive coilovers, etc… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 19 minutes ago, KZJonny said: Ah, you got me. I was thinking b4=b6 yellows. That is a *big* difference. I think for the sale price listed I would get the KYBs and see what you think with a fresh set of struts and that sway bar + bushings… I have those on my cars except for the GT (B6s) and Datsun (coilovers). For many, that’s all the improvement they’re likely to ever need and use. Unless you regularly drive the car pretty hard, I kind of doubt you’ll see much of an improvement vs. the loss of comfort/compliance going to inexpensive coilovers, etc… Awesome thanks! If I go a more expensive option then I will probably just go the dualtechs with a 5kgF/7kgF springs. Soft by coilover standards, but still former than stock. Anyway. The sale price on the b4's is $786. $300 more thank kyb and enough for a set of king springs One option I forgot to mention. I can get Sachs for $500/set. How does Sachs compare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Someone else may have a clue there but I do not. I have used exclusively KYB GRs or Excel-Gs and Bilsteins on my Subies. Sometime you just stick with what you know. If I were going to get coilovers, I would look at Fortunes or something mid-range equivalent, but they just don't make sense for the roads where I live. Sachs are supposed to be good too, but I doubt they're all that much different that other comparables, and the KYBs certainly have a good reputation. I don't remember hearing from anyone that they had a bum set.... Maybe not stiff enough for their burgeoning street racing career, but that is another issue entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 3 hours ago, KZJonny said: Someone else may have a clue there but I do not. I have used exclusively KYB GRs or Excel-Gs and Bilsteins on my Subies. Sometime you just stick with what you know. If I were going to get coilovers, I would look at Fortunes or something mid-range equivalent, but they just don't make sense for the roads where I live. Sachs are supposed to be good too, but I doubt they're all that much different that other comparables, and the KYBs certainly have a good reputation. I don't remember hearing from anyone that they had a bum set.... Maybe not stiff enough for their burgeoning street racing career, but that is another issue entirely. I think kyb struts and King springs will probably give the 'sporty street' road feel I'm after. The thing is currently very soft. When it comes to Subaru's yes I agree kyb have a good reputation. From what I read Sachs are softer but who knows in this case. I was talking to someone today about the limited strut choices for these vehicles. He was surprised there was not 6-12 options like most cars. For most vehicles we can get 'Monroe GT's' which are a firmer shock which gives a really nice sporty feel and is priced regularly. But not available it seems in this case. I'm still tempted to get some used bilsteins but really these guys have priced themselves out of the market now compared to coil overs. Bilstein want $600 pair to do seal's and oil. Which is ridiculous. In reality I have more choice in coilovers, probably about 8-10 options ready to ship. I don't have access to fortune but from what I have seen the HSD dualtech is a very decent street option. It's a low pressure dual tube so it's a street strut. I might give them a call tomorrow and see what they have to say for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Ah! Should've put that together, the H6 Spec. You in the UK/Europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 5 hours ago, KZJonny said: Ah! Should've put that together, the H6 Spec. You in the UK/Europe? Yes ez30 spec b but we had to ditch the worn bilsteins years ago. Replaced with regular 3.0R struts which are same as GT I believe. Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 (edited) King springs have come on sale. I can do the kyb and kings springs combo for $750. This is the cheapest avenue open to me. Kings I have options: 30 mm lowered front and std rear (can use a spacer in front). 30 mm lowered front and rear. Not really looking to lower it. Has spec b 18's and is pretty low anyway. Anyone have experience with king springs? Or kyb king spring combo? Edited February 13 by 06Obsidian3.0RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 https://www.google.com/search?q=strut+and+spring+combination+site%3Alegacygt.com&sca_esv=40ad471a4e6b196f&sxsrf=ACQVn08RRodySIusO557SX_sP5miy4bD3A%3A1707833598470&ei=_njLZbezHLLIp84PopiU-AM&ved=0ahUKEwi3quP3v6iEAxUy5MkDHSIMBT8Q4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=strut+and+spring+combination+site%3Alegacygt.com&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiLnN0cnV0IGFuZCBzcHJpbmcgY29tYmluYXRpb24gc2l0ZTpsZWdhY3lndC5jb21I8T5Q-CZY5DxwBHgAkAEAmAGgAaABjAmqAQQxMi4zuAEDyAEA-AEBwgIHECMYsAMYJ8ICDhAAGIAEGIoFGIYDGLADwgIEECMYJ-IDBBgBIEGIBgGQBgI&sclient=gws-wiz-serp People have been chatting about this for years mate. If you can imagine the combo, it's probably already been done and written about. Most of the crowd these days seems to either be on Bilstiens and Pinks/Swifts/whatever, coilovers or staying stock/KYBs. Not a lot of options left for our chassis these days. even some of the high end coilovers are discontinuing support for the BP/BL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 20 minutes ago, KZJonny said: https://www.google.com/search?q=strut+and+spring+combination+site%3Alegacygt.com&sca_esv=40ad471a4e6b196f&sxsrf=ACQVn08RRodySIusO557SX_sP5miy4bD3A%3A1707833598470&ei=_njLZbezHLLIp84PopiU-AM&ved=0ahUKEwi3quP3v6iEAxUy5MkDHSIMBT8Q4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=strut+and+spring+combination+site%3Alegacygt.com&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiLnN0cnV0IGFuZCBzcHJpbmcgY29tYmluYXRpb24gc2l0ZTpsZWdhY3lndC5jb21I8T5Q-CZY5DxwBHgAkAEAmAGgAaABjAmqAQQxMi4zuAEDyAEA-AEBwgIHECMYsAMYJ8ICDhAAGIAEGIoFGIYDGLADwgIEECMYJ-IDBBgBIEGIBgGQBgI&sclient=gws-wiz-serp People have been chatting about this for years mate. If you can imagine the combo, it's probably already been done and written about. Most of the crowd these days seems to either be on Bilstiens and Pinks/Swifts/whatever, coilovers or staying stock/KYBs. Not a lot of options left for our chassis these days. even some of the high end coilovers are discontinuing support for the BP/BL. Yeah I have been reading and usually I find an answer that way like I did with the rsb and avo brackets and everything else I'm doing. But this time there was less consensus and more vagueness in what I read. And most post were pretty old. Decided I needed to ask some direct questions. But, like you say. Not much action here anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) There are a good handful still trying, but I'm no better than a backyard mechanic, and I really only know what I've driven on. There are a couple of GTs near me that I've been in, but the heyday of this Generation of car is passing. Just us handful of diehards that are keeping our old Legacies, so yes. Comparo questions about running gear doesn't tend to get a lot of feedback. Usually at best you get the "this is what I have and it's great".... I really like my Bilstien/Spec B stock strut/springs combo for the roads around where I live. I had pinks in there before, but even that inch of drop wasn't great for the speed humps and curbs, and I got very tired very fast of scraping my trailer hitch on stuff. I still hit it on things as stock height if I'm not wary. Ymmv. Edited February 13 by KZJonny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, KZJonny said: There are a good handful still trying, but I'm no better than a backyard mechanic, and I really only know what I've driven on. There are a couple of GTs near me that I've been in, but the heyday of this Generation of car is passing. Just us handful of diehards that are keeping our old Legacies, so yes. Comparo questions about running gear doesn't tend to get a lot of feedback. Usually at best you get the "this is what I have and it's great".... I really like my Bilstien/Spec B stock strut/springs combo for the roads around where I live. I had pinks in there before, but even that inch of drop wasn't great for the speed humps and curbs, and I got very tired very fast of scraping my trailer hitch on stuff. I still hit it on things as stock height if I'm not wary. Ymmv. In my view they have become a classic. They are a sweet car and have that perfect combination. But days as a regular car on the streets are over. Ours is now a second car and it's going through a bit of a revamp because we're keeping it as a classic. You do touch on an important several points. That the suspension even at stock height is low, and it has limited travel, and can easily become harsh. I feel like there was something missed with the bilsteins. I have read many times people prefer stock springs with them, which are very soft. Too soft IMHO. Anyway, your helping me out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 14 hours ago, KZJonny said: There are a good handful still trying, but I'm no better than a backyard mechanic, and I really only know what I've driven on. There are a couple of GTs near me that I've been in, but the heyday of this Generation of car is passing. Just us handful of diehards that are keeping our old Legacies, so yes. Comparo questions about running gear doesn't tend to get a lot of feedback. Usually at best you get the "this is what I have and it's great".... I really like my Bilstien/Spec B stock strut/springs combo for the roads around where I live. I had pinks in there before, but even that inch of drop wasn't great for the speed humps and curbs, and I got very tired very fast of scraping my trailer hitch on stuff. I still hit it on things as stock height if I'm not wary. Ymmv. What's your opinion on the spring combinations I mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 Gen 3 struts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KZJonny Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Nothing really as far as that goes. Not too many people I know on King Springs here. Just too much local competition for them to make sense. I have something like what you're talking about in my OBW, Rallitek Overload springs on Gen 3 KYB struts, which I like for the intented purpose, which is that I tow stuff with the OB and don't want it to droop much when I do. (I killed a set of tires because the rear toe on my car got so bad when loaded down with lots of weight in the trunk.) I don't think you'd be too impressed with that as a combination unless you never take the car out for spirited driving. I also have no idea if the Gen 3 struts for the GTs were any different than normal. At least in our market, Gen 3 GTs were just a regular Subaru with larger brakes, no turbo, no extra fun. Your market might be different, but this is largely a USDM forum, so anything AUDM for example isn't so much on the radar here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kojak Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 +1 for rsb and brackets. Fantastic return on investment in terms of something you can noticeably feel improvement. I’m on jdm bilsteins and pinks, like the look and feel of lower than stock but it’s getting old. The suspension and user. Looking at Kings myself, at least in the rear to keep the wagon from sagging while loaded. Anything you save on coilovers can be thrown at the Whiteline catalog to refresh bushings and accompanying suspension bits. Especially if you do happen to drop from stock. Haven’t looked for it in a while, but user Uncle Mat had an incredible in-depth comparison of suspension set-ups stickied on the old forum. If you find that there’s more info/analysis than any one owner/driver can impart. Good luck and happy motoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 Well I've decided to go the oe+ route and try to wrangle as much sportiness as possible. It's going to be kyb struts and king springs. I just purchased a rear set of std height kings springs for $98.99 AUD shipped. Open box KSRL-29. 345 lb or 6.2 kg/mm. Vs stock approx 5 kg. Will probably go front KSFL-42 progressive rate 160-270lb (2.9-4.82), vs stock 3.5 kg. I need to double check gen 4 kyb pn but I know they are different. Maybe just different plants. What I am excited by is the prospect of gen 3 struts, apparently they are much firmer valved due to the gen 3 increased rate. Pn is same au and us front: 334274 and 334273. Have not checked the rears pn yet. I'm probably going to give the fronts a go. Old mate here reports fully sick: Question is Rears. Are gen 3 rears stiffer also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 14 hours ago, Kojak said: +1 for rsb and brackets. Fantastic return on investment in terms of something you can noticeably feel improvement. I’m on jdm bilsteins and pinks, like the look and feel of lower than stock but it’s getting old. The suspension and user. Looking at Kings myself, at least in the rear to keep the wagon from sagging while loaded. Anything you save on coilovers can be thrown at the Whiteline catalog to refresh bushings and accompanying suspension bits. Especially if you do happen to drop from stock. Haven’t looked for it in a while, but user Uncle Mat had an incredible in-depth comparison of suspension set-ups stickied on the old forum. If you find that there’s more info/analysis than any one owner/driver can impart. Good luck and happy motoring. Yeah I don't want lowered suspension on these cars. More travel means more articulation when you hit an unexpected tree root in the apex. Kings are made 10 min from my house on the Gold Coast by Australian workers. Actually have an impressive range for our cars. I have read so many posts on this forum last 72 hours but did not find this one by Uncle Mat. If you can find it I would appreciate it. Whiteline/superpro/nolathane are all the same company, just different ranges. HQ 60 min from my house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 18 hours ago, KZJonny said: Nothing really as far as that goes. Not too many people I know on King Springs here. Just too much local competition for them to make sense. I have something like what you're talking about in my OBW, Rallitek Overload springs on Gen 3 KYB struts, which I like for the intented purpose, which is that I tow stuff with the OB and don't want it to droop much when I do. (I killed a set of tires because the rear toe on my car got so bad when loaded down with lots of weight in the trunk.) I don't think you'd be too impressed with that as a combination unless you never take the car out for spirited driving. I also have no idea if the Gen 3 struts for the GTs were any different than normal. At least in our market, Gen 3 GTs were just a regular Subaru with larger brakes, no turbo, no extra fun. Your market might be different, but this is largely a USDM forum, so anything AUDM for example isn't so much on the radar here. We got the turbo, h6, sti here. But KYB same pn BOTH US Au. I read somewhere USDM gt got same struts, just 25% stiffer springs. Word is gen 3 front struts are significantly stiffer than gen 4. Are gen 3 rear struts stiffer than gen 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
06Obsidian3.0RB Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 Just pulled the trigger on the front springs. $155 AUD shipped. May need a spacer to raise to stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now