Roll center kit?

[Emjayex]

So, Ive been seeing some things about how lowering a subie will mess up the roll center stuff. I own a 98 legacy outback, and want to lower it a tad. Ive been researching a bit on supporting mods needed when installing coilovers. What comes in a roll center correction kit?

I have an extra set of brand new tie rods and balljoints I just havent had the time to put on my car yet, but it seems like all the roll center kits I see are just tie rod ends and then balljoints. Any insight is very much appreciated

[KZJonny]

That is essentially all they are, just with the ball joint/tie rod end attachment point "relocated" to keep the swing and travel of the other suspension parts in the "right" place when you've lowered the car a bunch.

Unless you are really taking some height out of the car, I wouldn't worry too much, there is always some benefit to using a roll centre correction setup, but you're likely better off using some adjustable control arms in the rear, and the front has a reasonable amount of camber adjustment already. Plenty of folks here slightly lowered and still using OE-style parts with not complaints.

If you have a good alignment place your trust, install the coilovers and set the height. Bring the car to the shop and ask them for whatever wheel camber/toe/etc... you want, and ask if they think you need the RCC kit. Many places will do an assessment for $X, then let you put that towards the alignment when you have it done. Gives you a chance to go and buy parts that maybe you didn't realize needed replacing before spending the money on the job.

Might prevent you from buying parts you don't need. And OE type suspension parts are available everywhere for reasonable $$, where RCC stuff is special order and not cheap.

[Emjayex]

6 hours ago, KZJonny said:

That is essentially all they are, just with the ball joint/tie rod end attachment point "relocated" to keep the swing and travel of the other suspension parts in the "right" place when you've lowered the car a bunch.

Unless you are really taking some height out of the car, I wouldn't worry too much, there is always some benefit to using a roll centre correction setup, but you're likely better off using some adjustable control arms in the rear, and the front has a reasonable amount of camber adjustment already. Plenty of folks here slightly lowered and still using OE-style parts with not complaints.

If you have a good alignment place your trust, install the coilovers and set the height. Bring the car to the shop and ask them for whatever wheel camber/toe/etc... you want, and ask if they think you need the RCC kit. Many places will do an assessment for $X, then let you put that towards the alignment when you have it done. Gives you a chance to go and buy parts that maybe you didn't realize needed replacing before spending the money on the job.

Might prevent you from buying parts you don't need. And OE type suspension parts are available everywhere for reasonable $$, where RCC stuff is special order and not cheap.

Oh man! THIS is the kind of answer I needed!!! Thanks SO much man, I really appreciate it! Im building on a tight budget and Im trying to figure out what I absolutely need, and what I might just want lol

(Building a car is a big want in general though lol)

Thank you SO much

[Emjayex]

I guess that begs another question though, Ive done a little research on it, but are there any other necessary supporting mods for coilovers?

Like maybe adjustable sway bar endlinks?

[KZJonny]

Kk... If you are building on a budget, my first question is why coilovers?

Serious question. What are you trying to acheive, how will you be using the car? If the answer doesn't involve track use semi-regularly, why are you spending money on coilovers?

A good set of say KYB or maybe takeoff Bilstein struts + lowering springs will get you the little drop you want, and also probably all the aggressive handling increases you're likely to be able to take advantage of.

Decent struts and spring + the best tires you can afford  >>> inexpensive coilovers and mediocre tires.

 

If, for whatever reason you think you really need them, then go for it. Changing to a set of solid endlinks is always a good idea, but I don't see the need for adjustables, no. Unless you plan on corner balancing the car, and really getting into the weeds with say... autocross or track work.

 

Someone is always going to be happy to sell you a thing, or spend your money for you. Maybe take a step back and post up what you intend to do with the car etc.... Plenty of folks here putting down some mad track times on Koni cut-a-struts and some Swift springs or what have you. Learn from folks who've done it before.

 

[Emjayex]

1 hour ago, KZJonny said:

Kk... If you are building on a budget, my first question is why coilovers?

Serious question. What are you trying to acheive, how will you be using the car? If the answer doesn't involve track use semi-regularly, why are you spending money on coilovers?

A good set of say KYB or maybe takeoff Bilstein struts + lowering springs will get you the little drop you want, and also probably all the aggressive handling increases you're likely to be able to take advantage of.

Decent struts and spring + the best tires you can afford  >>> inexpensive coilovers and mediocre tires.

 

If, for whatever reason you think you really need them, then go for it. Changing to a set of solid endlinks is always a good idea, but I don't see the need for adjustables, no. Unless you plan on corner balancing the car, and really getting into the weeds with say... autocross or track work.

 

Someone is always going to be happy to sell you a thing, or spend your money for you. Maybe take a step back and post up what you intend to do with the car etc.... Plenty of folks here putting down some mad track times on Koni cut-a-struts and some Swift springs or what have you. Learn from folks who've done it before.

 

I just looked up KYB struts, and I didnt realize how affordable they were! I am mostly DD'ing the car and maybe want to dabble in autox too.

Ive read and heard some good things about Raceland coils on daily's that arent slammed to the ground. So for 500 bucks I wanted to get em, especially with the lifetime warranty.

But now that I know KYBs are as affordable as they are I just might go that route. I think I looked up Bilstein once and they were a bit more expensive than I was expecting (with a set of lowering springs of course). Im trying to budget coilovers/struts & springs, wheels and tires, and keep it under what I paid for my leggy. 

I really appreciate the input man, and after this winter I think I just might pick up some KYB struts! 

And lowering spring suggestions other than swift springs? (Just curious)

[KZJonny]

So, KYB are pretty much OE, but if yours are old/original, they'll still be an improvement. Look at rockauto.com for those, Bilstien B6 (OE Spec B replacement) and maybe Bilstien B8s (expensive, and designed for lowered cars). The reality is you gotta pay to play.

I'll go out on a limb and tell you straight up that at $500 set of coilovers will be garbage. Warranty or not, you probably won't like the ride in a DD, and I seriously doubt they'll help you much if you do some casual autox.

Worth remembering that coilovers are probably going to need a rebuild well before an OE type strut, which is designed for long life and 'comfort' for quite a while... like 80-100k (kms, I'm in metric).

Take a look around for a used JDM parts importer, or talk to @Enlight about his importing service. I paid ~$500 CAD for a set of "low mileage" Bilstien struts w/ Spec B springs on them for my wagon. Huuuge improvement over stock, and believe me they keep the car pretty well planted on some aggressive driving over twisty roads. Those + a improved rear sway bar + a set of Continental DW06s and the car handles well under duress.

I am pretty sure that Rallitek still offers springs, Tein, Eibach (expensive but awesome), maybe King? Takeoffs from STi's are common and well liked. Referred to as 'pinks'.... because, well they are pink.

There is probably less selection for you since you are working on a much older car, and one that never had the aftermarket support that the much more common 4th gens did.... But, do some research and figure it out. Have a look at yahoo auctions japan, there will for sure be something or buyee for the english translated comparable....

[Emjayex]

13 minutes ago, KZJonny said:

So, KYB are pretty much OE, but if yours are old/original, they'll still be an improvement. Look at rockauto.com for those, Bilstien B6 (OE Spec B replacement) and maybe Bilstien B8s (expensive, and designed for lowered cars). The reality is you gotta pay to play.

I'll go out on a limb and tell you straight up that at $500 set of coilovers will be garbage. Warranty or not, you probably won't like the ride in a DD, and I seriously doubt they'll help you much if you do some casual autox.

Worth remembering that coilovers are probably going to need a rebuild well before an OE type strut, which is designed for long life and 'comfort' for quite a while... like 80-100k (kms, I'm in metric).

Take a look around for a used JDM parts importer, or talk to @Enlight about his importing service. I paid ~$500 CAD for a set of "low mileage" Bilstien struts w/ Spec B springs on them for my wagon. Huuuge improvement over stock, and believe me they keep the car pretty well planted on some aggressive driving over twisty roads. Those + a improved rear sway bar + a set of Continental DW06s and the car handles well under duress.

I am pretty sure that Rallitek still offers springs, Tein, Eibach (expensive but awesome), maybe King? Takeoffs from STi's are common and well liked. Referred to as 'pinks'.... because, well they are pink.

There is probably less selection for you since you are working on a much older car, and one that never had the aftermarket support that the much more common 4th gens did.... But, do some research and figure it out. Have a look at yahoo auctions japan, there will for sure be something or buyee for the english translated comparable....

I know a lot of suspension stuff from 02-07 wrx's fit on my car, so yes Ill keep doin research on it all. Right now, my current struts/shocks seem to have been replaced very recently. Im guessing less than 20k miles on em. Would it be worth just throwing lowering springs on my current shocks?

I found these struts for $160. Do you think they will be good enough or close enough to oem spec? The price definitely caught my eye lol

https://newparts.com/product/fcs-auto-parts/NP3992173Kit

Again, thank you so much, I cant find too much info on my car in general, so this helps so much! Im so excited to know that there really are tried and true budget setups

[KZJonny]

You get what you pay for dude.

If you are thinking of keeping this thing for a while, consider KYB to be the minimum quality level you want to install. If you are not installing yourself, then you're wasting money paying somone to install cheap parts, and will have to do it again sooner than later. If you've got newish struts in there, then spend your limited money on lowering springs and ride them until the struts die, then get better struts.

No offense intended, but "spirited driving" and  "dabbling in autox" do not coincide with the cheapest parts available for a car. I mean, you CAN, but you probably won't enjoy it much.

Consider that most people would say the BC/BR coilovers, or Fortune 500s or whoever are "okay/not great/do the job" and they are $1000, etc....

Stuff that is considerd legit good, race ready (KW, RC Tarmacs, etc..) are like $2500, so just keep those benchmarks in mind as an indicator of quality vs. cost.

Plenty in between, but that's where you start seeing some quality parts.

[KZJonny]

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/subaru,1998,legacy,2.5l+h4,1305504,suspension,shock+/+strut,7556

Plenty here to choose from, and RA is a well respected supplier. There is always a 5% discount code available by googling for it.

[Emjayex]

Ahh gotcha. I am planning to do all the work myself, and I think I will just rock the current struts for now. Ill try and remember not to cheap out on everything. I guess its pretty obvious that Im new to modding cars (its my first car)

Thanks for not being snobby about everything and being patient with a newbie!

[KZJonny]

Hey dude, we all start somewhere. Enjoy the 1st gen wagon. I miss my '02 Outback, wish I had kept it.

If I can suggest a thing, start with a thorough looking over of all the rubber parts in the suspension. All the bushings and mounts. Everywhere. (control arm bushings, sub frame and differential bushing, engine mounts, trans mounts, etc...)

They are typically cheap to get, and while they *may* be a nightmare to remove and replace (rust, seized bolts, etc...) you might be very surprise at how much of a difference in driving experience you get from replacing as many as you can. Even with normal OE-type bushings... You can put fancy coilovers or struts on the car for street cred and a lower ride, but if all the parts that are actually doing the work to keep the car driving as it should are old and dry-rotted, guess how that's gonna feel?

'98 is pretty old and anything original will probably be pretty stuff and likely on the way out, if it hasn't been replaced already. You will also learn an absolute shitstack about how everything under the car works, etc....

That + the best tires you can afford will gain you the best possible return on your modifying dollars.

[Emjayex]

1 hour ago, KZJonny said:

Hey dude, we all start somewhere. Enjoy the 1st gen wagon. I miss my '02 Outback, wish I had kept it.

If I can suggest a thing, start with a thorough looking over of all the rubber parts in the suspension. All the bushings and mounts. Everywhere. (control arm bushings, sub frame and differential bushing, engine mounts, trans mounts, etc...)

They are typically cheap to get, and while they *may* be a nightmare to remove and replace (rust, seized bolts, etc...) you might be very surprise at how much of a difference in driving experience you get from replacing as many as you can. Even with normal OE-type bushings... You can put fancy coilovers or struts on the car for street cred and a lower ride, but if all the parts that are actually doing the work to keep the car driving as it should are old and dry-rotted, guess how that's gonna feel?

'98 is pretty old and anything original will probably be pretty stuff and likely on the way out, if it hasn't been replaced already. You will also learn an absolute shitstack about how everything under the car works, etc....

That + the best tires you can afford will gain you the best possible return on your modifying dollars.

Thanks man, will do!