Sonder Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) Ok, folks this is what I have going on. I had my upper intake manifold gaskets replaced today. I trust the shop who did it, but I need to take it back. Its running rough " I think a vacuum hose is not on all the way or something”. When I initially when to start it when I picked her up it took 4 times to get her to start. Almost like she was not getting any gas. The RPM’s run higher than normal when I coast to a stop. My Soob idles at 800 RPM and it normally does not take that much time to go down to 800 as I coast to a stop. Now she’s hanging 1200 rpm and she’s still anxious to keep moving. The same can be said for the pressing the gas she almost lurches forward. So, I am thinking vacuum line. What do you guys think? Also are these hoses (see photo) connected correctly? The replaced the following: Throttle Body Gasket Fuel injector o rings Intake Manifold Gasket EGR Gasket and they cleaned the throttle body. She purred like a kitten when I took her in there and now she’s as rough as a cob! I know the shop will stand behind their work, but wanted to hear from the more experienced ppl around here!! Thank you, folks! Sonder Yes, I attached that Q clamp already Edited March 2, 2023 by Sonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 The fuel line made me nervous but it appears to be on all the way. I would have thought if it was not fuel would be coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 I'm at the shop n test drove it. He agrees it could be a vacuum line or a fuel injector seal that's not seated properly. On a side note it's nice to see a local small business garage that's willing to listen and make the consumer the priority. Stay tuned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 Ok, he threw it on the live scanner and sprayed brake cleaner all around the hoses and seals. Nothing showed any reaction to the cleaner, but now the vehicle shows a bank 1 lean stored code. Before that was my front o2 sensor that I replaced 13 months ago. I am gonna replace both o2 sensors and see if this issue goes away. Until then at idle she's gonna be a little rough. I will never know if it was a bad diagnosis from the dealership or not. In the big scheme of things it does not matter. Any diagnosis takes time and effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVAKeith Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Does the throttle body cleaning require an idle relearn procedure? (Or something similar) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 That is a good question I will have to research that. Good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 When I was a lube tech at a local dealership we would clean the throttle body vs doing the 20 minute idle relearn procedure when we would replace batteries. I just got to the point I leave the car running when I replace a battery, much easier. Plus, it's risky and makes me feel alive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder Posted March 4, 2023 Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 (edited) Ok ducks under the table " does the relearn have to happen right after the cleaning of the throttle body or could it be done at any time?" My throttle body was cleaned yesterday so I am to late? (stays under the table ...lol) Edited March 4, 2023 by Sonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 Instead of the idle relearn procedure, we cleaned the throttle body. It's just what we were told to do, I have no idea what merit there is in it, but the cars generally left happy. The idle relearn procedure is letting it idle for 15-20 minutes after the battery has been disconnected, and we didn't have time for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder Posted March 4, 2023 Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 (edited) Fair enough I'm gonna give it a go tommorow and report what happens The instructions I found https://onlinecarrepairmanuals.com/subaru-idle-relearn-procedure Edited March 4, 2023 by Sonder 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder Posted March 4, 2023 Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 (edited) Ok, not perfect but the relearn took it from staring at 1200-1300 rpm down to here normal 800 rpm. I still have an underlying issue and I believe its an o2 sensor(s). Its not running as rough as it was, but you can tell shes not running like a purring kitten. lol I have no dash board lights on but the dealership and the shop saw a stored code of P0171 when I originally took her in to get looked at. Edited March 4, 2023 by Sonder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder Posted March 5, 2023 Author Share Posted March 5, 2023 So, my next step is to save a bit of coin and replace both o2 censors myself. Stay tuned and we will see if this infact fixes my rough idle at low RPMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 p0171 covers intake and exhaust leaks, and ECT and MAF sensor replacements, never touches on O2 sensor data. alldata's "find a fix" says spark plugs have been the verified fix for that code. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder Posted March 5, 2023 Author Share Posted March 5, 2023 I will clean my MAF here in a minute to exclude that. Well like I said he ran brake cleaner all around the seals and the car did not react to it. I will have to assume that all the work he did is good. Thank you for the spark plug info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder Posted March 5, 2023 Author Share Posted March 5, 2023 (edited) Let me go over this situation again so anyone who has any other ideas can chime in. About 8 months ago I had my Christmas tree lights come on in my Soob. You know the solid check engine light, the blinking brake light, and cruise control light was blinking. I tried going to 4 auto parts stores and could not get the same answer twice from anyone else. I have a post around here somewhere for that. So, I took it to the dealership and they told me that I had a code the same one I believe P0171. Then they told me that was the O2 sensor before the cat. I then with all the lights on when to Summit Racing and ordered a new O2 sensor. I installed it leaving off the negative battery cable and reconnected it and the lights where poof gone. Now, lets fast forward to two months ago. Christmas once again comes to my dashboard. Now, I did not take it to the same Soob dealership this time and maybe it was the stupid thing to do but hey here we are. They found the stored code of P0171 and told me I had leaky intake manifold gaskets, and they did say further diagnosing maybe necessary to find any other outlying issues. So, they gave me their 1200 dollar estimate and I said thank you, but I will pass this time. I was driving to work the next day lol and shazam the lights went off. I thought o great lol. I was going to save some coin to have this done. I took the word of the dealership to heart and had the work done by a local shop that has a good reputation. Now, mind you my car was purring like a kitten as this point. Even with Christmas lights on the dash it never missed a beat. I had the work done last Thursday and pick up the car. Its running rough like she’s not happy. The gas mileage is below where it normally it. I did a idle relearn and its happier, but not happiest. Lol I took it back to the shop I had the work done at. He was skeptical of my claims, and I totally understand. After all he did not get to diagnose it. I only told him to fix what the dealership found. So, he hooks it up to his computer in the shop and shows me the code is stored the P0171. Says he would start with changing both O2 sensors. He says this in order to start diagnosing the problem we need to take logical steps in eliminating things. The other thing I need to add to this is I only feel the rougher than normal idle when shes below 1000 rpms I feel dumb cause I should of taken it straight to him to begin with and maybe I would not have had to do the gaskets. I don’t know I know it’s a roll of the dice and at times this is not an exact science. So, bear with me in the journey. Thank you for everyone’s input! Sonder Edited March 5, 2023 by Sonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 I'm sure replacing both of your AF sensors wont hurt. In my experience, cleaning the MAF doesn't do a whole lot and need to be replaced instead. If you have a friend with the same model, part numbers are pretty clear on the sensor, swap them and see if yours improves. Unfortunately a 380 does not interchange with a 38A, that car was triple unhappy It's a bit much to screenshot so I'll type it out. 1: Check for exhaust leaks 2: Check for intake leaks Repair any leaks. which you seem confident you have done 3: Check fuel pressure (340 — 400 kPa (3.5 — 4.1 kg/cm2, 49 — 58 psi) Check the fuel pump and delivery line if out of spec. 4: Check engine coolant temp sensor (value should be 167F or more with the engine warmed up) Replace the engine coolant temp sensor if it is reading low. 5: Check Mass Air Flow data (MAF should read between 2.0-5.0 g/s fully warmed up (as above) at idle) Replace the MAF if data is out of spec. 6: Check Intake Air Temperature data (subtract ambient from indicated intake temp, math should work out between -18 and 90F) Replace the MAF if data is out of spec, even if MAF g/s is correct. If your IAT data is within spec, it says to repair poor contact of ECM connector. 9.5 out of 10 times, wiring is NOT the issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonder Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 I will do just that and thank you all I want is my Soob to be happy x1 lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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