Servicing the Intake AVCS Gears..

[rhino6303]

You only have 2 intake avcs gears to buy. The 2 exhaust cam gears are plastic and most likely don't need changed.

[Tehnation]

You only have 2 intake avcs gears to buy. The 2 exhaust cam gears are plastic and most likely don't need changed.

 

He has a different motor, his engine is dual avcs.

 

I would send them to get serviced, might cost more but those bolts really are a pita. Outfront would run you 250 plus shipping etc.

 

Intake AVCS Gear Servicing $50 per gear

Exhaust AVCS Gear Servicing $75 Per gear

Edited January 9, 2022 by Tehnation

[blackobxt]

Food for thought, if you do have the plastic gears, why no replace them especially on an almost 20 yr old car? They are cheap and plastic gets brittle over time.

[rhino6303]

He has a different motor, his engine is dual avcs.

 

I would send them to get serviced, might cost more but those bolts really are a pita. Outfront would run you 250 plus shipping etc.

 

Intake AVCS Gear Servicing $50 per gear

Exhaust AVCS Gear Servicing $75 Per gear

I'm pretty sure he just has an 05 OBXT which is not dual avcs.

[Tehnation]

I'm pretty sure he just has an 05 OBXT which is not dual avcs.

 

Look at posts 28 and 29, he has pictures lol. Thats definitely dual avcs! Looks like op either did an engine swap or he doesn't know what he's talking about! But I agree with you, he probably has single avcs and only needs to spend 100 bucks to get them rebuilt, which is a no brainer considering you have to buy all that crap that may or may not work just to break the bolts.

 

https://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6053554&postcount=28

 

https://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6053555&postcount=29

Edited January 9, 2022 by Tehnation

[rhino6303]

Look at posts 28 and 29, he has pictures lol. Thats definitely dual avcs! Looks like op either did an engine swap or he doesn't know what he's talking about! But I agree with you, he probably has single avcs and only needs to spend 100 bucks to get them rebuilt, which is a no brainer considering you have to buy all that crap that may or may not work just to break the bolts.

 

https://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6053554&postcount=28

 

https://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6053555&postcount=29

He's posting pictures of someone's byild from Europe with a different cam gear holding tool. Not his.

[Tehnation]

He seems to think he has 4 so

[RumblyXT]

It's a mistake I forgot to correct.

 

I don't have dual AVCS on my motor, but single AVCS instead.

 

I just thought dual AVCS meant having the system on both heads on the Intake Sprockets, hence "dual AVCS", but I know now it means having it on both the Intake as well as the Exhaust Sprockets, sorry for the confusion.

Edited January 9, 2022 by RumblyXT

[RumblyXT]

He's posting pictures of someone's byild from Europe with a different cam gear holding tool. Not his.

 

Correct, I just posted that picture to show the tool this guy uses in Germany to hold the Sprockets from moving. I think the motor in the picture is an ej257? STi motor, not our engines.

[RumblyXT]

My point from the beginning was that it has become a norm to use the Company23 tools over the years for removal/install and NOT to disassemble the AVCS Gears after to see how they are inside (because Subaru says it's a non-serviceable item). When in fact they end up getting metal shavings inside, otherwise why does Subaru places screen filters inside the banjo bolts.. they knew..

 

It is imho a waste of time removing the motor when doing a rebuild, and not to servicing those Gears by opening them/cleaning and properly aligning them before install again. Does everyone do this? That's what I meant..

 

After watching a whole bunch of videos of the matter, I came to the conclusion that using the Company23 tools damages/scratches the heck out of the rotor/housing inside by dragging the small pin inside the Gear and in turn those metal shavings might circulate throughout the motor and/or preventing the Gears from advancing/retarding properly or ending up in the Oil Control Valves affecting also the solenoids.

 

Just because something has been done a certain way for a long time, doesn't mean it's the "correct way".. Subaru does NOT mention the Company23 tool anywhere in their FSM.

 

Solution: Don't use the Company23 tools and DO open/service the AVCS Gears every time the motor is removed.

 

Another preventive maintenance, though tedious but imo important, would be to check/clean the banjo bolts screen filters during every oil change, 3K miles or so to assure propper operation of the AVCS system.

Edited January 9, 2022 by RumblyXT

[JoeInOregon]

Wile are on this topic I have a question.

 

In the procces of upgrading turbo, I was going to pull the banjo bolt filter as everyone suggests it.

 

Now I'm wondering if I really want to do that on a car with 170k, after all this talk of trapped metal shavings.

 

I don't drive it much , will check oil often .

 

Has anyone added a different style serviceable filter instead ?

 

To make things worse I did get that awful cam sensor code shortly after I got the car.

 

My mechanic did the recommended OEM Subaru engine flush kit and oil change, code went away and never came back

 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Tehnation]

Wait, this is confusing. Post #6 you have it wrong, the tool you listed as the wrong tool is the right tool. Thats the tool you use to install the timing belt, and to hold it in place while you remove the cam bolt. If you have an impact gun you can just smack the bolt and you don't need any of those tools.

 

What cam sensor code?

Edited January 9, 2022 by Tehnation

[Tehnation]

That youtube video was for the exhaust cam. Check the nasioc walkthrough I linked. The intake cam isn't as complicated as the exhaust cam. There are no springs in our intake cams. Some of this information is all mixed up.

[silverton]

I'll continue to use the company23 tools, as they do work, and replace the AVCS gears on motors with bearing failure, replacing them is the proper way to do it.

 

Good luck replacing those screens every 3k miles, you have to untime the motor to get the ones on the left side of the engine as the rear timing cover needs to be removed, and remove the intake manifold to get the right side.

 

The only time you should be concerned with the performance of your AVCS system is when a code is produced.

[RumblyXT]

On a related note, I bought my car used, with a lot of miles (210K) and a few aftermarket parts installed: CAI, DP and an EBCS. It obviously came with a tune since the motor would have probably had issues by now without the it.

 

I haven’t been able to reach the previous owner who did this, and have no idea if there are any codes hidden. This tuning thing is all new to me too.

 

Would the car display AVCS related codes if it was tuned or setup to hide codes? Makes me wonder if it has had any AVCS related codes in the past and they are not showing up because of the tune. For the longest I wanted a turbo Subaru, but I didn’t know it was going to be such a headache with all this tuning thing, banjo bolts and AVCS codes and the slight overheating and what not..

 

I really like the car but I’m having a bit of buyer’s remorse, not sure if I should have stayed n/a and avoid all these headaches altogether..

[RumblyXT]

That youtube video was for the exhaust cam. Check the nasioc walkthrough I linked. The intake cam isn't as complicated as the exhaust cam. There are no springs in our intake cams. Some of this information is all mixed up.

 

Yes, the video you referred to I posted before shows working on the exhaust cam sprocket, but the Intake Sprockets on our cars are very similar (they do have plastic keys/metal arch spring, five I think inside each Gear). Or at least that’s what I saw on this other video of a guy that opened his Legacy GT Intake Sprocket to clean it. This one:

 

 

I have an Outback XT, not a LegacyGT, don’t they both have the same exact motor ej255 with single AVCS?

 

After doing my own research, I came to the conclusion the Company23 tool I posted a picture of is in part responsible for severely scratching the rotor/housing by dragging the pin inside the Gear due to so much torque used to break free the cam bolt.

 

The tolerances inside the Gear are crucial as mentioned by the nasioc article you posted.

 

As I stated, Company23 makes other fantastic tools, in fact I have 3 from them at home which were excellent in the aid of rebuilding my previous car’s n/a motor, but imho the tool used for the AVCS Gear, damages it inside. Imo, if you were to open/inspect one of these Sprockets after removing it from the motor, you would more than likely find this.

 

Just because something has been done a certain way for years, doesn’t mean it’s correct. Again this is just my opinion after my own research and will not use the Company23 tool to remove/install the Intake Sprockets. Once I do, I will post pictures of mine, we’ll see..

Edited January 10, 2022 by RumblyXT

[Tehnation]

Codes related to avcs are usually for the OCV,s. What code do you have? The intake cams run on oil pressure.

 

I don't use any tools to remove the cam bolt, only to align it for timing belt. If you put an impact gun on the bolt, it comes right out.

 

For our AVCS that tool is the right one.

https://www.oakos.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=355&Product_Code=C23-501&Category_Code=

 

The AVCS on our car does not have a pin to drag, that video shows a completely different style AVCS. Our avcs has only like 4 main parts and 6 oil seals. You are looking at information and videos about another style AVCS and coming to all the wrong conclusions. I never heard of anyone messing up their avcs with the tool I linked.

 

[RumblyXT]

Thank you for the pictures Tehnation..

 

The pin I'm referring to is underneath the rotor touching the housing, again it might be from the exhaust Sprocket as you mentioned and not the Intake. Can you please take out the rotor and show us a picture of it posteriorly, I don't have mine removed yet..

 

I have seen people having to use a 6 foot pipe to apply enough leverage to be able to brake lose those cam bolts. I don't know why they get so tight, but I'm sure such force would damage the delicate tolerances between the rotor/housing.

 

I have looked all over the Subaru FSM and it doesn't mention that Company23 style tool anywhere. I even contacted Company23 and put their reply here.. They came up with that tool on their own, but it doesn't mean it's the correct one to use.

 

Subaru engineers would have listed such tool. They have the best Research/Development as they were the ones who designed the car, not Company23.

 

Please see this video, beginning at minute 6:04 where he talks about the Intake Gear, the beginning was about the Exhaust. After minute 6:04 he talks about the Intake one

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by RumblyXT

[Tehnation]

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2441411

 

Has pictures of the complete rebuild. 1st post.

[RumblyXT]

^^Yes, I read it the whole post.

 

You mentioned on post 63: "The intake cam isn't as complicated as the exhaust cam. There are no springs in our intake cams. Some of this information is all mixed up."

 

That nasioc thread is referring to an Intake AVCS Sprocket so? I'm not understanding why you are saying I have the info mixed.

 

That's the exact same AVC Intake cam pulley we have on our cars and the one I was referring to from the beginning, it does have springs inside.

Edited January 10, 2022 by RumblyXT

[RumblyXT]

Notice the damage on the underneath of the rotor I was referring to before.

 

That's one big gouge caused more than likely from the Company23 tool exerting so much torque there. That is NOT mechanical/operational damage. Either it was assembled/removed wrong and/or it was improperly aligned and installed incorrectly.

 

[silverton]

If you put an impact gun on the bolt, it comes right out.

 

You use no tools, but are able to impact the cam bolts out? This just can't be true, from experience. Either your cam clearances are way too tight, or you're doing it with the timing belt installed.

[RumblyXT]

Yup, I have heard plenty of folks saying they rounded up their cam bolts when using impact guns.

 

Either try valve grinding compound so the hex key grabs the bolt better or use an extractor to losen the bolt from its head. The hex hole is not deep enough for the hex key to stay there, hence it ends up rounding the hole.

Edited January 10, 2022 by RumblyXT

[Tehnation]

I'm calling bullshit! That gouge is from the front of the camshaft itself where the pin is. I think whoever made that gouge doesn't know what their doing. Those holes are were the camshaft stub goes, the only way to make that gouge is by incorrectly installing the camshaft.

[Tehnation]

You use no tools, but are able to impact the cam bolts out? This just can't be true, from experience. Either your cam clearances are way too tight, or you're doing it with the timing belt installed.

 

If your replacing your cam gears, then most likely the engine is out of the car and on a stand. Mine puts of 1200 ftlbs of torque. I hit it once and the bolt is out! I have pulled my motor several times and rebuilt the engine about 3 times already within the past 2 years. I am talking from experience. Ask anyone with an impact gun how easy it is to get the cam bolt out.