silverton Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Now that you mention that, I do believe two or three cars that came through that shop ended up with p0011, and/or p0021 codes. But, even after replacing the cam gears with new units, those codes remained, so it was still a mystery as to what caused it. One was even a couple months after the work was completed. I do believe the filters are there to save the avcs gears, but i've read mixed things about replacing them, or just straight up removing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackobxt Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Now that you mention that, I do believe two or three cars that came through that shop ended up with p0011, and/or p0021 codes. But, even after replacing the cam gears with new units, those codes remained, so it was still a mystery as to what caused it. One was even a couple months after the work was completed. I do believe the filters are there to save the avcs gears, but i've read mixed things about replacing them, or just straight up removing them. Did you guys check the return passages for the avcs gears? I’ve seen it where the rtv blocks the passage when the rocker cradle gets torqued down. I’ve also seen people completely fill the return passages with rtv not realizing what they are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumblyXT Posted January 5, 2022 Author Share Posted January 5, 2022 (edited) Well, I haven't torn down the motor yet. But I know what you mean, I have seen others putting way too much silicone which is unnecessary and counterproductive. I think this tool works great. I haven't seen it being used too often here in the States. Andy is from Germany, notice the tool holds the sprockets from outside, not getting anywhere near the cam bolt/camshaft, therefore not allowing rotation and not damaging the internals of the Gear. Edited January 5, 2022 by RumblyXT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumblyXT Posted January 5, 2022 Author Share Posted January 5, 2022 Torquing both Intake & Exhaust Sprocket bolts I'm sure he uses the same tool for removal as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackobxt Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 there! Also the bolt had zero corrosion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 I bet damage is more likely a cause of too much rtv used on cam caps rather than the c23 tool. The cam cap has a VERY small oil passage to the gear and the amount of rtv needs to be minimal or else the passage gets plugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumblyXT Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 [ATTACH]294709[/ATTACH] there! Also the bolt had zero corrosion Good! Totally reusable I need to get that impact socket extractor, seems it's the best way to remove those bolts. Later on, just clean the head bolt with the grinder or a file and it's ready to go. Easy to install them, but so very difficult to remove them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackobxt Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 I’m a big fan of the tic fu bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 I’m a big fan of the tic fu bolts. Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Well, I haven't torn down the motor yet. But I know what you mean, I have seen others putting way too much silicone which is unnecessary and counterproductive. I think this tool works great. I haven't seen it being used too often here in the States. Andy is from Germany, notice the tool holds the sprockets from outside, not getting anywhere near the cam bolt/camshaft, therefore not allowing rotation and not damaging the internals of the Gear. [ATTACH]294706[/ATTACH] It probably has not been used here much it is so expensive. I have seen it too and would love to have it. I have used the 'timing belt' trick to remove mine. It works pretty good. see https://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5169365&postcount=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumblyXT Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 https://www.flatironstuning.com/tic-fu-cam-bolt-kits Holy S^$%$ lol $52 a piece?!! I'd rather spend the money on the best impact extractor instead.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 True, but your time may be more valuable in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackobxt Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Yeah pretty sure that’s for a set, I just pulled my invoice from when I bought mine $52 total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Oh yeah, that's for the set, not just one bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumblyXT Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 (edited) That's not so bad then.. I was going to say, $52 for a bolt is pretty steep.. didn't read the bottom bold letters Worth the investment then. Edited January 6, 2022 by RumblyXT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumblyXT Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 I've decided I want to try making the Sprockets holding tool to secure them from outside by their teeth. I emailed the guy and they want $280 Euros for it.. way out of my budget A little time consuming, but shouldn't be too difficult to make.. with 210K miles on my car it more than likely has damaged AVCS Gears and might have to buy new ones anyways. Thing is my car came tuned and I have not been able to contact the person who did the tune or whatever they did to it. I'm not even sure if it has some hidden CELs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 I emailed the guy and they want $280 Euros for it.. way out of my budget I told you. Too bad they're so expensive. Hopefully, someone will come up with a cheaper solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 What makes you think the AVCS gears are bad? Only time I would worry about them is if you have metal shavings in the system or if you damage them during removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackobxt Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 And even if there are metal shavings, I’m sure they can be cleaned out with someone who has the proper alignment tooling to reassemble the gears. There are plenty of cam sprocket holding tools and even a bunch available to be rented from auto parts stores that I’m sure could work. I don’t think it’s necessary however to develop a tool for this particular application. As I stated, the worst cam bolts I’ve ever removed were from my obxt (the universe makes sure my stuff is more difficult than the rest) the second worst was off my 1984 300zx ae. Either way the same tricks worked to get both bolts out, every other cam sprocket I’ve ever removed (believe me there are tons from every make and model) an impact has handled the worst of them. Timing belt trick and a wrench on the cam always works in the end. I’m all for you developing a tool, I just think if you were to develop a good one it’s be the sprocket alignment tool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumblyXT Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) The camshaft testing tool would be ideal, but I would probably need a scrapped camshaft and a welding machine. I can't weld. That's a great skill I'd love to learn Looking at the video from Outfront Motorsports, an outer jig is needed to hold the entire Sprocket from outside in order to torque the screws with proper rotor alignment inside. The tool I mentioned before could probably serve that purpose too. The only other thing would be replacing that weird big O-ring these Gears have inside which no one can get, if you want to replace it, or clean it well and reuse it. Blowing air in place of oil pressure through the camshaft simulates the AVCS function. Here's their video: Edited January 7, 2022 by RumblyXT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 And that might be the best thing to do as they performed the service with the proper tools.. But what I'm trying to say is that we might have been removing those gears the wrong way all along. Company23 might have designed the wrong tool because the Intake Cam Sprockets has those 3 protrusions outside. This should really be the proper tool to remove/install the Intake Sprocket/Camshaft bolt: [ATTACH]294693[/ATTACH] People just don't know their Intake Gears are damaged inside because they never took them apart after using the Company23 tool. Wrong Tool for the job: [ATTACH]294698[/ATTACH] With my car having 210K miles, I'm pretty sure there might be some metal shavings inside the Gears. Why not learn to take them apart and service them ourselves? I heard Subaru says they are not a serviceable item. But how could that be given metal shavings might end up inside and even prevent the AVCS system from working properly? Notice the manual mentions the 1st tool posted above, not sure why Company23 tool came up with that tool with the 3 lobes. Interesting. How much do the OEM Subaru tools cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumblyXT Posted January 7, 2022 Author Share Posted January 7, 2022 The OEM tool is around $50ish, but some have stated it's not enough to hold the camshaft to break the bolt lose. Holding the Sprocket from outside remains the best method, like with an old timing belt if no tool is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 I rounded out a shit ton of AVCS bolts with a blue-point hex. All of my woes were solved when I bought the SnapOn one. The fit is so good and not a single one has stripped since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) Same, I tried the company 23 and some other bits to break those bolts and ended up stripping a bunch of them. I gave up and just bought new avcs gears. And you have 4 gears to clean, good luck my friend! https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2441411 Heres a link to someone who actually did it, not sure if it was linked or not. Edited January 8, 2022 by Tehnation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumblyXT Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 Same, I tried the company 23 and some other bits to break those bolts and ended up stripping a bunch of them. I gave up and just bought new avcs gears. And you have 4 gears to clean, good luck my friend! https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2441411 Heres a link to someone who actually did it, not sure if it was linked or not. Or 4 Gears to buy new.. they're not cheap, around $150-$160 each. What does everyone do with them when rebuilding their motors? Seems to me the majority of people don't touch them and just install them the same way they were after removing them. Would that really be consider a rebuilt motor then? Not bashing on anybody, just saying.. I bet my bottom dollar they have metal shavings inside. Might as well send them all to Outfront for service then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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