Which model/engine for reliability? 4th or 5th gen? H4 or H6?

[Audioqueso]

For those that have own both 4th and 5th gens, your thoughts? Which did you like more?

And for everyone else, what's your take on which generation and which model/engine? Just putting out a feeler to see which are the models people go for and/or avoid, you know.

 

First, I live in Tokyo, Japan. So I'm referring to only Japan models.

I'm in the market for a Subaru Legacy wagon.

 

I'm trying to see which models are my best bet for reliability. Daily driver.

I'm set on a Legacy.

Not sure if I want a 4th or 5th gen though. GT or R only. No i models (not enough power for my daily needs).

I have always loved the exterior look of the 4th gen, and I really can't stand the exterior of the 5th gen.

BUT.. I prefer the 5th gen interior's miles more than the 4th. lol

4th gen's interior is fine, but really vanilla. 5th gen interior is much more practical with the consoles, doors, rear seats, etc.

I've never owned a Subaru. This will be a daily driver and I need reliability. So still up in the air about a 4cyl, 4cyl turbo or 6cyl.

It doesn't matter if it's automatic or manual to me. I don't plan on going all out in engine mods. Most likely just an exhaust for a nice sound. All the models I'm looking at are under 35k miles.

 

For reference, I drive a Lexus IS350, Mazda CX-5, and Toyota Sienta (it's a short minivan here in Japan)

 

My 4th Gen models

2.0R (EJ204D)

2.0GT (EJ204D turbo)

2.5GT (EJ253)

3.0R (EZ30)

 

My 5th Gen models

2.5GT (EJ25)

3.6R (EZ36)

Edited June 19, 2021 by Audioqueso

[dgoodhue]

I can tell you which one is clearly not the most reliable.

 

The most reliable is probably one of the H6. In the USDM we don't have 2.0GT or 2.0R, I can't comment on those.

Edited June 20, 2021 by dgoodhue
My wording was confusing.

[Audioqueso]

I can tell you which one is clearly not the most reliable. It is probably one of the H6. In the USDM we don't have 2.0GT or 2.0R.

 

Really? Why would you say that? Are the Subaru's H6 not any good?

I've been reading through the "Naturally Aspirated" section just to read of problems. I don't know much about Subaru engines, but my logic was that NA would be less problems than a turbo.

[Scubaboo]

So your choices are consecutive generations of each other, they are available with close to identical drivetrains, suspensions very very similar. Sized about the same. It will probably come down to styling. I went 5th gen GT personally.

 

I like the 5th gen exterior, that drew me in. The more modern interior styling just sealed it for me.

 

So what exactly made you decide on the Legacy? Get the gen that adresses that reason the best.

[Audioqueso]

So what exactly made you decide on the Legacy? Get the gen that addresses that reason the best.

 

I need a station wagon with a decent amount of power.

I will have gear in the vehicle that will be equivalent to having 4 passengers all the time. Hence why I don't want the i version.

 

The Impreza wagons are too small in the cargo area. The Levorg is perfect, but it's over my budget.

Why the 4th or 5th gen Legacy? I have always liked the 4th gen, but the improvements in the 5th gen interior are a big deal for me.

However, exterior size matters in Japan. Lots of the roads are narrow and sharp. The bigger 5th gen with a bigger turning radius makes a difference.

So I'm not set in stone for which gen I will buy. 4th gen for exterior, 5th for interior. But with that said, I don't know anything about the motors.. so I've been on here for the past few hours just reading through threads to see if there are any particular versions that are great or any particular version that is problematic, etc, etc.

[Scubaboo]

So its more of a utilitarian work vehicle?

 

Since you already have a nice selection of vehicles for other uses, you can probably go pick this vehicle more on utility I'm thinking.

 

Getting to where I'm going with less hassle would be pretty high on the list for me and the 4th gen would jump ahead on that alone. Win win that you like it's styling better too. Interior of the 5th is a big deal for you but if it will be harder to get to where you're going, is it worth it?

 

I've not tried the flat 6 yet, I am also thinking the 6 would be less stressed and more reliable with no turbo and turbo boost stress on parts and I dont see many complaints on them but I wasnt really looking as I wanted the turbo and plan to mod it a bit. Sample of 1 here but the 2.5 turbo has been reliable so far me so personally I can go either way here.

 

Are you getting an automatic? Both come with the 5EAT and are more reliable than the CVT from accounts Ive read, so either way here for me too.

 

Yeah I'd love a Levorg 2.0, sadly hardly any on the used market yet here. Mostly the 1.6 but the spec sheet looks underwhelming.

[Audioqueso]

Great feedback. I appreciate the info.

Yes, you could say that. I need it more for work, but will make this my daily driver.

Without going too much into it, I will sell the Toyota Sienta (minivan) for the Subaru.

The Mazda CX-5 is more for the family. I personally don't drive that car nor like riding in that car even though it looks nice. And I will most likely sell the Lexus soon because I barely drive it and it's about $800-$1000 a year I'm paying in federal fees + road tax (owning a car in Japan is expensive) on top of everything else. I love that car (and haven't had a single issue).. but it doesn't make financial sense anymore.

 

Manual or automatic for me. It doesn't matter. Whatever I find that is the better choice. Unless I find out here that one transmission is known to problems.

 

Interesting. So the 5th gen are more of a hassle or problematic than the 4th?

[Scubaboo]

It did cross my mind that thats a lot of cars for Japan!

 

I have mostly 5th gen experience and dont consider it problematic at all.

 

The 4th gen guys should be chiming in soon about their own experience.

[dgoodhue]

Really? Why would you say that? Are the Subaru's H6 not any good?

I've been reading through the "Naturally Aspirated" section just to read of problems. I don't know much about Subaru engines, but my logic was that NA would be less problems than a turbo.

 

I wrote my sentence in a confusing way. I corrected it. Though, I haven't owned one, I think the H6 are probably the most reliable.

 

I personally think the 4th Gen looks better as wagon if that is what you buying. The 5th Gen is bigger. I own both, I like somethings about my 4th, I like somethings about me 5th. For reliability I think they are similar except for the 4th Gen GT turbo failures which clearly the least reliable model.

Edited June 20, 2021 by dgoodhue

[nevets27]

As others have mentioned we don't have some of those models in North America. I had originally looked at the GT but I wanted a reliable daily I didn't have to worry about which lead me to the 3.0R. From all the research I've done it's one of the most reliable subaru engines. Since the 3.6 is very similar I would think the reliability is similar. At 35k miles, it's barely broken it in.

 

Mods are virtually nonexistent, but if all you want to do is exhaust, that is one of the only and best mods for the 3.0R. It also has a much different sound then the flat 4's, think more like a Porsche. If you have the option (we don't in NA) get it with the 6 speed manual. It is more reliable then an automatic and I'm sure would make it more fun to drive. The 5eat does harm the enjoyment of the 3.0R a bit. Depending on your situation though an auto is nice for commuting.

[Audioqueso]

I wrote my sentence in a confusing way. I corrected it.

lol, no problem

 

I feel the same way about the 4th and 5th gens. 4th look better to me. But the interior, the windows, sound, etc, etc from the 5th appeal to me more.

I didn't know that the turbo's were the least reliable. I would assume so just by logic.. but that's just an assumption. Interesting. Thank you.

 

 

From all the research I've done it's one of the most reliable subaru engines. Since the 3.6 is very similar I would think the reliability is similar. At 35k miles, it's barely broken it in.

I'm looking at a few. Mostly from 20k-35k miles. I don't mind going up to 40k, but the reason I'm looking at models with such low mileage is because of the reliability.

 

I get mixed reviews about the engines. In the forums, I hear the 3.0/3.6 don't have any problems. In articles, I read that the 3.0/3.6 are known to have problems because of a poorly match engine to transmission.

That is the main reason I started this thread.

lol... which is why I will be reading more and more before I choose which engine to go for.

Thank you for the feedback.

[Max Capacity]

Why does it have to be a flat engine ? IMO the inline engine are much easier to do regular maintenance on.

 

Or is the Subaru AWD system you main purpose ?

 

I will agree the H6 is the best option for low upkeep cost.

 

I have said before, if Honda made a car like these, they'd put Subaru out of business.

[nevets27]

I find the flat 4/6 subaru engines are easy to work on. Personally I think easier then inline 4, but of course depends what you are doing. Though a hell of a lot easier then a v6.

 

Things that are easy to get to: starter and alternator, things that will likely need replacement eventually. Can do both of those jobs without removing anything other then what you need to remove for the most part (though the intercooler will probably be in the way for the turbo engines). Spark plugs are actually easy despite being inline with the frame rail. Of course they are easier on an inline 4 but it's not hard on the subaru.

 

H6 is nice, no turbo to worry about. Less stuff to have to work around in the engine bay. The only "issues" I've read was water pump may need replacement at some point and that's a big job. I think I read the timing chain tentioners can loosen off a bit and you'll hear noise from the chain which will give let you know it needs some attention. Both are the only thing I read could happen but weren't "common" And the idler pulley bearing may wear out prematurely, but that's like a $5/5min fix.

 

Stock for stock they are pretty identical for power. The 2.5 has more grunt at lower rpm and runs out of steam higher in the rpm range. While the 3.0 is basically the opposite (this is based on the 4th gen). At least this has been my experience driving them back to back

 

As for the transmission, not the greatest no. But the 5eat is decent. Treat it well and you should be fine. It does benefit from some "tuning".

 

Wait.... Forgot you're in Japan.... I think they have the 3.0R with the 6mt (manual trans) there. If so that's a beautiful combination we don't get in North America.

Edited June 23, 2021 by nevets27

[jaylew]

For max reliability, any H6, but replace the headers / cats. Watch the skidfactory, Al talks about how the stock headers on the H6 are designed to heat up the cats quick for emissions but they are terrible headers and make the engine prone to detonation due to lack of flow

[Audioqueso]

I appreciate all the feedback.

 

Why does it have to be a flat engine ?

I don't think anyone said it has to be a flat engine. I said that I'm in the market for a Legacy and that I am set on a Legacy. I previously wrote my answer. Was it something else you were referring to?

 

I find the flat 4/6 subaru engines are easy to work on.

H6 is nice, no turbo to worry about.

 

Have you guys ever seen this video? This guy is super savvy with Subaru engines.

 

Wait.... Forgot you're in Japan.... I think they have the 3.0R with the 6mt (manual trans) there. If so that's a beautiful combination we don't get in North America.

Yes, the 3.0R is available in both.

Wanna know something interesting about Japan? The basic driver's license is only valid for an automatic transmission. You need a higher license to be able to drive/buy/register a manual transmission vehicle.

 

For max reliability, any H6

Thank you!

[nevets27]

Yes, the 3.0R is available in both.

Wanna know something interesting about Japan? The basic driver's license is only valid for an automatic transmission. You need a higher license to be able to drive/buy/register a manual transmission vehicle.

 

I see that making some sense as it takes a bit more paying attention to drive a manual. Though I wish the opposite was true here. If everyone was somehow forced to drive manuals first they maybe they would learn to not use the gas and brake as on/off switches, of course that would never happen.

 

Personally, a 3.0R with a 6mt would be a dream to drive, a dream since I'll likely never drive one.

 

The auto definitely hurts the enjoyment of that engine.

[Rcnesneg]

H6 is the most reliable by far - And I believe the 3.6R is a little better than the 3.0R and a little easier to work on. Also it's less picky on gas needs and has a better cooling system. The 3.0R tends to struggle with cooling a little bit.

[nevets27]

H6 is the most reliable by far - And I believe the 3.6R is a little better than the 3.0R and a little easier to work on. Also it's less picky on gas needs and has a better cooling system. The 3.0R tends to struggle with cooling a little bit.

Coolant issue must be a location thing. Watching the latest supergramps video where they took it too the track, yes it got hot but it's by no means a typical 3.0R and it was being tracked, on the stock cooling. I was a bit shocked how well it looked to hold up.