2005 legacy questions

[corvairbob]

it seems my daughter's new boyfriend found himself with a 2005 legacy wagon style car. i do not know the engine sixe or miles i expect it is an auto trans.

 

anyway she asked me if i can help him figure out a few things going on with his car. she said the check engine light is on steady and the cruise control flashes, seems the guy he got it from said the cat may be failing? i have not yet scanned for codes. if these cars are like some american car the b1s2 02 sensor is the cat sensor for the cat efficiency, and if so you may be able to set the 02 in one of those spark plug adapters to set the 02 back out of the exhaust stream and not have it set a code? i had to do that for my s10

 

 

also she said the drivers door window fails, i expect to find a fuse or switch

 

also she said the passenger side blows cold and driver side blow warm air. again may be a fuse or a vent motor on the passenger side

 

also she said the a/c does not work, could be low on freon, or fuse, wires, a switch somewhere, or just because it is cold out and some temp sensor will not let the a/c turn on.

 

so any ideas? for the most part i may get the heat working as it is like 8 deg out. and then work on the check engine light to see abut what codes it may had set. then the window and then the a/c as he will not need that for some time yet. if at all if i can get the window to work he can use mother natures a/c like i do.

 

thanks for any ideas. bp

[Pleides]

Don't drive the car if the check engine light is flashing. That means you have a misfire. Could be any number of things causing that. On our cars you would want to tune out codes for the rear O2 sensor. The front one will always read. If you get a P0420 (which you typically will for a bad cat) your CEL won't flash. You've got something to worry about there.

 

Your window regulator may have failed. You didn't provide a super in-depth description of how it failed to work. Window regulators are pretty easy but finding a quality OEM piece might be tricky if new is preferred. Hopefully you live in an area where Outbacks or Legacys are common cars as a junkyard part is probably the best bet there.

 

You might want to check your refrigerant. Could potentially solve both the A/C issue and the temperatures being different on either side. The compressor may have bit the dust if run low on refrigerant. You can always turn the A/C on manually on our cars. There is a sensor on top of the dash if you have dual zone automatic climate control optioned on your car. I haven't seen those fail before.

 

Good luck.

[Ninjacheezit]

Cruise control flashes when the cel is on in these cars. So it’s the same problem. Spark plug defouler could work as long as it’s not the o2 sensor itself(split wires or just straight up failed)

 

Most likely the window motor died. Had this happen on my rear passenger one.

 

The vent motor sounds like the correct answer. Look up under the dash on both sides and play with the hvac controls you’ll see what one isn’t working. Sometimes they just need cleaned and regreased or even the arm falls off the pin that moves it.

 

Ac not working I suspect either low Freon or bad compressor

 

All these problems sound simple and easy to fix so nothing to worry about. Unless the cat is clogged instead of just old and inefficient but trust me that brings up a whole lot of driving problems that you’d notice.

[corvairbob]

Cruise control flashes when the cel is on in these cars. So it’s the same problem. Spark plug defouler could work as long as it’s not the o2 sensor itself(split wires or just straight up failed) yes i figure it could work but wanted to ask. and i know to check the harness

 

Most likely the window motor died. Had this happen on my rear passenger one. thanks i was leaning to the switch but asked because every car has it's quirks i will wait on that being it is like 8 deg out now and he will not be needing that until it warms up

 

The vent motor sounds like the correct answer. Look up under the dash on both sides and play with the hvac controls you’ll see what one isn’t working. Sometimes they just need cleaned and re-greased or even the arm falls off the pin that moves it. thanks for this help it will point me in the general direction. this sill be the first fix i do being it is like 8 deg out. he needs heat for sure. and now i will look for some youtubes to see if anyone has the procedure.

 

Ac not working I suspect either low Freon or bad compressor i was leaning the same direction being it is a 2005 it may have ran low on freon, and or a bad compressor. common issues with any car that age. like i said that will be the last thing i repair if at all. he can just open the window i fis for him and use mother nature's a/c system, i still use that and i'm 70

 

All these problems sound simple and easy to fix so nothing to worry about. Unless the cat is clogged instead of just old and inefficient but trust me that brings up a whole lot of driving problems that you’d notice.

 

 

again thanks for the tips, it help's to get these just to save some troubleshooting time. bp.

[corvairbob]

one more question i found some youtubes for the passenger side cold and drivers side hot issue. can anyone toll me of the 2 motors are the same motor and they just use different white lever actuators that i can just pop off and then only need to get one motor? thanks

[Max Capacity]

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

 

The service manual may help.

[corvairbob]

do not have one handy do you happen to know the the motors on the heater box are both the same? i will just get a motor and have at it and be able to fix what ever motor has failed. thanks bp.

[Ninjacheezit]

do not have one handy do you happen to know the the motors on the heater box are both the same? i will just get a motor and have at it and be able to fix what ever motor has failed. thanks bp.

 

I’m bored so I looked it up for you . Based on what I see is they are all completely different. The mounting holes are different for each actuator.

 

Now here is something I should of asked first time around. Is it auto hvac? Driver and passenger have different temperature controls. Or manual? Where whatever the driver does it affects both sides.

 

If it’s auto. It’s 99% the bottom actuator on the passenger side.

 

If it’s manual. Then I honestly don’t know since there is no temperature control on the passenger side then. But sticking your head up there couldn’t hurt regardless.

[corvairbob]

ninj? i can't yet tell you that as my girl called me and asked me to look at her new boyfriends car. so i asked what model engine auto or manual turbo and vin so i can get those answer. i also sent them some inside pictures to have them get back with what system he has.

 

all i can say it is it 2005 subaru legacy wagon type car. i found some yourtubes and they looked the same but like you say i will not know for sure until i check. i'm hoping i do not have to take the console apart like one youtube shows.

 

if he gets it to me i will configure myself up and under the passenger side and see what i can see. if nothing else and it is the blend door i may be able to just push it into the heat zone and lock it there for now. and then locate a motor. by the your tubes one guy took one apart and the motor had stripped the main gear teeth out.

 

but thanks for helping me on this so far.

[corvairbob]

ok i was working on the car this morning. he called and said it would not start so

1. it has a new 800 cca battery might be to small for this car?

2. i tried gas in the airbox no start

3. i tried checking spark no spark

4. i jumped it and it started.

so the battery may be to small to show spark when it was cranking so slow

 

then i check the heat situation he got good heat from the driver side and warm on the passenger side.

1. the heater core may be plugged?

2. the blend door for the system?

3. the doof that controls between the floor the dash it di have heat a the defroster.

 

also i checked the driver door master switch and it feels like the drivers side switch may be broken as it has no resistance like the other switches have and all other windows do work.

 

did not do a thing with the a/c any thoughts? the vin is 4s4bp61c257378752 the subaru site calls it a legacy or outback 2005 Subaru Legacy or Outback Parts

 

photo of the heat control and the door switch

 

thanks bp

Edited February 8, 2021 by corvairbob
had to add some info

[corvairbob]

ok this is what i got from the subaru website for parts

 

2005 Subaru Legacy or Outback

VIN: 4S4BP61C257378752

WOBK - WAGON OUTBACK; 253 - 4 Cyl 2.5L SOHC EMPI NA; 4W - FULLTIME 4WD; 4AT - 4-Speed

 

a subaru parts reseller on ebay told me this part has this part number 72131ag26a. That is the passenger side temp control module. and it is the passenger side lower motor. does that sound about correct? he said those 2 motors on that side are not the same motor so i sure want to be correct when i take it apart. thanks bp.

[csaari]

I'm far from being an expert, but based on the VIN I think the car is a 2005 Outback Wagon 2.5i with an automatic transmission. (see http://www.cars101.com/subaru/vin.html for info decoding the VIN)

 

If it truly is a 2.5i then it should have the manual, single-zone climate control system. Below are two images from the owner's manual, the left side of the first one shows the controls for the manual system, the left side of the second one shows the controls for the dual-zone automatic system.

 

The manual, single-zone system does not have electronic actuators like the dual-zone, it's all mechanical, being controlled by the dash knobs, cables, levers, and mechanical actuators. And there is no left and right temperature control, it's just one control.

 

I have a family member who has a 2015 Forester 2.5i, and last winter the hvac system would only blow cold air, no heat. Turned out the temperature control cable had seized up and then broke off the mounting tab at the knob in the dash.

 

So you'll need to figure out what system the car has before you start buying parts. If it is a single-zone/manual, I'm not sure why cold air would come out one side, and warm out the other. If it's a dual-zone/automatic system, there are a total of 4 electric actuators - driver's temperature, passenger's temperature, vent mode (where the air comes out), and recirculation, and none are interchangeable. If this is the system the car has, I would agree you probably need to replace the passenger's side temperature actuator. I had a list of part numbers from a few years ago when I replaced my vent mode actuator, I'll see if I can find them.

[corvairbob]

thanks yes this one is the left photo. and it has heat at the drivers side and cold at the passenger side at the dash. i did not get a chance when i was at the car as he had a low battery and needed a jump start so he could get to work. so this weekend we are going to tear into it. some youtubes showed the manual system with motors still on the passenger side for the blend and i thien defrost. also some ebay seller said theyahve 2 motors with the manual controls so like i said i'm going to take the glovebox out for starters and see if i can get a peek at that side and what is going on.

 

some here also say the heater core is plugged but i kind of find that a bit iffy as the core sets inside the box and the vents just let aire out of that box to the required vents, but hey it just may be so, but first i will see if it is a mechanical part that has failed.

 

tell me do these get out of sync and need calibration if it turns out i have motors.

 

and like you say maybe a lever broke and the passenger side is half open to the outside and letting in cold air and takes a bit of time to get warm.

 

thanks for this update. now i have more info to help figure this out. bp.

[csaari]

Okay, so I spent some time looking in the service manual (that Max Capacity provided above) and it looks like the temperature control (left knob on the dash) is mechanical, you turn the knob on the dash, it moves a cable that then moves a mechanical actuator, that then mixes the air to make it cool/warm.

 

Now, as to the right knob on the dash, the "air flow control dial," the one that controls which vents the air comes out, that does look to be electronic, where the knob controls a motor driven actuator. Further, from what I can tell, it is in fact the same actuator that the dual-zone system uses. This actuator is located on the passenger side of the "heater cooling unit" which is behind the center of the dash, and like you said, you will have to take apart the glove box, lower dash, and center console to access it. I have seen this actuator called many things, including "mode door actuator" and "vent mode actuator." For the 2005 cars, I believe the part number is 72131AG09A. But, this actuator doesn't control temperature, only where the air is going, so I don't really thing that's going to be your problem.

 

You are correct, there is a second motor, the one that controls the intake of fresh air into the cabin ("air inlet selection" or "recirculate"). This also seems to be the same between the single-zone and dual-zone systems, and is located on the blower assembly, located behind the glove box. This either lets in outside air, or doesn't, there's no variable setting. I've never heard of these going bad, but it's always possible.

 

Hopefully what you can do is take enough of the dash apart to see up in there, and then I would start the car and have one person change the temperature and modes and the other person can watch and see what happens.

 

I have not heard of the motors getting out of sync. They have a series of internal contacts, and they wear out over time. Once the contacts go bad, the motor has no way of knowing what position it's in.

 

I found this youtube video to be very helpful when I took mine all apart a couple years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WOAp1KzmYU. It pertains to the dual-zone system, but should help you with the single-zone, too, as what you have to take apart will be pretty much the same.

 

I would also advise you to check the cabin filter while you're in there, it's also located right behind the glove box. 2005 cars are a little wacky. Some cars didn't come with filters, some had filters but no quick-access panel, and other had filters with the quick-access. I was told when I bought my '05 new in 2004 that it didn't have a cabin filter, and then like 10 years later I found out that it actually did, after the a/c basically stopped working. It did not have the access door, so getting to it was a real pain. Of course it was a dirty mess at that point, and the hvac system worked much better after replacing it. I have since retro fitted my car with the access door, so I can now easily replace the filter.

 

Well, hopefully you will be able to get in there and visually see what's going on, and then figure out what to do next.

 

An 800 CCA battery should be plenty adequate. I just looked at mine, and it's only 650. Even if it's new, it could need a good charge, or even could be defective. Also, it's a good idea to check the battery cable connections, and make sure they are clean and tight.

Edited February 9, 2021 by csaari

[corvairbob]

An 800 CCA battery should be plenty adequate. I just looked at mine, and it's only 650. Even if it's new, it could need a good charge, or even could be defective. Also, it's a good idea to check the battery cable connections, and make sure they are clean and tight.

 

 

thanks i will be doing a parasitic draw test on it to make sure he doesn't have something stuck on. and i will connect my tester for the alt to see if the tester tells me it is good.

 

it was cold over the weekend and he thought it to be cranking over good but when i got to it and had him crank it i figured it to be a bit low. he said it sat for 2 days/nights so at 5 deg that may have been a bit much for the system. but if it has a drain on the battery even a small drain can cause this issue.

 

thanks for that help on the havc he said the a/c was not working so you never know it just may be that filter if he has one.

 

some say that the heater core is the reason he is not getting heat on the passenger side! but i have never had that happen in any of my cars, so i can't really say for sure.

 

so i may do a heater core flush and see if that helps but if some come back and say no then i will do the mechanical test and service. and if he needs parts i will jam up the door so it blows hot at the dash or floor and then get the part and install it later.

 

so if anyone knows for sure the heater core can cause heat to be cold on the passenger side then i will flush it and that may cure the issue. but being 5 deg out and no water now in the garage i have to run a hose from the house and i just as soon not have to deal with that if not needed. thanks bp.

[apexi]

I've done a little searching here and looking at old posts, I'm seeing a mix of heater core and the blend doors in the dash.

 

Do you hear a "bubbling" noise near the glovebox after you turn off the car?

https://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5024100&postcount=26

[corvairbob]

yes and i have the manual one as one poster showed, if you go back to #12 he showed the cash and i have the dash on the left in that diagram. so because there is a bit of confusion as to it being either a core flush or a mechanical issue. so when he gets the car to me i will

1. take the temp of the hoses, oth by hand and with a scanner

2. take the temp in the cabin both by hand with the scanner and with a temp thermometer

3. actuate all the dials and feel the areas of air flow to see if i can determine the difference between the def the dash and the floor

4.then after i get these done i may decide to do a core flush or take the glovebox out and look at the motors and see what one it not moving or not moving enough.

 

i have not had enough of the newer cars that i had the experience with the core causing no heat on one side. and in all my years i have never had any car that pushed cold from one side and hot for the other, this blending side by side in new to me in repairs.

 

so this is going to be a learning curve. ll the youtubes i found all lean to the inside blending doors and not the heater core.

 

thanks i will return with an update when i get this working as it should just in case other have this issue and it was the motor and or doors int he heatbox, thanks bp.

[corvairbob]

ok it has been quite awhile and he has not had me fix this so lets call it done. i forgot all about this post. thanks for the help and if he does ever wants to fix it i have most of the answers here.

[JoeInOregon]

I spend to much time on watch forums.....I read this as my wife's boyfriend got an 05 legacy

 

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