DILLONGRIMES Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 About a month ago I purchased my first Subaru. I got it for two grand and it's in good condition so I think I beat the odds there. I looked at the Carfax, took it to Subaru to get a used car inspection done on it with a maintenance list, and here I am. Subaru said timing belt needed done, belts needed replaced, and the head gaskets were good. So I had Subaru do the belts and put the timing belts and water pump on back burner. Well it started overheating a couple weeks ago, tell-tale signs of a thermostat so I replaced it. Turns out they were running an open thermostat, whenever I put the new one in it it overheated in less than 20 miles. So went back to the jerry-rigged setup and had a shop replace my timing belt and water pump and thermostat this weekend. It overheated in less than 10 miles after I got it. Took it back to them and put the open thermostat back in it until I can afford to be down again. The jerry-rigged setup is not cutting it anymore and it overheated twice afterwards yesterday. Both fans are cycling, it's not throwing any telltale signs of head gaskets now, I'm lost. I plan on trying the radiator but figured I would check here first just to see if anyone else has had one of those problems that they just can't seem to fix them on these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Are you losing any coolant? How are your hoses? I had a pin hole leak in the lower radiator hose do this to me one time. We can run through a few things with troubleshooting. It's not your water pump or thermostat. It's not your fans. That leaves only a few things. A small leaking hose possibly causing weird pressure issues. A bad radiator (cracked or maybe the fins are blocked up with bugs and bent ones). Head gaskets. A blockage somewhere. Does turning the heat on in the car reduce engine temperature at all? If you turn on the car with the radiator open are you getting any bubbles? Try doing that with the front end jacked up some. If you're getting bubbles and can't find any leaks, I'd put money on head gaskets. The other thing to do is rent a pressure tester and you'll be able to tell if something silly is leaking like the coolant reservoir tank. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 Are you losing any coolant? How are your hoses? I had a pin hole leak in the lower radiator hose do this to me one time. We can run through a few things with troubleshooting. It's not your water pump or thermostat. It's not your fans. That leaves only a few things. A small leaking hose possibly causing weird pressure issues. A bad radiator (cracked or maybe the fins are blocked up with bugs and bent ones). Head gaskets. A blockage somewhere. Does turning the heat on in the car reduce engine temperature at all? If you turn on the car with the radiator open are you getting any bubbles? Try doing that with the front end jacked up some. If you're getting bubbles and can't find any leaks, I'd put money on head gaskets. The other thing to do is rent a pressure tester and you'll be able to tell if something silly is leaking like the coolant reservoir tank. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I cannot say if I'm losing coolant or not. To be honest I believe the only time I do is when it overheats, it will spray on the bumper cover and top/front of the engine but the radiator cap does not pop off or overflow cap. The hoses appear fine even though I had to severely tighten the bottom clamp at the thermo housing. I haven't noticed them leaking. The head gaskets appear fine and were checked by Subaru when I first got it, they said they were fine. There's no blowback in the coolant but there is faint white exhaust. I had the shop that did the timing belt remove the normal thermo and install the open one until I can afford to get fixed. They did pressure test and it held steady at 20 with no leakage. I'm leaning towards blocked radiator causing a restricted coolant flow to the thermostat. It being open will allow a constant coolant flow even though restricted it's barely enough to get by with. My opinion though. Now to describe the overheating issue. Won't overheat at idle. Will overheat while driving with AC on and off. Shift car into Neutral and coast, turn off and then key on running AC so fans are running. Can restart by time needed to and resume driving until overheats again. I don't let it red-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 Oh and have already checked relays and everything. All are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 That sounds a lot like my civic. A mechanic I trust tested it for like two weeks and we got to "Well I've tested the coolant for exhaust multiple times and it pressurizes fine but maybe a little quickly. I can't tell you what's wrong with it but I sure wouldn't trust it." I've done everything you have to it including new hoses and new radiator. It overheats if the a/c is on or doing mountain passes in the summer. Even though everything indicates the head gaskets are fine, I'd bet they are not. Also the a/c issue for the civic is a dying compressor causing increased engine load. I'll eat my shoes if it's not head gaskets. How many miles are on it? Also the aluminum heads like to warp when it overheats. Warped aluminum heads and leaking head gaskets above 100k are a common subaru problem for nearly all years and models. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 If it were me, and I really thought it was the radiator, I'd get on rock auto and order one real cheap. You don't need anything fancy and it's one of the easiest repairs to do. But I'd start considering whether it's worth it to put another 3k into head gaskets. If you think it is then who cares. Like I said, head gaskets at 100-120k are just part of subaru life. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 Got my radiator and upper hose (they were out of the lower) from Advanced and a new work light for $160. Carquest brand so we will see. Honestly if this doesn't fix it I'm going to just drive my optima while I replace head gaskets myself with good ole AcDelco instructions. Much like your Civic my mechanic said the same. It's building pressure too fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 Plan on doing the radiator tomorrow afternoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Good luck. Radiator is easy. Head gaskets not so much. I had never pulled an engine before my rebuild and it was a lot of work but definitely doable. Decided that I can get a replacement civic of same year and half the mileage for about $1500 so I'll never know if that is really the problem. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 Quick update. Radiator and new thermo are in.. still overheating. Has to be head gasket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 Got really agitated with it and drove it until overheat. Limped it home, coasting most the way. Parked it at 3/4 heat and made it redline to see where it was smoking from. Back of the heads by the exhaust. Could explain the pressurizing, overheating, and general BS surrounding this. Going to call around and get quotes to do the head gaskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 It's $$$. I think around here $3k is going estimates. Engine comes out. If you got the money and plan to keep the car, it's the time to do the worn out motor mounts and clutch if you have a manual. Not sure if pricing will be much different on the 04 or if there is other stuff you should do at the same time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berge56 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Where are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 It's automatic, priced $3,300 from Kelly Subaru in Chattanooga, TN. $1,978.99 from Greased Lightning in Ringgold, GA. That should take care of both lol. IDK If I'd wanna do this myself or not honestly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I don't take cars to the dealer for service unless it's actually necessary. Rarely if ever are their mechanics as good as an independent one but they are always more expensive. I'd look at getting any and all engine mounts replaced but it'll make the vehicle feel much nicer. You'll also get the timing belt and water pump replaced in all that (or at least should get the water pump) so that should take care of basically any problems, some maintenance, and you should get another worry free 10 years with an all new cooling system and head gaskets (give or take) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 The bad part is I already paid the shop $300 to put the timing belt and water pump on. Got on all data and printed the procedure manual, looks extremely basic cut and dry pull the engine disassemble reassemble after sending the heads off. I've secured a place to do it leaving the engine out for 2 to 3 weeks while I scrape together funds. So we will see. I'm going to try to do it in increments, by head gaskets this week, send heads off next week, and buy all my remaining stuff the week after. I finally found it by the way after all this searching. Your Civic has a blown head gasket, check the last one on this link https://haynes.com/en-us/tips-tutorials/7-different-ways-head-gasket-can-fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 I found for the cost of all the cam tools and everything, it was worth it to just take my entire long block to the machine shop and have them pull the heads. It ended up costing about the same and I didn't have to worry about stripping a cam bolt. I'd cut off enough bolts already working on pulling the engine. Engine out is something like 25 hours book time so you'll save a lot doing it yourself. Nice thing about the civic is the engine is so small and weak. I drove from bend Oregon to Boise Idaho without overheating even though the radiator was half empty. It'll air cool lol. So it won't get fixed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 Believe it or not after talking to several acquaintances at shops, all data, etc it appears to be 6 bolts holding the engine in and no special tools needed. Just have to limp the car for 3 weeks. Drilled holes in overflow jug cap so pressure could vent. Backed radiator cap off 1/4 turn. Drove for 30 minutes twice so far no overheating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I just pulled the engine on my outback a few months back. I'm not saying you're wrong because you aren't technically. For my generation it's 2 engine mount bolts, the pitch stop, 6 bolts on the transmission. It took me maybe 5 hours, pb blaster, a chisel, a pry bar, a bigger pry bar. Two trips to the hardware store. Just to separate the engine and transmission. Not trying to scare you, it's very doable. But you'll need to disconnect all the electrical, all the hoses, the starter, remove the power steering pump and a/c without pulling the lines (which is easier) so that means your accessory belts too. If you want to get all the way to taking off the heads you'll need to pull the crankshaft pulley, which might be easier before pulling the engine. You'll also need to pull the timing belt and camshaft pulleys. You basically have to disassemble everything. It's certainly not as easy as 6 bolts might imply. I'd highly suggest reading through the factory service manual first. I'd never done more than replace a radiator before pulling my engine and I got through it but it did not go quickly and I broke $200 in fuel lines. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 I'm full aware everything involved. Used to pull engines with my dad all the time in my teens. I have guidance from my uncle during it (he broke his back) so I'm using his advice when needed, tools, and cherry picker. Plan is to remove radiator, fans, all added BS that comes with it, disassemble everything to timing belt with engine in, and then yank the engine. Take heads to get pressure tested, milled, and pistons reworked. Total OEM parts to do the job estimated $309 with tax from Subaru (every seal and gaskets, spark plugs, head bolts, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Sounds like you're in good shape then. The biggest issue people run into is the two dowel pins on the transmission to align it to the engine like to rust. I pulled the trans from my friends 2013 outback and getting it apart took maybe ten minutes and we didn't break or round a bolt the entire time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 My only concern is upon reinstallation do i have to bleed any lines whether fuel or power steering or etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Leave the power steering pump and ac pump connected and set them aside in the engine bay. The lines are flexible enough so no worries there. Fuel pressure will build on its own. That's easy. No need to bleed that either. The important one is oil. If you do it not over an extended time frame, just pull the fuel pressure fuse and prime it a little bit you'll be fine. If it takes you a few months you could maybe be more in depth. You'll need to bleed the coolant but that's also not really a big deal. Once you've primed the oil. Turned it over. Checked for leaks. And everything looks good, follow the bleed instructions for coolant in the user manual. It's basically jack up the front of the vehicle. Let it run with heat full blast until the thermostat opens. Add coolant as needed. Repeat until no bubbles appear. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLONGRIMES Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 1/18 - 1/19, total 6-1/2 hours to pull engine and get heads off. Only need basic tools to do the job, hoist, 1/2" impact with 7/8" socket for cam sprocket, fuel disconnect, prybar, scraper, scotch-brite pad. Broke power steering/alternator tensioner bracket and fuel evap hose. Evap hose (oops, easy fix) Bracket (@#%%#^%#$%) 3 hours, 7 brackets and pumps at LKQ and I ended up changing the pump/bracket combo. EVERY pump was different. Be wary of this bracket in future, $100 new and only 1 in Subaru national inventory. Tranny bottom bolts/nuts and bottom starter nut are a pain, easily hardest part of the job. Heads came apart easy but jumped time as soon as i took timing belt off. Do yourself a favor and compress the belt tensioner with a cotter pin from the start. 1/25, 4 hours to clean engine, install heads, new intake gaskets, timing belt, spark plugs, and set engine back in car. ALLDATA instruction manual was unclear about my particular engine black head bolt placement. Didn't label which side was the front of the head so I just kinda guessed and torqued everything down properly in sequence based off black bolts. My cars timing was: Passenger cam sprocket was free-floating while aligned, crank was aligned, and driver side cam sprocket was not free-floating, it was caught 'midstroke'. Had me concerned at first but 30 miles later it is fine. 1-27, 6 hours total in reassembly and diagnosis for stupidity. Remember the 6 P's: Prior-planning-prevents-piss-poor-performance. My failures: hooked all connectors up before I routed the valve cover hoses to air box, forgot to put plug wires in before installed engine, hooked up fuel lines backwards and chased a non-starting issue for 1 hour, accidentally installed starter ground on starter hot-wire and damn near had a heart attack. Other than that everything went great. Definitely do your top end first before your bottom end and you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonamedude Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Nice glad to hear it's up and running! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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