Performance upgrade priorities

[Rodger]

In order which performance upgrades do you think should be installed out of the following.

1. Cobb Access Tuner

2. Cobb short ram intake

3. Turbo inlet pipe

4. Turbo up pipe

5. Turbo down pipe

6. Exhaust

7. Blow off valve

8. Upgrades intercooler (top or front mount)

 

Everyone tell me what you think and which upgrades should go in what order. Also add anything I may have forgotten.

 

 

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[LegacyOBS]

Legacy is no longer with Turbo, so none of these items will be much an "upgrade". But assuming you are going for a hood scoope Subaru (well again, the only one has it now is WRX/STI). My other 2013 Forester XT was upgraded in this order.

 

about 10k,

Cobb Access Tuner, Turbo inlet pipe, Turbo up pipe, Turbo down pipe, Exhaust (it was a set upgrade from the shop where they offered the cobb tuner as a discounted item).

 

6 months later was the intercooler and intake.

[Max Capacity]

Cobb AP

if its an 05-06, replace the up pipe with a catless one and a 3" down pipe.

keep the stock intake, it's hard to best till your well above 350whp.

Grimmspeed tmic.

 

that's all.

[Infosecdad]

What are you “upgrading”?

What are your goals?

 

Your list has a mix of useful and not so useful things.

Just curious what you are aiming for.

[stewdogg]

+1^^

 

When asking for advice you should give people as much info about your situation as you can, so they can help you better.

What car, year, mileage, stock or not, what you want from the car, what type of driving are you tuning for (track?)...

[Rodger]

Legacy is no longer with Turbo, so none of these items will be much an "upgrade". But assuming you are going for a hood scoope Subaru (well again, the only one has it now is WRX/STI). My other 2013 Forester XT was upgraded in this order.

 

about 10k,

Cobb Access Tuner, Turbo inlet pipe, Turbo up pipe, Turbo down pipe, Exhaust (it was a set upgrade from the shop where they offered the cobb tuner as a discounted item).

 

6 months later was the intercooler and intake.

 

 

 

I forgot to specify 50-07 Legacy GT Limited

 

 

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[Rodger]

+1^^

 

When asking for advice you should give people as much info about your situation as you can, so they can help you better.

What car, year, mileage, stock or not, what you want from the car, what type of driving are you tuning for (track?)...

 

 

 

05-07 Legacy GT Limited bought stock with 133k very well maintained and still looking great. Looking to tune for street driving but wanting to add power. The items listed in the original post were the most common performance mods I’ve seen utilized with my car. I hope that helps. Thanks

 

 

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[Rodger]

What are you “upgrading”?

What are your goals?

 

Your list has a mix of useful and not so useful things.

Just curious what you are aiming for.

 

 

 

05-07 Legacy GT Limited bought stock with 133k very well maintained and still looking great. Looking to tune for street driving but wanting to add power. The items listed in the original post were the most common performance mods I’ve seen utilized with my car. In your opinion which are helpful and which are not helpful, as you put it.

 

 

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[Infosecdad]

05-07 Legacy GT Limited bought stock with 133k very well maintained and still looking great. Looking to tune for street driving but wanting to add power. The items listed in the original post were the most common performance mods I’ve seen utilized with my car. In your opinion which are helpful and which are not helpful, as you put it.

 

1. Cobb Access Tuner

- One of a couple ways you can apply a tune and perform some logging. The other is with BtSSM (logging) or RomRaider (logging) and ECUFlash (update) with a couple of the tuners on the forum that will perform e-tunes.

 

2. Cobb short ram intake

- Not really needed until you break 300-350hp. Can be a pain to tune for, general consensus I've seen is that it generally isn't worth the money for performance, but if you like the turbo whooshing sound, it works.

 

3. Turbo inlet pipe

- If your stock one is dead, this is an option, but so is OEM. I haven't seen any solid data that any of the silicon or other aftermarket inlets improve performance in a noticeable way until you get to higher HP numbers that come with bigger turbos or E85.

 

4. Turbo up pipe

- You probably have a cat in your up-pipe given the year range you indicated. You should definitely replace your up-pipe for safety/longevity reasons, won't really improve performance that much.

 

5. Turbo down pipe

- This is one of the best performance per dollar I think you can spend up front. Catted or not, it eliminates one of the main restrictions downstream from the turbo.

 

6. Exhaust

- At some point a catback will improve performance, but not a lot until you upgrade the turbo (in my research and opinion). I noticed a small difference when going to 3" / 2.25" and different mufflers, but I have an upgraded VF-52 and custom tune.

 

7. Blow off valve

- Unless your stock one is leaking, this doesn't really help too much. It'll make nice whooshing sounds, and technically can help hold boost at higher levels, but I don't really consider it "performance", it's more rounding out the upgrades.

 

8. Upgrades intercooler (top or front mount)

- If you are going to get a tune that pushes you into 18psi or higher, you should consider an aftermarket TMIC/FMIC or reinforcing your OEM one. There is some data on the forum from utc_pyro and others that show the OEM TMIC is really good.

 

These are my opinions from research and experience, some with agree and others disagree with them. Recommend a compression and leak down test before modding, just to have a good idea of the health of your engine. Also should remove the banjo bolt filters in the oiling system for the turbo. If those clog, they will starve your turbo for oil and you'll be really unhappy.

 

Larger performance upgrades come in the form of a VF-52 or other larger turbo, upgraded fuel pump, and upgraded injectors. I've replaced a number of parts you listed (like TMIC, inlet, BOV/BPV) with aftermarket; but it was more for longevity/reliability than performance, my LGT wagon is over 180k and the stock versions were tired.

[Brady]

WTF is it with these bizarre and cagey posts? '05-'07? It took the factory three years to build the damn thing? So you can't be specific about the year, but are you sure you're not giving away too much by telling us 133K miles?

[Rodger]

WTF is it with these bizarre and cagey posts? '05-'07? It took the factory three years to build the damn thing? So you can't be specific about the year, but are you sure you're not giving away too much by telling us 133K miles?

 

 

 

Well Brady let’s see. Maybe since I just bought me first Subaru last week and was told the 4th gen legacy’s ranged from 2005-2007 would be why I mention 05-07. If this is incorrect then I received incorrect information. As for giving away the specifics, given that the car is a stock 2005 Legacy GT Limited with 133K, I’m not sure what other specifics you would need. I listed many common aftermarket parts considered “performance/ upgrades” that may be used on this model and year. So given your “smart” response I deduce your a well educated Subaru performance individual therefore I assume you could reply to the post in a helpful way which unfortunately you did not. Normally whenever I have joined a forum/group/club or what have you for a specific car people are very helpful to the “newbies” but so far I’m very disappointed with the courtesy and helpfulness of the Subaru community and this forum specifically. Idk maybe it’s all the millennials and special snow flakes now days. However, for the 2 people who responded with useful comments thanks.

 

 

 

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[Rodger]

1. Cobb Access Tuner

 

- One of a couple ways you can apply a tune and perform some logging. The other is with BtSSM (logging) or RomRaider (logging) and ECUFlash (update) with a couple of the tuners on the forum that will perform e-tunes.

 

 

 

2. Cobb short ram intake

 

- Not really needed until you break 300-350hp. Can be a pain to tune for, general consensus I've seen is that it generally isn't worth the money for performance, but if you like the turbo whooshing sound, it works.

 

 

 

3. Turbo inlet pipe

 

- If your stock one is dead, this is an option, but so is OEM. I haven't seen any solid data that any of the silicon or other aftermarket inlets improve performance in a noticeable way until you get to higher HP numbers that come with bigger turbos or E85.

 

 

 

4. Turbo up pipe

 

- You probably have a cat in your up-pipe given the year range you indicated. You should definitely replace your up-pipe for safety/longevity reasons, won't really improve performance that much.

 

 

 

5. Turbo down pipe

 

- This is one of the best performance per dollar I think you can spend up front. Catted or not, it eliminates one of the main restrictions downstream from the turbo.

 

 

 

6. Exhaust

 

- At some point a catback will improve performance, but not a lot until you upgrade the turbo (in my research and opinion). I noticed a small difference when going to 3" / 2.25" and different mufflers, but I have an upgraded VF-52 and custom tune.

 

 

 

7. Blow off valve

 

- Unless your stock one is leaking, this doesn't really help too much. It'll make nice whooshing sounds, and technically can help hold boost at higher levels, but I don't really consider it "performance", it's more rounding out the upgrades.

 

 

 

8. Upgrades intercooler (top or front mount)

 

- If you are going to get a tune that pushes you into 18psi or higher, you should consider an aftermarket TMIC/FMIC or reinforcing your OEM one. There is some data on the forum from utc_pyro and others that show the OEM TMIC is really good.

 

 

 

These are my opinions from research and experience, some with agree and others disagree with them. Recommend a compression and leak down test before modding, just to have a good idea of the health of your engine. Also should remove the banjo bolt filters in the oiling system for the turbo. If those clog, they will starve your turbo for oil and you'll be really unhappy.

 

 

 

Larger performance upgrades come in the form of a VF-52 or other larger turbo, upgraded fuel pump, and upgraded injectors. I've replaced a number of parts you listed (like TMIC, inlet, BOV/BPV) with aftermarket; but it was more for longevity/reliability than performance, my LGT wagon is over 180k and the stock versions were tired.

 

 

 

Outstanding response! Thank you! Unlike many off your Subaru peers you’ve given a great amount of information to which from what I’ve read, I agree with. I didn’t realize it would be so hard to find good advice or information for Subaru’s. Thanks

 

 

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[dgoodhue]

Before you spend all your money on mods, make sure you have enough money available for the inevitable new turbo and engine replacement.

[FLlegacy]

^^^First thing I would do is have the shop you are getting tuned at, hopefully you have a shop close by, do a thorough inspection of the engine. Compression, leakdown, plugs and boots, probably fuel filter or fuel pump at that mileage. Then I would talk with a tuner and let them know what you want and base your purchases off the recommendations given to you there. You would probably be in their good graces for all of eternity for talking to them first and then actually listening/doing to what they tell you. Since most people find a random list of upgrades throw them on a car and then take it for tune without considering what works well together/provides consistent performance.

[Brady]

Well Brady let’s see. Maybe since I just bought me first Subaru last week and was told the 4th gen legacy’s ranged from 2005-2007 would be why I mention 05-07. If this is incorrect then I received incorrect information. As for giving away the specifics, given that the car is a stock 2005 Legacy GT Limited with 133K, I’m not sure what other specifics you would need. I listed many common aftermarket parts considered “performance/ upgrades” that may be used on this model and year. So given your “smart” response I deduce your a well educated Subaru performance individual therefore I assume you could reply to the post in a helpful way which unfortunately you did not. Normally whenever I have joined a forum/group/club or what have you for a specific car people are very helpful to the “newbies” but so far I’m very disappointed with the courtesy and helpfulness of the Subaru community and this forum specifically. Idk maybe it’s all the millennials and special snow flakes now days. However, for the 2 people who responded with useful comments thanks.

 

 

 

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And regardless of Make and Model, there are almost ALWAYS subtle differences from year to year. The "4th Gen" ran from '05 - '09. The '05-07 were effectively one body style, but an astute observer can tell each of them apart. And there are some minor mechanical differences and substantial trim options available between all those years. Why wouldn't you just just state the actual Year and trim?

 

There, that's my helpful post so you'll know for always in the future.

[RustyRuu]

#1 remove banjo bolt filters.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2-5gt-turbo-oil-supply-banjo-bolt-filter-removal-62371.html

[Mr-C]

My first recommendation as others have stated is to have a full inspection done on the car (if not done prior to the purchase)...importance focused on leak down and/or compression test and if you can, have the turbo inspected and the oil lines (banjo bolt especially).

 

If everything is mechanically sound then upgrades can be considered.

 

Considering the millage on the car, replacing the timing belt and components, spark plugs, gas pump/filter and having your injectors cleaned would be a good starting point. If its the original turbo, having it rebuilt (or find a rebuilt VF52) can also be worth considering to avoid issues once you start bolting on some after-market parts.

 

The best "bang for your buck" will be catless up-pipe & downpipe , VF52 turbo (if you can afford it) + a tune....if you get the COBB AP there are Off The Shelve (OTS) maps to support these mods and therefore you can avoid paying a custom tune (*COBB does not have a OTS map for a VF52 upgrade, therefore a custom tune will be required).....just keep in mind the COBB maps are still somewhat "conservative" , they please the vast majority but do leave some HP/TQ on the table

 

Don't forget to consider upgrading your brakes (aftermarket pads and rotors or Brembo upgrade) and suspension to support the higher HP.

 

You'll quickly notice the $$$ involved in achieving your goals and depending on your budget it will take time to get there (like most of us here). So take it 1 thing at a time, make sure everything is mechanically sound before all. You'll enjoy and appreciate the experience (and especially your car) much more than jumping in head first and finding yourself needing a new engine, etc....

 

Good luck with your build and don't be shy to ask questions.....we're not all sarcastic pricks who can't keep comments to ourselves.

[Rodger]

Before you spend all your money on mods, make sure you have enough money available for the inevitable new turbo and engine replacement.

 

 

 

 

Noted. I did know that information but guess I just didn’t think there was enough difference in the 4th gen’s that would make a difference in the listed parts as those bolts on are available for any year really although the part itself may be different the function it provides is generally the same. But more specifically my point to your comment would be that if it’s not helpful don’t write it. Think of the old saying, “If you don’t something kind to say, you should say nothing at all.”

 

 

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