Target boost, I can't get to you!!

[solidxsnake]

huh. So when you say 'primary boost table', that is not the same as the boost target parameter then correct?

 

note: I have on my old pc the latest rom and the openecuflash (whatever name it is called) to view the current tables and stuff. I've never really spent the time to look at it. I think I will do this now as I have a bit of time..

 

The table is the table in the ROM that determines the boost target before compensations are applied. It's a 3D table with a requested torque (the internal value the ECU uses that's based off of the DBW map and the accelerator position) and engine speed as the base axes. The target boost parameter shows the final target boost based off the current conditions the car is in (accelerator position, engine speed, intake temp, coolant temp, atmospheric pressure, etc.).

 

Valuable reading: http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic1814.html

[xt2005bonbon]

Thanks. I'll take a look.

[xt2005bonbon]

Nice read. Before I keep asking questions , why do I see the target boost/Initial Wastegate Duty tables ranging from A through D? And yet, there are only two 'Max Wastegate Duty'/'Wastegate Compensation' tables (A/B).

[solidxsnake]

Nice read. Before I keep asking questions , why do I see the target boost/Initial Wastegate Duty tables ranging from A through D? And yet, there are only two 'Max Wastegate Duty'/'Wastegate Compensation' tables (A/B).

 

My ROM doesn't have those tables (or at least, if it does, they're not defined). Normally the A-D tables are under various conditions that I'm not certain are consistent. For example, on some parameters the A/B tables correspond to when the TGVs are in one state, whereas the C/D tables are for when the TGVs are in another state. Generally the A-D labeling is because the exact purpose of the table isn't known yet, but it's clear that the table is what its defined.

 

Typically the tables are identical between different types, in which case I just make sure to update all of the identical ones the same way. Without more thorough reverse-engineering, though, it's hard to say what the difference is between them.

[xt2005bonbon]

Thanks again for your feedback.

 

Here is a screenshot of the various tables. This is what I am noticing:

 

--Target Boost A/B tables are the same. C/D are the same, but different than A/B. So I am providing here only A and C.

--I am noticing that the boost unit is in 'absolute bar'. On table C, I see a peak of 2.25 bar which should be equivalent to 32.6 psi . Am I reading this right? I must be missing something...

 

--The Initial WG Duty A/B tables are also the same (same applies to C/D). So again, I am only showing A and C.

--The "Max WG Duty A and B are definitely different. And I am recognizing the ~64% values shown in table A around 3200 rpm and 35%+ throttle. I saw that peak number yesterday while pushing the car close to wot.

 

 

So before I attempt modifying the WS compensation table and stuff, am I reading these target boost values right?

[Wasted Potential]

I have no true idea, but by definition I take absolute bar as plus 1 atmosphere, so 1.25 bar about 18.1x psi.

[rhino6303]

Thanks again for your feedback.

 

Here is a screenshot of the various tables. This is what I am noticing:

 

--Target Boost A/B tables are the same. C/D are the same, but different than A/B. So I am providing here only A and C.

--I am noticing that the boost unit is in 'absolute bar'. On table C, I see a peak of 2.25 bar which should be equivalent to 32.6 psi . Am I reading this right? I must be missing something...

 

--The Initial WG Duty A/B tables are also the same (same applies to C/D). So again, I am only showing A and C.

--The "Max WG Duty A and B are definitely different. And I am recognizing the ~64% values shown in table A around 3200 rpm and 35%+ throttle. I saw that peak number yesterday while pushing the car close to wot.

 

 

So before I attempt modifying the WS compensation table and stuff, am I reading these target boost values right?

Are you using the metric definitions for romraider?

 

Your boost target tables are in absolute pressure and you would need to subtract 14.7 psi or 1 bar for them to be in relative pressure. Your ecu inherently uses absolute bar in the calculations but the standard definitions in romraider change this for us to look at it in a better way. Since it appears you're using the metric definition, it keeps them in absolute.

 

On to the wastegate tables...the max wastegate duty cycle is usually created by adding a constant to the initial wastegate duty cycle. In your case it appears to be 7. The max table is just that, the highest allowable wastegate duty cycle.

 

Your compensations seem a little off to me though. What is your ecu id for the car? I'd like to open a stock rom and compare. Thanks.

[ehsnils]

The wastegate compensation relative to the intake temperature looks "funny" in my eyes.

 

The high throttle position columns and engine speed rows also have "funny" values, but it could be a bug in the program reading those tables.

 

Do you have any stock values to compare with - or values from another car? Just try to get a feel for if it's the program reading the data that's presenting some strange data or if it's the tables themselves that are strange.

[xt2005bonbon]

I cannot find my stock tune . But I found an old version of my stage 1 tune. The only mod at that time was the k&n panel filter and I recall my peak boost was around 16.9-17.1 psi and I was reaching it no problem.

 

I had a look, for that stage 1 tune, at the same tables I provided in the previous screenshot and the only ones that are different are the Target Boost C, Initial WG DC C, and Max WG DC B (the three tables on the right column of the previous screenshot). Everything else is exactly the same including all WG compensation tables.

 

And thank you all for clarifying on how to correctly convert the target boost value. That makes sense now.

 

Edit: I should also add that the Initial WG DC C table from the stage 1 tune had higher values almost everywhere. The Max WG DC table had only a few different values (mostly first two columns at low Throttle Pos); peak value is around 88.4% compared to 74.9%.

[xt2005bonbon]

Forgot to add.. EcuFlash reports 'Internal ID: A2WC510S'. But I also see 'Inherits: A2WC522N'.

 

Also, just checked my latest rom from the stage 2+ 06. Appears nice and smooth when you look at the values in a 2D table. Also, the RPM and TP ranges shown on the x/y axes of the tables start at 2250 rpm and 10%, respectively. While for the 05, it starts at like 3200 rpm and 25 %, respectively. And I don't see some nonsense rpm/throttle position values for the 06.

 

I have a feeling the tune for this car may need to start over again from scratch.

[solidxsnake]

Shouldn't have any problem finding your stock tune on the RomRaider forums. BtSsm will tell you your CALID. If it's A2WC510S, that's the one you want (ignore the "inherits" field in ECUFlash).

 

Sounds like the tune has some messed-up tables if the axis values are different.

[xt2005bonbon]

I confirm that BtSsm reports A2WC510S as the CALID. I will then look for the stock tune for it.

[solidxsnake]

I confirm that BtSsm reports A2WC510S as the CALID. I will then look for the stock tune for it.

 

http://www.romraider.com/forum/download/file.php?id=2788

 

That's it, search for your CAL ID on this thread: http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=7591

[xt2005bonbon]

Thanks a lot man. I wish I could view these on my chromebook...

 

Btw, as I was googling for my calid, I stumbled upon a site selling stock Subaru tune for 199$!! What the heck.

[Wasted Potential]

Maybe they come to your house, install it, and massage your back for the 5 minutes that it takes to flash?

[xt2005bonbon]

[xt2005bonbon]

alright. Just had a careful look at the same tables from the stock rom and this is what I found out:

 

1. All Target boost tables (A through D) are the same

2. The same applies to the Initial WG DC tables, Max WG DC tables and WG Compensation 2D tables

3. All tables shown on the left hand side of the screenshot I provided earlier match exactly the stock tables. That is what i expected actually because I noticed yesterday that the Target Boost A table had a ~13.5 psi peak boost which is stock level.

4. As a result, all stock tables also include these weird values on the x/y axes.

 

I am posting back the screenshot here for convenience. So essentially, comparing the left vs. right is like comparing stock vs what I have now!

 

I should also add that the 'Turbo Dynamics (Integral positive)' table provided at the bottom right of the screenshot is unchanged from stock.

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259967&d=1514475778

[xt2005bonbon]

I am so tempted to modify the first two cells of the Max WG DC (3200 rpm row and low TP) and add like 2% or something. So far, I've only seen about 64 and sometime 67% peak value on btssm which matches these values.

[solidxsnake]

I am so tempted to modify the first two cells of the Max WG DC (3200 rpm row and low TP) and add like 2% or something. So far, I've only seen about 64 and sometime 67% peak value on btssm which matches these values.

 

It shouldn't be a problem to do so. I'd give it a shot and see what happens! Just keep an eye on it and you should be fine.

[xt2005bonbon]

yeah. I'll probably try that.

 

Let me ask this question though: as I previously said, I kept seeing a WG DC staying steady around 64-67% while I was pushing the car (i.e. I'd say throttle position around 80% and rpm climbing from 3k to 5k). Now if you look at the max WG DC table, there is no 64+% values in the 80% TP column. So how come I am seeing a 64% value while I am in that range of TP? Is it because the ECU first applied that amount (top left corner of the 2D max WG DC table) and then when it got into the 80% TP column, it still noticed that target boost was not reached, therefore still applied that same amount of max WG DC? Am I making any sense?

 

In any case, I need to log this stuff.

[solidxsnake]

yeah. I'll probably try that.

 

Let me ask this question though: as I previously said, I kept seeing a WG DC staying steady around 64-67% while I was pushing the car (i.e. I'd say throttle position around 80% and rpm climbing from 3k to 5k). Now if you look at the max WG DC table, there is no 64+% values in the 80% TP column. So how come I am seeing a 64% value while I am in that range of TP? Is it because the ECU first applied that amount (top left corner of the 2D max WG DC table) and then when it got into the 80% TP column, it still noticed that target boost was not reached, therefore still applied that same amount of max WG DC? Am I making any sense?

 

In any case, I need to log this stuff.

 

Did you log throttle position? Accelerator position and throttle position are generally quite different. That said, I believe there are still compensations applied to WGDC, the initial/max table are pre-compensation.

 

Also, those weird values are because the definition of the table is screwed up. There should only be 9 rows and 5 columns from the looks of it. Nothing's wrong with the ROM. You can tell that the "screwed up" values are the start of another table (i.e. 800, 2400, 2800 are RPM values, etc.).

[ehsnils]

Also, those weird values are because the definition of the table is screwed up. There should only be 9 rows and 5 columns from the looks of it. Nothing's wrong with the ROM. You can tell that the "screwed up" values are the start of another table (i.e. 800, 2400, 2800 are RPM values, etc.).

 

That makes sense to me. But it looks a bit "funny" that there's nothing in the range between 80 and 100%. Maybe that will also reveal itself if the correct table definition is used.

[rhino6303]

There's something up with your versiom of romraider and/or the definitions. I just dowloaded a2wc510s and the wastegate tables look nothimg like yours. I verified with ecuflash as well.

 

All of the stock a2wc510s tables for boost target and duty cycle have rpm up to 6800 and throttle plate opening up to 95.2.

 

What version of romraider are you using? 0.5.9 RC3 is the latest.

 

Open your map using ecuflash and check the tables there as well.

[xt2005bonbon]

There's something up with your versiom of romraider and/or the definitions. I just dowloaded a2wc510s and the wastegate tables look nothimg like yours. I verified with ecuflash as well.

 

All of the stock a2wc510s tables for boost target and duty cycle have rpm up to 6800 and throttle plate opening up to 95.2.

 

What version of romraider are you using? 0.5.9 RC3 is the latest.

 

Open your map using ecuflash and check the tables there as well.

 

Really? I used ecuflash to view the various tables I've been sharing here. Have not used romraider (have not used that program for a long time now). Let me check the ecuflash version I am using... It is on a different computer.

[xt2005bonbon]

I have version 1.29.906. Got this back in 2013.. Let me download the latest version and see what happens.