Need to replace all of my break parts front/rear. Suggestions?

[Waxiboy]

Waxiboy: Ok. What the actual **** is that? It is marketed as a big brake kit but uses the OEM calipers? The OEMs are 2 pot calipers.

 

Can you point out where the rear 2nd piston is? :lol:

 

They are definitely NOT big brakes. That kit is just an extended bracket for putting larger rotors on.

It doesn't look better. The only painted part is the bracket, leaving you to paint the rest of it yourself if you want. Arguably the only reason to have big brakes on the rear is mostly for appearance anyway and that fails even at that.

It isn't going to help you stop better. It is using the same calipers and spreading your pressure out on a greater surface. The only thing it would help with mechanically is reducing heat.

 

Yeah, I give you that marketing gimmick of sorts. But aside from heat dissipation, moving the caliper outwards gives it higher leverage, hence better stopping. But what do I know about brakes, I just put on what's cool

 

What I am looking for out of brakes:

1. Obviously stopping power. Currently my brakes are pretty squishy and I'm looking to resolve that.

2. Low brake dust. This has been a fairly consistent problem for me.

3. Looks. I want to go with something painted and powder coated. Yeah, I know it doesn't make it go faster but I am willing to pay a small premium for aesthetics.

4. Not looking to brake the bank (pun intended). I don't really need cross drilled and slotted rotors. I'm not stopping hard enough often enough for my brakes to get hot thus establishing a need for such features. If it doesn't cost a lot more I'm not going to turn it down though either.

 

1. Rebuilt calipers, new rotors, new pads, fresh brake fluid, maybe SS lines and most important of all, tires.

2. The lowest dust pads I have used are Endless SSM ages ago...virtually zero dust but leaves a lot to be desired in initial bite.

3. Buy caliper paint and DIY.

4. Go back to #1 & #3

 

Your options will open up when you change wheels, until then there's not much you can do.

[jrho]

1. Rebuilt calipers, new rotors, new pads, fresh brake fluid, maybe SS lines and most important of all, tires.

2. The lowest dust pads I have used are Endless SSM ages ago...virtually zero dust but leaves a lot to be desired in initial bite.

3. Buy caliper paint and DIY.

4. Go back to #1 & #3

 

I mean there's been multiple suggestions of going this route (myself included) but OP seems pretty dead set on upgrading...

[JF1GG29]

STi Brembos are the answer. You know you want them, we know you want them, everyone knows you want them.

[Holla]

I’m going to again put my support out there for the sti mc/booster swap. Especially if you need to bleed the brakes anyway changing calipers, it’s a no brainer. For $75 its the best bang for buck mod on a lgt.

[Lune]

Wasted Potential: My logic is sound. The only thing having bigger rotors does is help dissipate heat more. Number of pots doesn't change the amount of force being applied either as that is still limited by your master cylinder, brake lines, etc. You are just dividing that force amongst multiple pistons. Unless those are also being replaced (I intend to do so eventually) it is the same amount of force.

 

The ideas I have "pooped" on have been when people have suggested things I have said outright that I specifically do not want to do. It isn't helpful when people do that and I do not regret it. I have thanked everyone who has been helpful.

 

JF1GG29: Could you provide a link to the STI Brembos that you are referring to for reference? The 4 pots I linked in my original post I thought are from a WRX. I don't know how heavy they are but they look like the lightest 4 pots I have seen yet. WAY lighter than the CTS-V conversion for sure. CTS-V (not sure if that is what you meant with the "ATS-V"?) will not fit with the wheels I have so that is not an option for me. I am willing to entertain most of your ideas but I will be replacing my calipers front/back.

 

jrho: Oh, you noticed that I was looking to upgrade. I wonder if that is because I outright said it multiple times in my original post.

 

1. Rebuilt calipers, new rotors, new pads, fresh brake fluid, maybe SS lines and most important of all, tires.

2. The lowest dust pads I have used are Endless SSM ages ago...virtually zero dust but leaves a lot to be desired in initial bite.

3. Buy caliper paint and DIY.

4. Go back to #1 & #3

 

Your options will open up when you change wheels, until then there's not much you can do.

1. I'm not sure how I can make myself more clear here. I have absolutely no intention of staying with the OEM calipers. The rest of these suggestion are good but lacking specific which I could actually find helpful. Which combination of caliper, rotor, pads, fluid and SS lines would you recommend? I also eventually plan on getting the sti master cylinder/brake booster mod so I can get the performance out of the 4 pots that I want.

2. For pads I'm thinking of going with Posi Quiet or Hawk 5.0. Opinions?

3. There is an issue of polishing a turd. Putting really nice paint on 2 pot calipers that have failed for me repeatedly that I do not want isn't a good solution for me.

4. I am looking for suggestions close to the options I was considering and posted about in the initial thread.

 

Also, I already stated I have 2 sets of tires for the wheels that I have. I am not looking to swap out the wheels. Besides, I'm pretty happy with the design and size of the OEM wheels. Although I do not like the finish and am likely going to have them painted. That isn't really relevant to this discussion other than to say that replacing my wheels is not something that I am considering.

[Lune]

Holla: You are probably right. I should just do it while the rest of it is being done.

[Waxiboy]

1. I'm not sure how I can make myself more clear here. I have absolutely no intention of staying with the OEM calipers. The rest of these suggestion are good but lacking specific which I could actually find helpful. Which combination of caliper, rotor, pads, fluid and SS lines would you recommend? I also eventually plan on getting the sti master cylinder/brake booster mod so I can get the performance out of the 4 pots that I want.

2. For pads I'm thinking of going with Posi Quiet or Hawk 5.0. Opinions?

3. There is an issue of polishing a turd. Putting really nice paint on 2 pot calipers that have failed for me repeatedly that I do not want isn't a good solution for me.

4. I am looking for suggestions close to the options I was considering and posted about in the initial thread.

 

 

1. This: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/rotora-bbk-pics-29079.html From what I read in the past these are not sealed pistons. DBA or Centric Premium rotors, Project Mu NS 400 pads, ATE or Motul fluid, Technafit SS lines.

 

2. I have Hawk low dust pads in my wife's CX9, horrible grab.

 

3. Understand.

 

4. The WRX 4 /2 pots uses smaller pads (and rotors???) compared to the stockers. Definitely not an upgrade from OEM. These are also originally made by Aisin/Sumitomo for Nissan and Subaru just picked off the shelf (heck our R160 & R180 diffs are originally Nissan units).

[Holla]

Wasted Potential: My logic is sound.

 

 

1. I'm not sure how I can make myself more clear here. I have absolutely no intention of staying with the OEM calipers.

 

Also, I already stated I have 2 sets of tires for the wheels that I have. I am not looking to swap out the wheels. Besides, I'm pretty happy with the design and size of the OEM wheels. Although I do not like the finish and am likely going to have them painted. That isn't really relevant to this discussion other than to say that replacing my wheels is not something that I am considering.

 

 

This is extremely relevent to this discussion. The first thing you’re going to need with bigger calipers is rims that will fit over them. Half the cost of a caliper upgrade is the rims. Your logic is not sound.

 

If you’re so dead set on staying with the stock lgt rims, you’re only real option is the stock lgt calipers.

 

The STi Brembo swap is by far the most common caliper swap for these cars. There’s ton of info out there about it. They bolt to the stock spindles, they’re Aluminum so even though they’re 4 pots the weight is about the same as the stock lgt calipers, but you need rims that will clear them!!!

[Wasted Potential]

Wasted Potential: My logic is sound. The only thing having bigger rotors does is help dissipate heat more. Number of pots doesn't change the amount of force being applied either as that is still limited by your master cylinder, brake lines, etc. You are just dividing that force amongst multiple pistons. Unless those are also being replaced (I intend to do so eventually) it is the same amount of force.

 

You said, "same calipers and spreading your pressure out on a greater surface..." That's not sound, that's flat out wrong... pressure is force divided by area. You're trying to state that it's the same pressure on MORE area. It's the force you need to pay attention to. It is staying the same. You CANNOT have the same pressure on more area unless you decrease the force. Are you putting smaller calipers on it?

If you slap bigger rotors on it, and push harder on the brake pedal with the SAME factory caliper, you WILL stop faster.

You may have the right idea but your word choice to explain it is of someone that does not know the definition of the word.

But hey, what does an engineer know.

 

If you know so much it should be easy for you to figure out such a simple question that has been answered hundreds of times before in this forum.

[Lune]

I'll let you all argue the semantics of my word choice. Getting bigger rotors whilst using the same calipers (that I dislike and have said from my first post that I am not keeping) will not make the car stop better. It is not an upgrade to do so outside of heat reduction which I am not concerned about. Moreover, I have stated repeatedly that I am replacing my calipers. Trying to convince me to not isn't helpful.

[Lune]

I have made my decision now anyway. I spoke with Firestone and they want $1700 for their lifetime brakes. That swaps out OEM and goes with similar 2 pot front and 1 pot rear. It isn't a mechanical upgrade in anyway other than the lifetime warranty. I don't like their brakes any more than the OEM and they honestly look as crappy as well.

 

I will be getting the brakes I linked in my original post. I haven't found another BBK that fits my desires at a better price. $1800 plus $400 in labor for installation (been talking with my local shop and thats the price they gave and are onboard with doing this work) seems like a much better option than the Firestone lifetime option. These ones look great and will fit under my stock rims. Until I actually pull the trigger and make the purchase I'll try to remain open minded to other options. But so far these look like the best option for what I'm looking for.

[Wasted Potential]

I'll let you all argue the semantics of my word choice. Getting bigger rotors whilst using the same calipers (that I dislike and have said from my first post that I am not keeping) will not make the car stop better. It is not an upgrade to do so outside of heat reduction which I am not concerned about. Moreover, I have stated repeatedly that I am replacing my calipers. Trying to convince me to not isn't helpful.

 

I'll stay with my first post, Raybestos calipers and pads, have who ever is installing them powder coat or ship them off. Please do not feel like I would say get a bigger rotor and stay with stock calipers. I understand name brand worth of BBK though, just make sure your new rim will fit. I agree on not going with firestone, that sounds like a stretch for cost...

As others mentioned, look into the STi master cylinder and booster swap as that will enhance pedal feel up top.

[Lune]

Wasted Potential: Opinions on the brakes I linked above?

[Wasted Potential]

I wouldn't get them as they look like wrx upgrade which is marginal from what reviews i read elsewhere. Especially for that cost, to go with smaller, heavier, although more pot calipers.

If you're trying to buy a completely pre-finished buy and install kit your options are limited. I like StopTech big brake kits but those are over 2.2k just for the fronts.

 

I would take the time to piece together STi front calipers, STi master cylinder/booster, stainless steel lines, good pads, any choice above OE for the rear caliper, same pads as front, and more stainless steel lines. Probably can be all bought for $1k, cheaper if you pick and choose with time to haggle. Have them delivered to a paint shop for $250-$300 on a nice powder coating. And have them installed at whatever shop (you mentioned $400). That's right around $1700. It takes more time to piece it together and source it but I think it's worth it.

 

I do not autoX my car, but planned on it next year. Most likely won't happen with the job but owell... Hopefully the autoX bunch can chime in and suggest things as they tend to have more ingenious and budget oriented setups.

 

Edit: looks like fronts are 2.6k and rear are 2.2k for StopTech kits. Ouch!

 

Do you plan on AutoX or anything? I know you're set on upgrading brakes as it is probably a NEED, but don't go overboard on cost. Have you had any suspension, tune, motor modifications? Little money can go a long way on a tune!

[Wasted Potential]

Actually, where is MTBWrench... he is good at playing devils advocate.

 

My other pessimistic suggestion: what percentage of improvement in all categories are you obtaining with X money spent? For this reason, just buy all new Raybestos pads, and calipers, slap any ole rotor on there, and drive it into the ground for ~1k. Paint them with a spray can every year and send it down the road!

[Waxiboy]

This is what I would do for ~$2K+

 

17" STi V7 wheels = $500

eBay STi Brembo set = $1000

Rear caliper bracket = $200

Rear parking brake shoe = $200

Centric Rotors = $400 or buy used OEM from Nasioc

Pads = $150 or buy used OEM from Nasioc

[jrho]

jrho: Oh, you noticed that I was looking to upgrade. I wonder if that is because I outright said it multiple times in my original post.

 

You realize using OEM calipers has been brought up multiple times despite you stating you want to upgrade because it is unnecessary for the things that you're looking for out of a braking set up? I mean I get it at the end of the day it's ultimately your decision and your car so do what you want but if you're not tracking your car in any way, shape or form, you're just spending a lot of money for mainly looks

[JF1GG29]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/brembo-conversion-2005-legacy-gt-ltd-152487.html?t=152487

 

STi Brembo swap for a Legacy.

 

 

Don't get the Subaru 4/2 pot fixed calipers. They aren't really an upgrade aside from a bit of bling and better pedal feel. They are smaller than the LGT setup! I put those calipers on my WRX so that I could keep running 15" and 16" wheels for rallyx. Yes, you read that right, these brakes are so small they can fit under some 15" wheels. And did I mention that they are f-cking HEAVY?

[BajaTim]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/brembo-conversion-2005-legacy-gt-ltd-152487.html?t=152487

 

STi Brembo swap for a Legacy.

 

 

Don't get the Subaru 4/2 pot fixed calipers. They aren't really an upgrade aside from a bit of bling and better pedal feel. They are smaller than the LGT setup! I put those calipers on my WRX so that I could keep running 15" and 16" wheels for rallyx. Yes, you read that right, these brakes are so small they can fit under some 15" wheels. And did I mention that they are f-cking HEAVY?

 

 

 

#15inchwheels #

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lune]

Wasted Potential: No real plans of autox, no. Just like to appreciate a car that handles and looks good.

 

It is good that I have everyone's permission to get the kind of brakes that I want. Thank you for your blessing. It is my primary reason for coming to these boards. /sarcasm

 

The stock calipers are crap. I have had problems with them personally 3x in the 4 years I have owned this car. I'm sick of it. At this point I would be happy to replace them with pretty much anything else just so I can have a problem with something new.

 

I will be getting the 4/2 pot calipers that I linked above. I have no doubt that I will like them more than the current calipers and not only because of their current seizing issue. I am willing to bet all the money I am spending on them that they will hit every one of my bullet points.

 

From reports I have seen they have improved the squishyness issue for others. While more calipers do not generally influence brake dust issues having more pots will more evenly distribute force and may help with that. Either way the new pads will help with that issue. They definitely look way better than the stock calipers. No, painting the stock calipers would not help that issue. That would really just accentuate the current lack of aesthetics. And unless I miss my mark these are the least expensive brake sets that are a sure fit and hit all of my bullet points for the money.

 

Even the Brembo set above requires rim swap which I have said repeatedly that I will not be doing.

[Lune]

I will update this thread after I have the set installed and have given the car enough driving to have a sound judgement. If I dislike them I will be honest about it.

 

edit: ....which reminds me. I should do that for another thread.

[JF1GG29]

Honestly, for street driving, the 4/2 pots are fine. They will feel less squishy than the sliding calipers. If you don't do any trackdays, canyon drives, etc., where you are putting a lot of heat into the brakes, I'm sure you'll like them.

 

It's just that a lot of us don't want to spend a grand to get lesser performance. Solution to the STi Brembos are some spacers for your wheels.

[JmP6889928]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the stock LGT calipers and brakes if set up correctly with Ti shims and the right fluid. I have many hundreds of track laps on mine with Centric Cryo rotors on all 4 and Hawk HP+ pads (worthless on the street as they dust clean wheels in about 60 feet).

 

A larger diameter rotor does affect the braking system by doing a far better job of dissipating heat. It allows more air to enter the cooling fins during rotation and gives more recovery time. I have a "big brake kit" on the back of my Mustang and it's basically front rotors off of an earlier GT Mustang for the rear and spacer kits for the rear calipers. Substantial difference in modulation and control by using the larger diameter rotor.

 

If you set up your LGT brakes correctly, you'll have excellent braking power and virtually no issues with them for a long time. Centric makes excellent reman calipers for LGT with a very nice zinc dichromate coating on them and they look good, are priced well, and won't rust.

[Wasted Potential]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the stock LGT calipers and brakes if set up correctly with Ti shims and the right fluid. I have many hundreds of track laps on mine with Centric Cryo rotors on all 4 and Hawk HP+ pads (worthless on the street as they dust clean wheels in about 60 feet).

 

A larger diameter rotor does affect the braking system by doing a far better job of dissipating heat. It allows more air to enter the cooling fins during rotation and gives more recovery time. I have a "big brake kit" on the back of my Mustang and it's basically front rotors off of an earlier GT Mustang for the rear and spacer kits for the rear calipers. Substantial difference in modulation and control by using the larger diameter rotor.

 

If you set up your LGT brakes correctly, you'll have excellent braking power and virtually no issues with them for a long time. Centric makes excellent reman calipers for LGT with a very nice zinc dichromate coating on them and they look good, are priced well, and won't rust.

 

What year and mods on the mustang?

[JmP6889928]

What year and mods on the mustang?

 

It's a 2014 Mustang Coupe. It has full GT500 suspension including sway bars and adjustable Ford Performance Motorsport F/R shocks/struts. It has a Fays2 watts link on the rear to replace the panhard rod along with BMR upper and lower rear control arms and relocation brackets. All bushings on the front and rear are replaced with Steeda PU bushing kit. BMR front K brace.

SRP aluminum driveshaft and 3:55 rear gear.

Brembo GT500 BBK on the front and Steeda BBK on the rear (aforementioned kit) with Porterfield (can't recall the number right at the moment) pads all around.

3.7L V-6 with BBK long tube headers, X pipe, AirRaid intake, BBK 73MM throttle body with BBK spacer, and is tuned to 388HP, 401Ft.Tq.

 

Ford Recaro seats, Steeda short shifter (6 speed MT-82 transmission), Steeda X brace in the rear strut towers and BMR front strut tower brace. Braum harness bar and Racer Direct 5 point harnesses, it has a very aggressive and nice front lip (can't recall from who right at the moment) and is solid black with white 12" LeMans stripes

 

One complete set of black 18' American Muscle wheels with 255/40-18 Continental Sport Contact and another set of identical American Muscle wheels in 19" with all season Dunlops on them (SOON to be replaced with something of the much grippier variety). 3 sets of aluminum lugs-red, silver, and black (to suit the mood...LOL).

 

It's sitting in the garage where it belongs until there is NO snow or NO salt....LOL