Turbo noise. Dealer says it is "normal".

[Lune]

I wanted to separate this from my first post as it is a different issue entirely.

 

A little history on my car:

I got it from a very reputable dealership that typically sells Porche, Mercedes and BMW. They acquired it as a trade in. It has a clean record and was a single owner car with no real issues. Shortly after getting the car there was a gasoline smell coming from the rear of the car. It ended up being a seal at the top of the gas tank. The dealership did the right thing and replaced it free of charge. I had bought the car with a warranty anyway, so they really had no choice.

 

I had the car brought to a local Subaru dealership (also fairly well respected among the Subaru community from what I know) and they gave it a clean bill of health. Within the first several months of owning the car the turbo failed. I stopped driving the car immediately as I recognized the likely culprit. The turbo was covered by the warranty and was replaced by this same dealership.

 

About a month later I got some error codes and no longer remember what they were. This all came about a week after getting my oil changed. After reading some threads here I suspect that it was the P0011 but I wouldn't be able to tell you for sure. Sure enough my oil was a bit low but only about 1.5 quarts. Still a lot but it surprised me as I get regular oil changes and check my oil about once every other fill up. After filling the oil there was no problem. A few weeks later I started hearing a kinda whirring airy noise that I thought was my turbo and my car would sometimes nearly stall at idle.

 

I brought it by the dealership, they listened to it, test drove it and couldn't replicate the stalling. They didn't hear what I was trying to point out with the turbo either. I took them for a test drive with me and I was able to reproduce the near stalling behavior but they still wouldn't admit to hearing the turbo noise. The only thing they could find is that the cover to my air filter wasn't buckled down all the way and it could have changed the air pressure. They recommended that I keep driving the car after fixing this and see what happens.

 

Since then I have not had the stalling issue but the turbo still sounds different. I haven't taken it back to the dealership because I'm afraid that I'll get the same story about it being a non-issue and that they can't hear it. They told me all turbos sound different but I swear my turbo has never sounded like this. It is a bit frustrating as a customer.

 

I'm not mechanic but I'm fairly handy. I have been reading the posts around here about similar issues and I am willing to bet that I have a problem with my turbo's bearing and I bet there is shaft play. I'm not sure I trust myself to check on my own but I'm not sure how to approach the situation with the dealership either. After reading the issues it can cause I don't really want to leave my car as is but then again, I have been driving it for over a year without any issue aside from this odd noise.

 

I think that they might be trying to protect themselves by staying in denial about any potential issue as they may not want to admit to problems with the turbo install. I don't want to suggest this to them outright, though. I just don't want problems with my car if they are avoidable. I would think they would be interested in heading off potential issues as well. It did seem odd that shortly after turbo replacement and an oil change that I should start having these problems.

 

I have read some of the threads on similar issues and heard about issues with banjo bolts and problems with improper oil supply to the turbo causing problems. I fear this might be a bit beyond me. With a decent guide I might dive in but doubt I would be able to resolve the issue if I found one. My guess is that the turbine is rubbing on the inside of my turbo due to bearing issues causing too much shaft play. I wouldn't be able to tell you the root cause but I'm certain that it is something that happened after the turbo install. Either during the install or in the oil change that came shortly after.

 

I'm really not sure how to approach the issue with the dealership. Any suggestions? Maybe just bring it back there and say that I'm still hearing it and ask if they can check the turbo for shaft play (giggity)?

[SleeperScoob]

Hmmm...

 

Take this suggestion with a grain of salt, but similar symptoms happened to me when the vacuum line at the center rear of the intake manifold (the one that T's off) popped off. I heard a bit more of a "wooshing" noise under boost, the car would run rich and sometimes stall or want to stall.

 

You may just have a vacuum/boost leak. Check all of your vacuum hoses, and the coupler on the intercooler.

[Max Capacity]

Does your state have a "lemon law" ?

 

You may want to PM JmP6889928 and see how far you are from him. He's our go to guy for rebuilding turbo's, he's in MI.

 

You should send a oil sample to Blackstone Labs, look them up on the web.

 

Read the sticky, http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turbo-failure-wiki-173358.html

 

The down pipe should be removed and the turbo checked for shaft play. with the pipe removed the banjo bolt is easier to get to.

 

The up pipe should be replaced with a catless one. That will also make the banjo really easy.

 

A boost leak test should be done, for piece of mind.

[JustCallMeNick]

I'm not sure but when the turbos fail on these cars sometimes they send bits of metal into the oiling system and it hides in small places, coming out later on and causing problems with engine bearings, or if there are banjo bolt filters potentially clogging them I suppose.

 

As far as checking the turbo for shaft play, you say you're fairly handy yourself. You can do this on your own if you have a jack and jack stands and a few wrenches. What you want to do is get underneath the car and remove the downpipe. I can't remember if you have to remove the turbo heat shield first or not but it will be obvious when you're looking at the bolts. A few of them are a little hard to get at so the hardest part of the job is patience but it's very doable. Once the downpipe is removed from the turbo and midpipe/catback, you will have direct access to gently check to see if the turbo propeller shaft will wiggle around or seems pretty secure in place.

 

It's normal for these cars to go through a little oil but if you just had the turbo changed and are suddenly going through way more oil then something's not right of course.

 

For sure make sure that banjo bolt filter is clear. I've never done that before.

 

Good luck! Keep us posted!

[Max Capacity]

Until your sure the oil is clean, I would leave the filter in the banjo bolt. Not something I normally recommend, but you do have a warranty to maintain.

[Lune]

No jack or jack stands.

 

The oil usage only was more than it should have been for a short time. It actually makes me think it may not have been filled completely when I last got my oil change. I'm not sure though, its just speculation.

 

And yeah, I do have a warranty. For a few months yet anyway. I'm thinking I'm going to get the car back in and be a bit more forceful that I know there is some issue even though there is no check engine light, etc. I'll have to find a way to lightly suggest checking for shaft play on the turbo, methinks. Even if I find that there is shaft play myself I can't fix it myself. They can and it is under warranty.

[I3eXa]

No jack or jack stands.

 

The oil usage only was more than it should have been for a short time. It actually makes me think it may not have been filled completely when I last got my oil change. I'm not sure though, its just speculation.

 

And yeah, I do have a warranty. For a few months yet anyway. I'm thinking I'm going to get the car back in and be a bit more forceful that I know there is some issue even though there is no check engine light, etc. I'll have to find a way to lightly suggest checking for shaft play on the turbo, methinks. Even if I find that there is shaft play myself I can't fix it myself. They can and it is under warranty.

 

but if you do check for play yourself you can go to the dealer with the issue and tell them that a 'new' turbo shouldn't have any. Therefore the turbo is bad and gonna cause more issues down the road. OR, you can send the turbo to JMP and have him do a custom rebuild on it. More power and more reliability. Problem solved.

[John J]

I wanted to separate this from my first post as it is a different issue entirely.

 

A little history on my car:

.

 

About a month later I got some error codes and no longer remember what they were. This all came about a week after getting my oil changed. After reading some threads here I suspect that it was the P0011 but I wouldn't be able to tell you for sure.

 

 

Who changed the oil and what filter did they use?

 

After buying my LGT from a forum member with 160K miles I took it to my trusted local mechanic for an oil change and shortly after received the P0011. Found out later he uses the cheapest NAPA filters and I think the bypass opened up and that clogged the banjo bolt filter. The sound of the turbo did change after that incident and I eventually replaced it. After all it was the original turbo with 160k miles on it.

 

Now I do my own oil changes using only Subaru filters, and every change is analyzed.

[Max Capacity]

No jack or jack stands.

 

The oil usage only was more than it should have been for a short time. It actually makes me think it may not have been filled completely when I last got my oil change. I'm not sure though, its just speculation.

 

And yeah, I do have a warranty. For a few months yet anyway. I'm thinking I'm going to get the car back in and be a bit more forceful that I know there is some issue even though there is no check engine light, etc. I'll have to find a way to lightly suggest checking for shaft play on the turbo, methinks. Even if I find that there is shaft play myself I can't fix it myself. They can and it is under warranty.

 

 

Without basic tools...you may be better off to trade the car on some other car. These things need TLC to keep them happy and running well.

[Lune]

No way. I love my car and have no intention of trading it in. My last car was a '97 Legacy GT and I loved it until it finally died as well. I do have some basic tools but lack experience and know how. Just because I don't do the work myself doesn't mean that the car isn't well maintained.

 

I know that I'm posting on a forum that is likely filled with enthusiasts who love doing their own work. I do what I can when I can. The last work that I did was replacing my hub assemblies but I couldn't have done it without the help of a friend and his power tools. When a job is beyond me I have no problem taking it to someone more qualified.

 

The issue that I have here is that I know that there is something wrong despite the lack of a check engine light. I tried taking it to a reputable dealership and they say nothing is wrong. Coupled with the fact I have a warranty still I am stuck in a bit of a hard spot.

[Lune]

I should also mention that ever since this incident my car also suffers from the uneven acceleration that I have been reading about here. It isn't nearly as bad as the other threads I have seen and I think it is likely due to whatever is causing this sound that I am referring to. It does happen most prominently just under 3k RPM. To someone who doesn't drive the car as frequently as I do and isn't as in tune with it they might not even notice it much. But I do.

 

I'm sure that people might think I'm being a bit of a car hypochondriac after reading the threads here. I'm also weighing in my head if I am looking for issues that don't exist. But I have been noticing this for some time now and the threads on the topic were more of a confirmation for me. But I think this issue is more of a result of whatever is causing the noise I mentioned rather than a separate issue.

[Max Capacity]

Ok now that we know your serious...

 

If you think the turbo is making noise or about too, the best thing to do is drop the down pipe and feel the turbo shaft and see how much play it has. Basically, if you can feel any, think about replacing it.

 

If your friend can help you that would be great, pulling the DP the first time is the hardest. I can swap my catless for the stock pipe in 45 minutes, I do it every 2 years for emission testing.

 

You can try moving the vacuum hose that feeds the FPR from #4 intake runner to a T off the blow off valve. That helped my Spec B. Like you, I feel it, but no one does.

 

My wagon with a custom tune does not do the surging from 2400-2900rpm.

 

Lets run down the list,

Cleaned the MAF sensor

clean air filter

spark plugs replaced every 60,000 miles

clean ground wires from heads to chassis

clean ground connection on the bar behind the intake manifold near the brake booster

clean and tight battery terminals

[Max Capacity]

Do you have the service manual,

 

http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

[Lune]

Sadly my friend moved 1.5hrs away. Took all of his tools with him, the selfish jerk. I may still hit him up with this though.

 

If I do end up doing it myself before bringing it to the shop I'm likely to just replace the downpipe while I'm in there. Even if I feel play in it I'm likely to have the stock turbo replaced by the shop under warranty. I wonder if I would be able to barter just giving me the value of the turbo towards the purchase of another one instead? Probably not worth hoping for, eh?

 

edit: I do indeed have the service manual. Thank you though.

[Max Capacity]

If you want to DIY we have all the tips and knowledge to help you.

 

Harbor Fright is a great place to get the tools from.

 

Most of us upgrade to a VF52 or as posted have JmP6889928 rebuild yours with an upgrade. if you upgrade you'll need a tune, but that is what all these cars need any ways to keep them safe.

 

05-06's need to have the catted up pipe replaced too. If you look through my click here link, you'll see where I bolt the turbo on to the up pipe.

[Lune]

Well, I had planned on doing all my exhaust work before upgrading the turbo. But sometimes repairs change the order of upgrade plans.

 

I had been seriously eyeing the COBB and Grimmspeed Stage 2 packages. I had been just going to leave the turbo as is as I have heard that the engines can't handle a lot of boost without doing a fair amount of engine work. After reading on these forums though I understand that the vf52 is just a superior product. The COBB package includes an accessport which I would honestly rather not buy. I would rather leave that to a tuner.

 

So, uh... anyone know a good tuner near my area?

 

By the way, I saw a car that looked an awful lot like yours the other day, Wetmyson. Top rack, gold rims and GT. Could have been someone else, though. You weren't around Lansing recently, were you?

[Max Capacity]

These cars don't need a lot of HP to be fun to drive.

 

My wagon is a great DD. That's a stock ej257 short block with a mild porting in the valve pockets on the heads the thinning of the dividers.

 

If you can't go "open source" tune then Cobb is the best product out there. Both my cars have Cobb AP. I only use them when I need to upgrade the tune.

 

A few of the members here have used my wagon as a model to copy. It runs that well.

 

My tuner is www.tuningalliance.com

[Lune]

Been reading through your thread, Max. I think you bolted the turbo on to the up pipe around page 9 or so? None of the pictures are showing up for me (if there are any). It might be because I'm at work and the firewall is blocking it. I'll have to take a look at home. In fact can't access the tuning alliance page here.

 

I will assume that you mean that you use maps that you downloaded from a site for your tune. But to get a custom tune to fit your car you need a guy to do that unless you have the personal experience required (which I don't), correct? Right now I guess I don't really need a custom tune. Just a tune for stock parts with 93 octane will likely do. Still, that COBB AP is like $600 in that kit. Is it really worth that? I'm having trouble justifying that cost but I trust what I hear from people here.

[Max Capacity]

Yea the pictures will show up once your home, I have the same problem at work.

 

E-tunes, you use the Cobb AP to data log a engine pull in 4rd gear from 2500rpm to 5000rpm download that to your PC, email it to Mike, he'll review it, make adjustments and email you the new map.

 

I have done that once for both cars but I'm lucky and he's about a 19 minute drive from me.

 

 

If you have a trixtrax cable or whatever it is and are good with a lap top you can do the same thing for the price of the cable. I think its $150.00 for the cable.

 

You can read about that in the Tuning Forum. Mike is a Vendor here so you can get to him from his page below.

 

 

Every car is a little different, with Cobb its one tune fits all, with Mike its your tune and nobody else's. I think if you buy the Cobb from Mike it comes with some added benefits, but that's up to him, I can't speak for him. Let him know I sent you.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/tuning-alliance-121.html?s=&daysprune=&f=121

[jah77clash]

Also join some local Subaru enthusiasts groups on Facebook if you use it. Perhaps members with the means to help you pull the pipe and check the shaft play will happily do so and ya get to meet new friends.