JustCallMeNick Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I was looking through other threads trying to find some answers, and came across the one below. I don't know enough about this kinda thing, but I wonder if your alignment is just way, way off maybe? http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/knocking-stutter-steering-very-slow-speeds-45829p2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08SpecB_DE Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Have you checked the joints on the steering shaft? They are known to bind and cause a popping noise. If it's not the spring or top hat, my vote is the steering shaft. Your description matches up to any one of these components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahagr Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Have you checked the joints on the steering shaft? They are known to bind and cause a popping noise. If it's not the spring or top hat, my vote is the steering shaft. Your description matches up to any one of these components. If it was the steering shaft I'd feel it pretty good in the steering wheel wouldn;t I? So I hired a CL mechanic and he came to the conclusion that it was the steering rack because of the weird noise that it made. I just changed the rack and for the first few minutes it didnt pop. Until it did. At this pont I've dumped about $400 into the car, and thats all money that I didnt even have :/ So how can you check the tophats for sure? Like i mentioned, they dont make any grinding noise or bind when turning from lock to lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08SpecB_DE Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 If it was the steering shaft I'd feel it pretty good in the steering wheel wouldn;t I? So I hired a CL mechanic and he came to the conclusion that it was the steering rack because of the weird noise that it made. I just changed the rack and for the first few minutes it didnt pop. Until it did. At this pont I've dumped about $400 into the car, and thats all money that I didnt even have :/ So how can you check the tophats for sure? Like i mentioned, they dont make any grinding noise or bind when turning from lock to lock You said you can feel it in the steering wheel a couple pages back. At this point, you should take it to a reputable shop and let them look it over. The more I re-read, the more I realize it can be a lot of different things. If you live close to Delaware I can check it out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahagr Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 You said you can feel it in the steering wheel a couple pages back. At this point, you should take it to a reputable shop and let them look it over. The more I re-read, the more I realize it can be a lot of different things. If you live close to Delaware I can check it out for you. I would love to take it to a shop but I don't think I can afford $100+/hr rates, even to get this far I had to pawn some of my valuables. I guess one upside is I've confirmed the steering rack isnt the problem.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I don't really go there much anymore, but part of me wants to post this over at bitog (bobistheoilguy.com) just to see what their thoughts are, if you're ok with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahagr Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 I don't really go there much anymore, but part of me wants to post this over at bitog (bobistheoilguy.com) just to see what their thoughts are, if you're ok with it. Fine by me, I can use all the help I can get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahagr Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 If you live close to Delaware I can check it out for you. Thank you so much for the offer! I'm in WA so that wont work but this is why I love these forums, everyone is so helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Fine by me, I can use all the help I can get Ok cool, worth a try. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4318129 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahagr Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Ok cool, worth a try. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4318129 Thanks man I appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 So how can you check the tophats for sure? Like i mentioned, they dont make any grinding noise or bind when turning from lock to lock Also, for what it's worth, top hats themselves aren't super expensive. When I replaced all four of my struts at around 155k, I also replaced all 4 of my strut mounts/top hats. I think the OEM strut mounts are pretty stout, mine seemed ok at 155k. The more I think about it, and the more I watch the video, it does look and sound like it could be one or both of your springs binding up and releasing rapidly. Sort of like what I mentioned in my video below, except much more frequently than just a one time pop. https://youtu.be/tGuJMVwxDxw My concern with just replacing the top hats is, if the car was in an accident, something in one or both of your strut assemblies could be bent, causing the spring to not rotate smoothly, and bind up. You can buy aftermarket front strut mounts for $30-$40 each (I paid around $65 each for OEM). The hard/dangerous part is installing them. You need to compress and then decompress your springs to replace them. Like I said in the video above, I installed a washer upside down by accident on one side, and the result was the spring binding up and then popping when I turned the wheel. Strut mounts/top hats http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/subaru,2009,legacy,2.5l+h4,1443525,suspension,strut+mount,7600 Then there are quick struts. New struts, springs, top hats, everything assembled and ready to pop in. For $90 each I don't know about the quality, but they're super easy to install since they're pre-assembled. Quick struts, fully assembled, ready to install. http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/subaru,2009,legacy,2.5l+h4,1443525,suspension,strut+/+coil+spring+/+mount+assembly,15174 I would hate to see you spend the money on these items above and not fix the problem, but I'm just throwing them out there as options if you do decide to go that route. I'd just be nervous that new top hats wouldn't fix the problem. At 35k, I think something must be damaged, or installed wrong, or torqued down wrong to cause the spring to bind up, if it is binding up and releasing to cause that popping sound. Based off how long my oem top hats lasted without issues, I would just be really surprised if yours failed at 35k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahagr Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 Also, for what it's worth, top hats themselves aren't super expensive. When I replaced all four of my struts at around 155k, I also replaced all 4 of my strut mounts/top hats. I think the OEM strut mounts are pretty stout, mine seemed ok at 155k. The more I think about it, and the more I watch the video, it does look and sound like it could be one or both of your springs binding up and releasing rapidly. Sort of like what I mentioned in my video below, except much more frequently than just a one time pop. https://youtu.be/tGuJMVwxDxw My concern with just replacing the top hats is, if the car was in an accident, something in one or both of your strut assemblies could be bent, causing the spring to not rotate smoothly, and bind up. You can buy aftermarket front strut mounts for $30-$40 each (I paid around $65 each for OEM). The hard/dangerous part is installing them. You need to compress and then decompress your springs to replace them. Like I said in the video above, I installed a washer upside down by accident on one side, and the result was the spring binding up and then popping when I turned the wheel. Strut mounts/top hats http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/subaru,2009,legacy,2.5l+h4,1443525,suspension,strut+mount,7600 Then there are quick struts. New struts, springs, top hats, everything assembled and ready to pop in. For $90 each I don't know about the quality, but they're super easy to install since they're pre-assembled. Quick struts, fully assembled, ready to install. http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/subaru,2009,legacy,2.5l+h4,1443525,suspension,strut+/+coil+spring+/+mount+assembly,15174 I would hate to see you spend the money on these items above and not fix the problem, but I'm just throwing them out there as options if you do decide to go that route. I'd just be nervous that new top hats wouldn't fix the problem. At 35k, I think something must be damaged, or installed wrong, or torqued down wrong to cause the spring to bind up, if it is binding up and releasing to cause that popping sound. Based off how long my oem top hats lasted without issues, I would just be really surprised if yours failed at 35k. Wouldn't failed top hats cause more consistent pops? I mean like wouldn't it pop everytime I turned the wheel? I guess it should be something suspension related because suspension loading is a major factor in when the popping occurs. I've have the car jacked up in the air and the front wheel suspension loaded with a jack while turning the wheels and listening for any noise coming from the suspension and it came up clean. I'll do some more testing when I get back today, I should probably invest in a stethoscope too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahagr Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 I'm not very experienced with suspension related components but would loosening the nut on the top hat give me anything? Like say it's a bad bearing, would the the whole bearing sin around instead of popping if I loosen the nut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I'm not very experienced with suspension related components but would loosening the nut on the top hat give me anything? Like say it's a bad bearing, would the the whole bearing sin around instead of popping if I loosen the nut? No, just make sure that nut is torqued to spec. If it is loose, it would be more likely to make noise. See video below for example: There are several things to check re: top hats. Refer to the FSM section "FS". Page FS-4 has a nice diagram that shows all the connections. - 3 self-locking nuts holding top of strut body to mount: 14.5 ft-lbs - center nut holding strut assembly together: 112.1 ft-lbs - 2 self-locking nuts holding side of strut body to steering knuckle: 112.1 ft-lbs - strut mount bearing spins freely and has lube - spring is "clocked" correctly in the mount http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/strut-noise-question-video-245517.html?p=5238805 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/bad-strut-top-bearing-bad-struti-243306.html?p=5201651 http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/knocking-sound-hitting-bumps-front-left-165991.html?p=3489428 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
08SpecB_DE Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I understand you don't have money but you threw a $400 rack in the car because a CL mechanic told you that was the problem... You can continue getting ideas as to what it could be or take it to a pro in your area who can put his eyes and ears on the problem. I think in this case, in order for you to save money you are going to have to spend it first. Did the tires ever leave the ground when the mechanic looked at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahagr Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 So I finally had a breakthrough today. I checked the right top hat nut and it seemed pretty tight, I gave it a few solid pushes in both directions. Next I checked the drivers side nut which came loose after a good push which seemed odd so I tightened best I could with the nut flexing the rubber and took the car for a spin. I tried my best to recreate the popping noise but I couldnt. Instead I got a squeaking noise that was clearly coming from the drivers side strut area. The squeaking is audible when I hit bumps and as far as I can tell it usually only happens in the first 90 or so degrees of turning the wheel when I have some speed. Bumps can effect it at any time though. This is really odd because the popping noise sounded very mechanical and very tense and seemed to come from the middle-right floor. The squeak comes from the top of the left strut and is present when turning in both directions. It also occurs a lot more commonly which while it does sound a lot more benign, it does make it significantly more annoying. Anyways so I aligned the wheel best I could and took the car out to the city (surprisingly it doesnt pull to the side from the first try). I noticed while taking a rather sharp right corner that the left side did make a more solid clunk reminiscent of the old popping noise and while it did sound a different I can see how a more severe clunk from there could sound like the old popping noise. Either way I'm ecstatic to have made some progress and I'm gonna try to torque down the tophat nuts properly tomorrow and see if that gets rid of the squeaking. So for that can I just have someone hold the steering wheel or do I need something like a spark plug socket so that I can slip an allen in there to hold the strut from rotating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 ...So for that can I just have someone hold the steering wheel or do I need something like a spark plug socket so that I can slip an allen in there to hold the strut from rotating? That large top bolt is threaded onto the end of the strut's piston shaft. That shaft is free to rotate in the strut housing. So, you must use an allen wrench to keep the shaft from rotating while you tighten the large nut down with another wrench (box-end, ratcheting wrench, pass-through socket, whatever). Holding the steering wheel won't stop that shaft from turning. Don't make the mistake of grabbing the shaft with pliers or vice-grips, either, that will ruin your strut very quickly. Just set the steering wheel straight ahead before you tighten things down with the wrenches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahagr Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 That large top bolt is threaded onto the end of the strut's piston shaft. That shaft is free to rotate in the strut housing. So, you must use an allen wrench to keep the shaft from rotating while you tighten the large nut down with another wrench (box-end, ratcheting wrench, pass-through socket, whatever). Holding the steering wheel won't stop that shaft from turning. Don't make the mistake of grabbing the shaft with pliers or vice-grips, either, that will ruin your strut very quickly. Just set the steering wheel straight ahead before you tighten things down with the wrenches. Perfect I just remembered I bought a pass-through socket/wrench set a while back, finally got a chance to use it. So for that creaking/squeaking noise, lets assume that all the suspension bushings are fine, can the actual strut or spring make that noise or is it just the top hat that can sound like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahagr Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 I just wanted to share this interesting post I found on eBay. It's a strut for my car that costs $15 shipped and its from a very experienced seller. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shock-Absorber-and-Strut-Assembly-New-Left-Hand-Front-Driver-Side-LH-For-Legacy-/351395124217?fits=Year%3A2009%7CMake%3ASubaru%7CModel%3ALegacy%7CSubmodel%3A2.5i+Special+Edition%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A2.5L&hash=item51d0c813f9:g:YlMAAOSw0UdXsy~~&vxp=mtr I don't plan on buying it I just thought it was kinda weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesA Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 There is another potential source of noise in the strut that I was telling you about earlier. Make sure the spring is clocked correctly. That is, make sure the spring is rotated so that it fits correctly in the top mount. The FSM shows you what it should look like. It is easy enough to unbolt the top of the strut from the car (3 bolts) and see that the strut mount spins freely and quietly. A bit of silicone grease on that rotating part might not be a bad idea, while you are in there. When you bolt the strut back in, 14.5 ft-lbs is the torque spec. Don't over-tighten those 3 bolts, the studs can easily break. I don't want to assume anything about your suspension. If I were in your shoes, I would look at that diagram in the FSM (page FS-4) and go through and check every single one of those connections to make sure the bushings were good and the torque on the fasteners is correct. OEM Subaru struts tend to last a long time. If they go bad you will see oil leaking from them. Not likely to happen until 100K+ miles. People sometimes replace them just because they want something else, not because they are worn out. I'm amazed those Ebay struts can be made, sold and shipped for that price, but I wouldn't trust them to drive around the block, much less down a curvy mountain road at 75 mph. Cheap parts are cheap for a reason which is usually poor quality and performance. They usually end up costing you more time, trouble and money than something decent would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Any updates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahagr Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Any updates? I've been holding off on posting because I don't have anything concrete yet. The noise has gotten a lot worse since last time I posted and as I mentioned earlier it of a difference nature and seems to come from the driver's side strut. I've ordered a coil compressor tool and I'm gonna pull the strut when it comes it. You can literally feel something loose inside the suspension and slides when you turn. There's a lot more road noise and the steering feels uneasy staying center and is more happy turning away from center but that is most likely due to alignment which I have not yet done professionally because I wanna eliminate each variable one at a time. I also noticed a slight ticking sound when I turn right similar to what was described of a bad diff but that is the last thing on my mind right now. The current problem is 90% likely the strut. I will update when I have it apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustCallMeNick Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I've been holding off on posting because I don't have anything concrete yet. The noise has gotten a lot worse since last time I posted and as I mentioned earlier it of a difference nature and seems to come from the driver's side strut. I've ordered a coil compressor tool and I'm gonna pull the strut when it comes it. You can literally feel something loose inside the suspension and slides when you turn. There's a lot more road noise and the steering feels uneasy staying center and is more happy turning away from center but that is most likely due to alignment which I have not yet done professionally because I wanna eliminate each variable one at a time. I also noticed a slight ticking sound when I turn right similar to what was described of a bad diff but that is the last thing on my mind right now. The current problem is 90% likely the strut. I will update when I have it apart. For future reference, you can rent tools like spring compressors pretty commonly at parts stores like Auto Zone, Advance, O'Reilly. Also, be careful when compressing the spring. Make sure it doesn't jump out and decapitate you. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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