OUBob Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 Guess I should have known I'd have an issue with the racket the engine made on initial startup until the oil pressure was up... 2500 miles in and it has developed a knock on startup. Just a few taps, until oil pressure is up. Needs to sit for 12 or so hours after shut down for taps to return. What's my course of action? Check for metal in oil, I guess? Maybe I'll let it sit a week, drain a quart through a coffee filter... Too bad. Really ran and sounded well otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUBob Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 The Subie engines won't handle it. You need to be very thorough getting all metal pieces out. I LOLed when I re-read this thread. I thought I had been very thorough. 4 cans of brake cleaner, a new rubber tipped blow gun, various oriface brushes... Guess I missed an oriface. Or don't trust used oil coolers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Sorry to hear your troubles. Did you read the sticky's... The heads and block need to be cleaned by a machine shop, replace all oil system pieces. Was the oil pan and valve covers cleaned by a machine shop... Many of us have posted how to do it the right way the first time. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUBob Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 Machine shop got the block, heads, VCs and Oil pan. I disassembled the oil pump and flushed the lines with brake cleaner, air and oil. I picked up a used oil cooler off of a "bad head gasket" engine. Eek. Finicky little devils. Quite the science experiment. At least I know there is less metal in the engine now than there was when I got it. Just for poops and grins, let's say I attempt this job again. Can these cranks be turned? The Hondas I have experience with have hardened journals and are pretty much maxed at .010. Also, I PROMISE to replace anything that comes in contact with the oil that isn't an integral engine piece! Thanks folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUBob Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 Just got the used oil analysis back from Blackstone. Elevated amounts of bearing material metals. Good news is well below average iron levels for this engine. Hopefully another clean out, crank polish and NEW oil cooler handle it. Anyone think there is an issue cleaning the valve covers? I remember looking at those thinking there are a TON of passages in there... This may be a life changing event. Thinking of throwing away all of my old Honda Oil coolers and valve covers. Truth, NO WAY they can be completely cleaned. I don't think Ill look at another rebuild involving bearing failure the same again... Should be easier the second time, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 So this oil sample was after a rebuild ? Don't understand about the Honda things... 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 You can probably clean oil coolers as well, but you need to flush them thoroughly. Start with getting out oil residue with gasoline or other solvent, then hot water. Both ways several times. And then blow it dry, start with compressed air and then you could use a vacuum cleaner that you hook up to one of the connectors and let it run for a few hours to get out all water. If any remaining fragment don't come out after that and comes out later then it's a really fragment. The point is that the effort needed makes it uneconomic for a commercial operation but for a hobbyist a part may be more expensive than the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUBob Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 So this oil sample was after a rebuild ? Don't understand about the Honda things... Correct, after rebuild. Put about 2500 miles on it. Hondas have oil coolers and valve covers that appear to be slightly easier to access for cleaning. I'm putting together a Honda engine now, paranoia is affecting me. New OEM oil coolers are NLA for this application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUBob Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 As far as cleaning the oil cooler, seems it would be amazing if I could hook up a parts cleaner to it with the ability to reverse flow of the solvent, all while the cooler gets ultrasonic vibration. Maybe I should stop speculating and just tear the dern thing apart and see what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 I understand about the Honda valve covers, notice my avatar. (9 second civic) I would do a few quick oil changes hoping to flush particles out. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUBob Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Figured I'd update this: Got everything apart again, most of it appeared similar to when it was put together, except; There are slight signs of metal cont. on the bearing faces, except for rod #4, which was thoroughly chewed, and the thrust edges of the bearings were heavily worn. I assume rod #4 took the hit b/c it would have the least volume of oil flowing through it to flush it? I bought a cheap ultra-sonic cleaner figured I'd toss that oil cooler in there. 8+ hrs of run time, oriented every which way in the tank, multiple fluid change outs and filling/dumping fluid out of it literally hundreds of times DID NOT REMOVE ALL THE METAL. So, this time, same steps as before, with a new crank, OIL COOLER and oil pump. May go for new pistons too, I don't like the minute but visible "vertical" scoring on the skirts, esp. considering the coating on this part of the piston skirt is gone. Any one have any advice to add RE: the skirt scoring? Thanks! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUBob Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Also, some learning about oil filters: most have a relief/bypass pressure set at 10-14 psi, meaning once oil pressure exceeds the relief valve pressure, almost no filtering of the oil is going to occur... Does anyone have any specs/knowledge of oil filters with a higher relief pressure setting? I'd like to be able to at least idle and get 100% of the oil passing through the filter media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Also, some learning about oil filters: most have a relief/bypass pressure set at 10-14 psi, meaning once oil pressure exceeds the relief valve pressure, almost no filtering of the oil is going to occur... Does anyone have any specs/knowledge of oil filters with a higher relief pressure setting? I'd like to be able to at least idle and get 100% of the oil passing through the filter media. The alternative is filters with a larger filter area instead of higher pressure relief valve. Increasing the pressure over the filter might result in other unwanted effects instead. Unfortunately the filter position sucks and don't really permit a larger filter. Maybe an oil filter relocation kit could help you - and combine with an oil cooler; http://www.performancevh.com/product-page/oil-filter-relocation-housing-w-thermostat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUBob Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 ^ Not looking to make a normal oil filter go boom, just looking to see if there are filters designed to hold a bit more pressure before bypassing the element. In unsubstantiated research (the internet sez...) I'm seeing Subaru oil pumps around 20-25 psi at idle, warm. Therefore, oil pressures will be much higher at cold startup, substantially bypassing the oil filter. Man, that sucks if its true. I'm going to have to get bags to store heads/blocks/internals in if I'm not going to assemble them immediately. Dust will get ALL OVER crank journals if I so much as stop to eat a sammich. I bag small stuff and box up larger stuff if I'm not going to get back to it for a few days, but that doesn't seem like it will cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUBob Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 Unfortunately the filter position sucks and don't really permit a larger filter. Maybe an oil filter relocation kit could help you - and combine with an oil cooler; http://www.performancevh.com/product-page/oil-filter-relocation-housing-w-thermostat Thanks for the link, that's pretty sweet, and not expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 Buy oem oil filters. They are cheap enough in cost but have the proper bypass spec. If you want alternatives that have the proper bypass spec: Mazda N3R1-14-302 (filter made by tokyo roki and the same as previousoem subaru) Wix 7712 Wix 7055 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 +1 for the Mazda N3R1-14-302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 ^ Not looking to make a normal oil filter go boom, just looking to see if there are filters designed to hold a bit more pressure before bypassing the element. It's just the paper in the filter that risks blow - the pressure valve is there to protect the filter paper. The best way to get the expected result is to maximize the filter area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUBob Posted June 29, 2018 Author Share Posted June 29, 2018 UPDATE: After further research/advice, I learned something new: The pressures I cited previously are for DIFFERENTIAL PRESSURE, not overall pressure. When there is a high pressure difference between the pre-filter and post-filter side, the valve opens. As long as the filter media isn't heavily clogged, there should be virtually no situation where unfiltered oil is passed through the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 UPDATE: After further research/advice, I learned something new: The pressures I cited previously are for DIFFERENTIAL PRESSURE, not overall pressure. When there is a high pressure difference between the pre-filter and post-filter side, the valve opens. As long as the filter media isn't heavily clogged, there should be virtually no situation where unfiltered oil is passed through the engine. That's partially right, but then the filter is long overdue for replacement. A more common case is when the oil is cold and that's a good reason to have a low viscosity value for the cold value of the oil. So a 0W30 is better than a 5W30 from that perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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