Blown turbo advice sought

[OUBob]

I picked up a 2005 OBW XT recently, with a blown turbo. Turbo is a mess, snapped shaft, both wheels are nasty. Intake side housing looks ok, no gouges. The exhaust side housing is a bit scored up though. How much contact is too much to reuse the housings? (I would polish them smooth again, of course).

 

The exhaust wheel shed quite a bit of metal when it let go, NONE was found in either cat. Where the heck did it go? Hopefully just to the bottom of the oil pan.

 

Some coolant or water was seen in the turbo. I can't tell which it is. Emulsified oil is throughout the entire intake system. Where did the moisture come from?

 

 

I am curious if anyone has any input from experience reusing housings/replacing the chra unit after a major failure. I appears to be slightly cheaper to get a non-Chinese chra than a used unit. I would assume it would be more durable, also.

 

If I choose to replace the entire unit with a reman, should I step up to the VF46? Looks like they are $100-$150 more than the VF46.

 

Thanks!

Bob

[ehsnils]

The exhaust wheel wouldn't end up in the oil pan - that's a completely different place.

 

If the turbo has blown that badly I'd tear down the engine and clean out everything to ensure that no metal pieces are to be found hidden anywhere since they can cause a major engine failure.

 

If you are lucky the engine is still not damaged from the turbo failure. At least not seriously.

 

So look forward to a lot of work and investments in seals and gaskets. Patience and thorough work pays off since these engines are sensitive to turbo failures.

[OUBob]

Not the whole wheel, just the bits missing from the blades.

 

Just drained the oil, couple of rusty iron chunks smaller than a bb came out. Buncha iron pieces smaller than a pinhead. Very little amount of brass and aluminum colored flecks/streaks. Nothing copper colored.

 

It appears to me that there was very little, if any circulation of contaminants in the oil. I feel the bottom end is still in good shape. I'll pull the intake off and check/clean it next weekend. I did not see anything in the oil that was in the intake side that was scary, just that it is present, and contained either water of coolant.

 

I guess what I'm really trying to figure out is how much damage can the exhaust side housing sustain before it needs to be replaced? If I can polish it smooth again, how much will the performance be affected by removing a few hundredths of an inch of material?

[grovlet]

Well - From experience - that engine will be in trouble.... Maybe not now - but at some point....

 

Ohh - and be prepared - more turbos will blow in the future.....

 

Yeah - I know you're thinking no problem swap turbo and good to go - I promise there's metal in the oil passages somewhere - read through the threads - it's almost guaranteed....

[OUBob]

I'm aware there will be metal in there. I believe the engine can handle it. Or, at least, other engines I've dealt with can handle it. The turbo? That's a different story. Definitely will keep the banjo bolt screen, and check often. Once I get it back together, I will bring it up to temp, let it run for a few minutes, then change the oil and filter. Then the next few oil changes every 1k miles, and take a can opener to the filter to see what I've won. From there, the oil change interval will be based on what the filters tell me.

 

The engine has 170k on it now, I got the car so cheap, if I need to rebuild, I'm still WAY ahead. I want to clean it up as best I can, replace the failed parts and address the root cause on the cheap first. From what I see, I'm not risking catastrophic failure of the engine by doing this. If it develops a rod knock, chews up valve seats/guides, etc... no biggie.

 

That's why I want to know if a slightly dinged up turbo housing poses a problem. If I can use it, all I need is a crap ton of oil/filters and a new chra. If I need the entire turbo, it may be more economical to just pull and rebuild now.

[fahr_side]

Perhaps the stickies need to be in larger, brighter or even flashing fonts...

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turbo-failure-wiki-250286.html

[OUBob]

Perhaps the stickies need to be in larger, brighter or even flashing fonts...

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/turbo-failure-wiki-250286.html

 

Read through it a half dozen times. Not a word regarding my initial questions. See my original post. I guess looking for vf46 cost opinions is what set you off?

[Max Capacity]

Most of us just upgrade to a vf52, or send your turbo out to www.tuningalliance.com or JmP6889928 to be rebuilt.

 

The will need a tune for the vf52. But its a great upgrade. TA is a great tuner.

 

You'll find that a lot of us here answer the same question weekly, so don't worry if we don't answer each and every point in your first thread about a blown turbo.

 

You'll find that fahr_side has lots of knowledge and is someone your going to want to have help you.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Max Capacity

[OUBob]

I get it, I show up with 10 posts asking about turbo replacement, I'm going to look like a n00b. The sticky thread is very helpful and lead me to ask the previous questions.

 

I figured it would be a long shot to have all of the questions answered, regardless of how many brains chipped in.

 

VF52 might be a bit aggressive for this car, an auto with 170k on it. Definitely looks like a value for the performance upgrade though. Also, fuel efficiency is a consideration. I'm also considering the BNR 16G because of the ball bearing/potential additional durability.

[Tuning Alliance]

I get it, I show up with 10 posts asking about turbo replacement, I'm going to look like a n00b. The sticky thread is very helpful and lead me to ask the previous questions.

 

I figured it would be a long shot to have all of the questions answered, regardless of how many brains chipped in.

 

VF52 might be a bit aggressive for this car, an auto with 170k on it. Definitely looks like a value for the performance upgrade though. Also, fuel efficiency is a consideration. I'm also considering the BNR 16G because of the ball bearing/potential additional durability.

 

How is a vf52 too much for you car, but your considering a 16G BB?

 

I would just find a blown 52, get it rebuild and tune. More reliable/tested proven turbo (also direct replacement).

 

-Brian

[ehsnils]

I'm aware there will be metal in there. I believe the engine can handle it.

 

The Subie engines won't handle it. You need to be very thorough getting all metal pieces out.

[Max Capacity]

I get it, I show up with 10 posts asking about turbo replacement, I'm going to look like a n00b. The sticky thread is very helpful and lead me to ask the previous questions.

 

I figured it would be a long shot to have all of the questions answered, regardless of how many brains chipped in.

 

VF52 might be a bit aggressive for this car, an auto with 170k on it. Definitely looks like a value for the performance upgrade though. Also, fuel efficiency is a consideration. I'm also considering the BNR 16G because of the ball bearing/potential additional durability.

 

How is a vf52 too much for you car, but your considering a 16G BB?

 

I would just find a blown 52, get it rebuild and tune. More reliable/tested proven turbo (also direct replacement).

 

-Brian

 

OUBob, I'm kind of the poster child for a vf52 on these cars. TA did my tune back in Aug 2011, the turbo has been great on stock fueling and oil feed with banjo filters removed.

 

The car is so much fun to drive, I can't see replacing it, tho I would like something newer, but just can justify the expense when this thing runs so great.

[OUBob]

The VF52 is really moving up on the list. Added durability, huh? Guess I need to look into getting the oil pan off to clean this thing out. Got under it last weekend with the 10mm and was unpleasantly surprised by the engine cradle over the rear pan bolts.

 

As far as retuning, the rest of the car is stock. Do I need a custom tune, or can I send the ECU out for a reflash?

 

BIG question, will an automatic with 170k miles on it be able to handle the added power? Its a one owner, dealer serviced vehicle; its duties will primarily include grocery getting and commuting with the wife. Maybe Bed, Bath and Beyond, if there is time.

[xxBLOOD88SHOTxx]

Don't forge the restrictor plate Frank.

[Max Capacity]

If your not at all looking for performance, you might be better off with a vf46 off of a 07-09.

 

Talk with Brian or Mike at TA Mike can rebuild your turbo, may be.

[Tuning Alliance]

If your not at all looking for performance, you might be better off with a vf46 off of a 07-09.

 

Talk with Brian or Mike at TA Mike can rebuild your turbo, may be.

 

Depends how damaged, if the blades tore up anything then its not advisable to rebuild. Would need to see pics.

 

If you are looking for a stock turbo, you can use a VF40 or VF46 they are essentially the same.

 

-Brian

[OUBob]

... if the blades tore up anything then its not advisable to rebuild.

 

 

There it is. Using the finger mic, there are .5-.75 mm grooves/ridges in the housing. I should be able to get a good, smooth surface on it, but I am now doubting it would be even. I'm going to bet an uneven chamber is as bad as being out of balance.

 

I'd Like a bit more performance, but not at the expense of the trans. If I prioritized my criteria, most important would be a more durable unit. 15-20 additional low to midrange whp would be icing on the cake.

[Mike07LGT]

I wouldnt go with any BNR turbo... stick with oem 46 or 52. Lots of issues with the BNR

[Max Capacity]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/idea-web-links-saved-various-parts-219238p5.html

 

see post 192. check with TA before you buy anything.

 

Your really going to want Mike and Brian's advice. They can get you most any part you need and the best tune.

[Tuning Alliance]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/idea-web-links-saved-various-parts-219238p5.html

 

see post 192. check with TA before you buy anything.

 

Your really going to want Mike and Brian's advice. They can get you most any part you need and the best tune.

 

DO NOT BUY THIS TURBO

 

It's not an IHI turbo, there are many "reproductions" online for the 500 range but they are not IHI turbo's. Not advsiable running this. New vf52's from subaru (ihi) are 1100-1300 range normally.

 

-Brian

[Max Capacity]

DO NOT BUY THIS TURBO

 

It's not an IHI turbo, there are many "reproductions" online for the 500 range but they are not IHI turbo's. Not advsiable running this. New vf52's from subaru (ihi) are 1100-1300 range normally.

 

-Brian

 

Thanks, Brian, I have added your comment to the post 192 in that thread.

[Tuning Alliance]

Thanks, Brian, I have added your comment to the post 192 in that thread.

 

Thanks,

 

Hate that these turbos are floating around. Very deceptive

 

-Brian

[OUBob]

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/idea-web-links-saved-various-parts-219238p5.html

 

see post 192. check with TA before you buy anything.

 

Your really going to want Mike and Brian's advice. They can get you most any part you need and the best tune.

 

 

Oh, h-e-double hockey sticks no, would I ever consider a Chinese turbo.

 

 

Is there something like a "tuning 101" thread, or guide somewhere? I've spent the last two nights searching threads and haven't found anything dedicated. I could use some direction on what to consider if I go with a VF52, which sounds like the best idea right now. The cost differential seems pretty negligible between the 2.

 

 

Brian, how annoying is it to have to answer noob questions via PM?

 

 

Thanks for the replies,

Bob

[Dujo]

Is there something like a "tuning 101" thread, or guide somewhere?

 

www.romraider.com

 

Enjoy!

 

 

Edit:

I could use some direction on what to consider if I go with a VF52, which sounds like the best idea right now.

 

The minimum you can get away with on a new turbo is just a tune. It is highly recommended you get a pro-tune or at least an off the shelf tune. Self-tuning isn't really for amateurs as you can destroy your engine. By all means, read up on it, learn about it, then pay a tuner for an e-tune, a road-tune, or a dyno tune.

 

However, new turbo will remain restricted by lots of other parts and you can still maximize the flow and the power and the dollars spent with more parts.

 

Downpipe is usually the bare minimum for a stage 2 car. Lots of folks go stage 2 before getting a new turbo. It's not wrong to do both at the same time. The stock exhaust will really restrict the vf52. Catback is less important to power, but a good exhaust sound is always a great mod. You should absolutely change out your stock uppipe. It has a catalytic converter in it that is a threat to your new turbo. Get a used sti stocker or an aftermarket catless uppipe. Required mod. You might want to consider an EBCS as a cheap/easy upgrade. Intercooler will be expensive, but will do a better job cooling your aircharge. You can get away with bulletproofing your existing intercooler with a kit from user BarManBean on this site to handle the increased psi if you want to skip out on a $1000 part. From there, you can get ridiculous, but that's the place to start. I would be sure this motor can be saved before throwing a lot of money at it. Good luck.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Dujo

[OUBob]

www.romraider.com

 

Enjoy!

 

 

Edit:

 

 

The minimum you can get away with on a new turbo is just a tune. It is highly recommended you get a pro-tune or at least an off the shelf tune. Self-tuning isn't really for amateurs as you can destroy your engine. By all means, read up on it, learn about it, then pay a tuner for an e-tune, a road-tune, or a dyno tune.

 

However, new turbo will remain restricted by lots of other parts and you can still maximize the flow and the power and the dollars spent with more parts.

 

Downpipe is usually the bare minimum for a stage 2 car. Lots of folks go stage 2 before getting a new turbo. It's not wrong to do both at the same time. The stock exhaust will really restrict the vf52. Catback is less important to power, but a good exhaust sound is always a great mod. You should absolutely change out your stock uppipe. It has a catalytic converter in it that is a threat to your new turbo. Get a used sti stocker or an aftermarket catless uppipe. Required mod. You might want to consider an EBCS as a cheap/easy upgrade. Intercooler will be expensive, but will do a better job cooling your aircharge. You can get away with bulletproofing your existing intercooler with a kit from user BarManBean on this site to handle the increased psi if you want to skip out on a $1000 part. From there, you can get ridiculous, but that's the place to start. I would be sure this motor can be saved before throwing a lot of money at it. Good luck.

 

Read some of CovertRussians tuning threads, definitely NOT going diy on this. I am curious what I can expect out of the VF52 not only in power, but where the band can be, what effect can tuning have on mileage (either up OR down), what factors affect each parameter...

 

I don't want to modify beyond the turbo and tune. I also don't want to give up any fuel economy unless it is absolutely necessary. I'd prefer better economy, possibly at the expense of power.

 

That's why I have so many questions about tuning. If I am gentile on the throttle, can it be tuned to achieve better than stock MPG (30+ HWY would be NICE!), yet keep the character of the car when I want to tip into it? What would it take to achieve this?

 

When I am just commuting, I try to do whatever it takes to keep under 2500 rpm when accelerating (unless I need to merge). Yea, I'm that guy who gets pulled by dump trucks at the light.

Edited December 9, 2016 by OUBob