Exhaust silencer question.....

[TSiWRX]

OK, so I'm really torn right now.....

 

I've always liked cars that sounded like cars. I'd honestly have been happy if our stock cans sounded gave our LGTs just a bit more aural distinction, like the Nissan Z. But alas, I guess that's not the "family car" image?

 

There are about a dozen ways that I could easily satisfy my need to experience the "Boxer Rumble" on Winky. But where I run into trouble is with my dear wifey. Loud, bass-rumble noises are a trigger for her migraines - and she's been a dear about this through the last 10 years, bearing with my beloved DSMs and my penchant for the obnoxiously loud, so I really, this time, would like to give her a break, too.

 

So, what I've decided on is to go with the Perrin CBE - and to give my wifey the break she deserves, to also purchase some generic "silencers" (think of the popular APEXi N1 canisters and their "silencer" end-plugs), for when she rides in Winky.

 

I know, I know, you're asking why don't I just run, say, Borla - or do the exhaust silencer/resonnator removal, or even wait for the pending Bosal....all of which are "quieter" options. Well, even then, I still fear that the system would be too loud for her, and there's really not much I can do to silence such setups (similarly, I love the twin-tip Stromung sound and looks, but I can't effectively silence that setup, either). I know from past experience that the "plug" type silencers really can drastically abate exhaust noise.

 

Here's my question:

 

I'm currently on an ECUTek custom-tune, with a third cat in-place, and with, of course, my stock cat-back.

 

I know that an aftermarket cat-back will result in minimal gains, especially un-tuned, but this is not a concern for me. I am not after additional power, I'm happy where Winky is right now - I'm just looking for guilty aural pleasure.

 

What I am concerned about is what will happen when I insert the silencer baffles.

 

- Will I lose power as compared to stock (i.e. my CURRENT setup)?

- Will I make the vehicle, conceiveabley, less driveable/smooth?

 

Any insights appreciated.

 

And no, I have not yet made the purchase.

[Gire]

Some serious decisions indeed.

 

I have run silencers on my other cars' exhausts before and noticed minimal performance variations. The decrease in DB's (as much as 6, IIRC) is much more noticable and more than makes up for any percieved losses- and I read that this is your MAIN concern- the noise factor.

 

I believe you would see a slight increase in backpressure thanks to the plug, but don't know enough about turbo-specific engines to comment on how this would affect driveability.

 

But the biggest thing in my mind is if you can handle your up-scale Legacy having, in my mind, ricey-looking silencers poking out from behind your car. Big can's stuffed with silencers belong on my old, slow Civics from years past.

 

But- A little sacrifice in order to keep the wife happy always works best in the end!

 

Good luck on your decision.

[Brack]

I did not like the sound of my resonator removed.

I think I will have Magnaflow mufflers custom installed,replacing everything from the(and including) "Y" back with 2.5".The resonator works well to keep the unwanted sounds away.

Mike

[wrx2blackGT]

what did it sound like without the resonator i have heard a few clips so far that sound pretty decent

[TSiWRX]

Geoff -

 

Thanks, bro, for your words. Indeed, my absolute concern is the noise factor, and as with your experience, mine has been, too, on N/A-engines, that the tradeoff in performance is not all that noticeable, but the difference in noise-level truly is outstanding.

 

True, I won't look good, but for the wifey, it's worth it. And besides, she's only with me for either road-trips or the occasional weekend jaunts/errands. Monday-through-Friday, I'm in Winky, and she's in her Rex. I think that the sacrifice is worth it, as long as I'm not going to be risking, say, compressor surge from the increased backpressure - which I fear may be greater than my current all-stock from the midpipe back setup.

 

Brack -

 

Thank you, too, for your reply.

 

Indeed, because of the much lower expense, I, too, thought about going the route of having a local shop fab up with Magnaflows. Several members here have excellent-sounding (at least through the 'Net) setups using the various 14XXX canisters.

 

The only thing that puts me off there is their canister profile, which I do not find to be as attractive as the Perrin.

[CRAZY KEN]

..as you! I Have Cobb's AP Stage 2 93 octane v1.15, Cobb's SS Uppipe w/ EGT bunge, Cobb's Downpipe w/ Hi-Flow Cat and Cobb's Main Power Pulley...I removed the resonator from the midpipe and replaced it with a straight-pipe. I welded Dual 2.5" chrome tips to the stock Mufflers. I was debating on what catback exhaust system would be benificial for performance gains, while still maintain a quiet tone. Stromung was the closest exhuast system that came into my mind. From the rear my car looks like a stromung dual tip exhuast system, but it's not. So I am really considering welding a pressure regulated 3" exhaust cutout right in the beginning of the midpipe...so on WOT exhaust will come down my downpipes thru my hi-flow cats and out thru the pressure regulated cutoff...bypassing the rest of my stock midpipe, y-pipe and mufflers...BUT when i'm cruising / normal throttle the cutoff will be closed and the exhaust will exit the car as normal!!!

 

 

It's just a thought Keefe (Xenonk) and I were having!!! I like it a lot!!! Just wondering what the pros and cons might be??? And if anyone has had success with it!!!

 

 

CRAZY KEN

[AWDxBOOST]

what did it sound like without the resonator i have heard a few clips so far that sound pretty decent

 

it barely even sounded different...when the pipe was dead cold it had a sort of chopper/hot rod sound, but not at all loud...maybe a hair over stock

[rc0032]

You should come to Chicago and let Winky try on the AVO cans I have for sale

[Th3Franz]

Stock resonator + AVO cans = perfect imo. But then again I'm not married, BUT the car has an exhaust note, and with the windows up it's not too loud.

[scans007]

Yeah Allen, keep me posted.......I'm intreagued for the tip silencers for long trips...Def curious to it's outcome

 

or maybe I'll buy them and tell you since I already have the perrin, but you'll have to wait until I get my car back from the body shop I've never searched for anything like this, do you have a link to the ones you were look'n at.....? If I end up do'n it, and not like'n it, I'll sell them to ya cheap

[doogdog]

I was in the same boat you were TSI... I wanted some rumble but didn't want to attract too much attention, here's what I did.

I got the Greddy SP2 catback, there was a noticeable resonance inside the cabin that was deafening between 1800 and 2800 rpm, other than that it was acceptable. My solution was to have a local muffler shop weld in a resonator (ss of course). The result is a perfect blend of rumble without being obnoxious (deep bass resonance gone or near gone inside cabin). Worth a try because the SP2 can be had for cheap online, having the resonator welded in was only $79.00 including the resonator.

Rick

[TSiWRX]

Wow - thanks for the replies, everyone!

 

rclark0032 -

 

I'd take you up on that offer, but with the AVOs, at least from what I'm hearing on sound-clips, I think that I would be taking them based on their price, and would thus be, in the pea that I called a brain, at least, always be thinking that they're "second best." Peter had a set of test-fitted ones up for-sale a bit ago, and I almost bit, but at the time, I had not yet found the necessary muffler-end silencers, which is why I recanted.

 

I truly just love the way the Perrins sound, from brother Steve's sound clips. I know that sound clips can be somewhat corrupt, but I'm more focused on the "musclecar gurgle," and listening to the undertones of scans007's hosted files, I am quite able to make this out, and that's what I'm shooting for.

 

Thanks, though, for the test-fit/hear offer. You're a good brother!

 

Steve -

 

That's a most generous offer on your end, too.

 

Actually, I have no idea when I will be making this mod (if at all, of course) - I'm willing to take my time, let things play out (and let more responses build-up here in the meantime), and to see if perhaps, by some stroke of luck, a set of dual-tipped mufflers, that are quiet, magically arrives on-scene.

 

The silencers I'm referring to can be seen here:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-Silencer-for-4-Tip-Muffler_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33636QQitemZ8006750160QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Adjustable-Tunable-Silencer-For-Exhaust-Muffler-4-Tip_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33636QQitemZ8006059537QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

If the search times-out, my parameters were to search for the words "muffler tip silencer." There's typically a decent selection of these on eBay.

 

Rick -

 

Thanks, bro, for your words.

 

Actually, I have an older-generation SP on my TSi, and being a hatchback, it also produced a bit of your noted resonnance at lower RPM. Actually, at idle, an EXTERNAL resonnance that played off the walls of my previous-residence's garage (underground, high-rise apartment building) meant that I could walk away from the vehicle, go inside, wait for the elevator, and still be able to physically FEEL the rumble of the exhaust through the concrete walls! Great way to know that my turbo-timer was working A-OK. I would hope that your cited resonnance would not translate to the LGT sedan, and your caution to include a resonnator would definitely make sense, even with the sedan body-style.

 

I was very happy with the GReddy on my TSi, but as you can well imagine, the resonnance down low, as well as its still somewhat loud growl at-speed, both weren't favorites with my wife. I think that even if I went this route, I'd still need to go with a set of silencers.

 

KRAZY KEN -

 

That actually might be where I might end-up.

 

I really, really like the looks of a dual-tip (i.e. quad, total) setup, and this shouldn't be too much, done at a local muffler shop.

 

My good muscle-car buddy here at work, along with his father, have restored many classic American cars and thus have a full workshop - with Crucial's high-flow mid-pipe pending, perhaps I should just opt for an e-cutout, placed post-cat into the Crucial piping, as a replacement for my stock midpipe.

[CRAZY KEN]

...if you get it done before me, let me know how it goes...and whos e-cutoff you'll be going with! Pics too...and will you be aiming the outlet straight down to the ground or off to the left or right!

 

 

CRAZY KEN

[al-gorithm]

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=319256&postcount=200

 

STi UP, Flow Shorty DP, resonator removed (clamped, not welded), stock exhaust with custom dual rolled, angled, staggered tips.

 

Sound in-cabin: more low end but due to our overdampening in the cabin, tough to here sometimes but definelty feel more vibration.

Sound outside: along the lines of a G35 but with the boxer rumble/backfire. There is some tinny noise with the backfiring which I would think would be damped if the resonator was left in.

 

Ultimately I would like 3" to the Y which would be 2.5" and use the stock mufflers. I would get the flow but keep the sound down. I know there is the AVO midpipe and I believe that Perrin is making one too. I think I would go down this route as I am afraid of not being able to talk to anyone in my car. I would put a resonator in there too to get rid of the slight raspiness when backfiring.

 

Which gets me wondering how efficient would a HFC be compared to the stock for emissions purposes? For now, swapping the DP would be done if I have to do a sniffer test but I would like to avoid the work. I know, OT, but something to be considered too.

 

Someone release a mid pipe PLEASE!!!

[johnny_m]

Ok then, here is a question. I've read:

 

-Stock exhaust is fine. Just go with an UP/DP and leave the rest alone. Money spent for CBE would be just for rumble, not performance gains. Spend the money elsewhere.

 

-Stock exhaust is fine without the resonator. Resonator eats up power but without it, you get the boxer backfire.

 

A buddy of mine has an STi. He went UP/DP and stock exhaust. Good power. Removed resonator. Better power (noticable). Finished out the exhaust with a stromung setup. Even more power. I can't imagine that from the factory, LGT's are better breathers than an STi.

 

What is the consensus here? Full stock CBE? Stock with no resonator? Full aftermarket CBE? I'm starting to get confused.

[V8 Convert]

Ok then, here is a question. I've read:

 

-Stock exhaust is fine. Just go with an UP/DP and leave the rest alone. Money spent for CBE would be just for rumble, not performance gains. Spend the money elsewhere.

 

-Stock exhaust is fine without the resonator. Resonator eats up power but without it, you get the boxer backfire.

 

A buddy of mine has an STi. He went UP/DP and stock exhaust. Good power. Removed resonator. Better power (noticable). Finished out the exhaust with a stromung setup. Even more power. I can't imagine that from the factory, LGT's are better breathers than an STi.

 

What is the consensus here? Full stock CBE? Stock with no resonator? Full aftermarket CBE? I'm starting to get confused.

 

 

My thoughts exactly. I plan on doing the DP/UP, but after that I get confused. Not really sure how much performance can be gained from a CBE. I am thinking of just going with an axle back for sound at this point. My wife is pretty good about these things so I can go a little loud . Can anybody tell me if this is a good idea, or is the CBE really worth the money?

[TSiWRX]

^ I think that herein lies the current problem - there really is no more "consensus" on the gains to be had with TBE vs CBE vs stock w/DP w/ or w/o HFC.....

 

I used to think that there was a consensus on this, but after Prodrive's muffler cans' dyno, I'm no longer sure about *anything*.

[rodan]

Something worth mentioning: I have a custom catback, 3" w/ resonator into dual 2.5" with Spintech mufflers and custom quad tips. The sound was perfect with the stock UP/DP. I added an STI UP and Cobb catted DP, and the noise level increased to the point that it's too loud. I am considering different alteratives at this point, but haven't made any decisions....

[johnny_m]

^ I think that herein lies the current problem - there really is no more "consensus" on the gains to be had with TBE vs CBE vs stock w/DP w/ or w/o HFC.....

 

I used to think that there was a consensus on this, but after Prodrive's muffler cans' dyno, I'm no longer sure about *anything*.

 

What was the Prodrive's muffler cans' dyno? I missed that one.

[al-gorithm]

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=325625&postcount=159

[johnny_m]

Thanks man! I will give it a look-see!

[TSiWRX]

Thanks for the spot, al-gorithm.

 

For me, power issues be damned. I'm just in this one for the pure aural guilty-pleasure.

 

As long as I don't *hurt*Winky from using the silencers - i.e. too much backpressure , more than "stock" - I'll be more than happy.

[johnny_m]

Hmmm, doesn't look like it frees up any real power. I didn't read through the thread but did Prodrive say it was a CBE? Mufflers only? Even if it was mufflers only, I'm not sure they be worth the cost to me (even if they are only a couple of hundred bucks). CBE would even be less attractive. Right now, I would only put up with the noise if they gave me real power to the pavement. Not a slam against Prodrive, I really like their stuff. I just wouldn't be able to justify the cost.