Official Firearm Thread V3

[Sparkey]

Yeah i’ll look things over occasionally for other states thru the NRA website.

 

With that being said and what I know now, if states implemented an FID where you needed a thorough background check like New Jersey, then were allowed to own whatever you wanted unconditionally, would you? This includes anything that requires a class 3 stamp.

 

Ive noticed the NRA site isnt 100% accurate and slow to update. I reference it but states i visit i will check the nexus website and call local PD to clarify laws.

 

Honestly I believe everyone has a right to defend themselves, and shouldnt have to ask.

 

That aside, Ive been considering getting my FFL/SOT. So I would likely be for that. Id much rather have a one time fee/wait rather then a wait and tax each item. Id also be for a national ccw license.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Sparkey

[THE RZA]

Ive noticed the NRA site isnt 100% accurate and slow to update. I reference it but states i visit i will check the nexus website and call local PD to clarify laws.

 

Honestly I believe everyone has a right to defend themselves, and shouldnt have to ask.

 

That aside, Ive been considering getting my FFL/SOT. So I would likely be for that. Id much rather have a one time fee/wait rather then a wait and tax each item. Id also be for a national ccw license.

 

I don't disagree with anything you are saying, but I also don't think we are asking for permission in my state to own a gun, as long as they do their due diligence on their end and no red flags pop up, you're good to go.

 

these are the guidelines:

 

The applicant waives all rights of confidentiality relating to institutional confinement and must supply all necessary information on any mental or psychiatric treatment. The application must contain as references two reputable citizens personally acquainted with the applicant.

 

No conditions or requirements can be added to the form or content of the application, or required by the licensing authority for the issuance of a Permit to Purchase or FID, other than those that are specifically set forth in the statute.

 

No person of good character and good repute who is not subject to any of the disabilities can be denied a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card. No Permit to Purchase or FID will be issued to any:

 

Person who has been convicted of a crime.

-Drug dependent person, or person who is confined for a mental disorder to a hospital, mental institution or sanitarium, or to a habitual drunkard.

-Person who suffers from a physical defect or disease which would make it unsafe for him to handle firearms, to any person who has ever been confined for a mental disorder, or to any alcoholic unless any of the foregoing persons produce a certificate from a New Jersey licensed medical doctor or psychiatrist, or other satisfactory proof, that the applicant is no longer suffering from that particular disability in such a manner that would interfere with or handicap him in the handling of firearms.

-Person who knowingly falsifies any information on the application forms.

-Person under 18.

-Person where the issuance would not be in the interest of the public health, safety, or welfare.

-Person under the age of 21, in the case of a handgun or pistol.

 

The bigger problem here is that since this system is already in place, the democrats in Trenton know they have control and push even further and redundant gun laws down our throats that do infringe upon our rights. To me I feel like, we've vetted ourselves legally in this state, we have proven that we're not criminals or psychopaths, you have all the information you need to know about us, why the **** can we not carry or furnish our weapons the way we want?

 

I guess I'm making too much sense, but I do agree with everyone who does disagree with me that, if this became a thing nationally, democrats will just keep trying to push the envelope further on what they can do to gun owners. It does amaze me though that they lump in gangland gun violence with illegally acquired and used guns with legal gun owners. But when a mass shooting occurs once a year with a legal gun, when the pro-gun people talk about gang land murders, they don't care about them.

[BDII]

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[chowser51]

Dealer to dealer or distributor to dealer transfer of nfa items should transfer on a form 3. That should not be $200. If I buy an NFA item from the store or have my dealer order it, it’s just $200 for the tax stamp.

 

Not sure if your dealer charges any fees. I have bought suppressors from two different gun stores in my area and there was no additional fee. My regular FFL is a retired coworker who never charges me for transfers.

[Sparkey]

Dealer to dealer or distributor to dealer transfer of nfa items should transfer on a form 3. That should not be $200. If I buy an NFA item from the store or have my dealer order it, it’s just $200 for the tax stamp.

 

Not sure if your dealer charges any fees. I have bought suppressors from two different gun stores in my area and there was no additional fee. My regular FFL is a retired coworker who never charges me for transfers.

 

Individual to dealer, then dealer to individual - sorry i wasnt clear on that. Like i said, trying to simplify it but also put as much out there as possible. Thats not to say who has to cover the fees, just that anytime its transfered to or from an individual, a tax stamp must be purchased.

 

We have a state requirement for the fees.

[Sparkey]

I don't disagree with anything you are saying, but I also don't think we are asking for permission in my state to own a gun, as long as they do their due diligence on their end and no red flags pop up, you're good to go.

 

these are the guidelines:

 

 

 

The bigger problem here is that since this system is already in place, the democrats in Trenton know they have control and push even further and redundant gun laws down our throats that do infringe upon our rights. To me I feel like, we've vetted ourselves legally in this state, we have proven that we're not criminals or psychopaths, you have all the information you need to know about us, why the **** can we not carry or furnish our weapons the way we want?

 

I guess I'm making too much sense, but I do agree with everyone who does disagree with me that, if this became a thing nationally, democrats will just keep trying to push the envelope further on what they can do to gun owners. It does amaze me though that they lump in gangland gun violence with illegally acquired and used guns with legal gun owners. But when a mass shooting occurs once a year with a legal gun, when the pro-gun people talk about gang land murders, they don't care about them.

 

Not trying to be a jerk, but do you believe in our natural rights? Do you believe in the constitution as it was written? Have you read any of the federalist papers? What does shall not infringe mean to you? This also applies to search and seizures and 'innocent until proven guilty'. If we shouldnt be allowed to freely buy guns - even with it explicitly stated in the constitution - what rights do we have? You may not call it asking, but if they can deny me, then im asking.

 

Like i said, theyve gotten in your head. I too used to think there was no need for too many guns, or too much ammo, and its not a bad thing to do background checks - but then i got into guns. I realized the arbitrary laws that have done nothing to stop criminals, but HAVE ended up gettings citizens killed while having to ask to use their rights. Ive known more people who have been denied for no reason and now have to fight to reverse it. It can be months before youre cleared agin. I also dont think its a once and done thing where you get a non violent felony, but lose your right to own a gun. Its no coincidence most shootings happen in a gun free zone, so why would we think making more places or people gun free zones do any good?

 

You keep saying I have to prove this or that... and thats not how America was built or intended to be. Or do you think Ameica is wrong and should scrap the bill of rights and constitution? I think thats where we need to start the conversation as that explains a lot.

 

Its funny that you say the bigger problem is its already in place. Well, at least IMO, unless they change or remove the second amendment, theyre wrong and breaking their oath to uphold the constitution.

[THE RZA]

When the constitution was written, there was also no propper vetting to join the Military, you simply just said I want to join, sign the contract and you were in. It's far from that simple now. A lot of that is because you are entrusted with handling weapons and national security.

 

Why don't I have a problem with the process in my state? Because I don't know any different and it's an easier but not too different from the process I had to do to join the Military. It makes sense because there was absolute control over your weapons in the Military as well. They don't just give you an M16, ammo and be careful with it.

 

Again, nothing about having an FID says I can't buy a gun.

[THE RZA]

Here’s my slave card:

 

 

What does it prove? That i’m not a criminal or mentally ill and fit to own a gun. Will this stop criminals from getting them on the black market? No, but that’s not who politicians are attacking, they’re attacking legal gun owners.

[Sparkey]

Here’s my slave card:

 

 

What does it prove? That i’m not a criminal or mentally ill and fit to own a gun. Will this stop criminals from getting them on the black market? No, but that’s not who politicians are attacking, they’re attacking legal gun owners.

 

It does not prove any of that. Thats the security theater they present that youve come to believe. That paper just proves youre willing to jump through their hoops for the rights youve been given. Also do you have to contiinually check up on it? In the same way you feel the intent or use of 2A has changed, your mental stability and criminal intent could change by the hour

 

What exactly do you propose the politicians do then? In my eyes they can only attack legal gun owners...

Edited January 28, 2018 by Sparkey

[Sparkey]

When the constitution was written, there was also no propper vetting to join the Military, you simply just said I want to join, sign the contract and you were in. It's far from that simple now. A lot of that is because you are entrusted with handling weapons and national security.

 

Why don't I have a problem with the process in my state? Because I don't know any different and it's an easier but not too different from the process I had to do to join the Military. It makes sense because there was absolute control over your weapons in the Military as well. They don't just give you an M16, ammo and be careful with it.

 

Again, nothing about having an FID says I can't buy a gun.

 

The federalist papers and everything that explains further the intent and reasoning behind the second amendmemt disagrees with you. None of this was about the military, its about the militia which are the individuals not in the military who are of a certain age who are not in the military. It was to ensure the people have the same power as the government so there could be checks and balances as well as of the military was occupied the people could still fight if needed.

 

You sound like how i used to be. I really wish there was a way to only prevent criminals from using guns in a bad way - but that would mean we wouldnt have much of a need to protect ourselves would we? And if preventing that criminal from getting or using a gun means one legal citizen lost their rights or was given a wait period, then its not acceptable.

 

Why do you not want criminals to have guns? Is it to save lives? Is i so they dont comit crime? Whats thr plan for determining who is going to do that considering the number of people who have been looked into, yet still go on to comit crimes? Where do we draw the line of rights being muffled in the name of safety?

[THE RZA]

It's not that we don't want criminals to have guns, because that's inevitable and taking guns away all together is only going to make them more powerful.

 

It's keeping high functioning but mentally ill people from getting guns legally, that's what politicians and anti-gunners are attacking, not criminals.

 

Also do you have to contiinually check up on it? In the same way you feel the intent or use of 2A has changed, your mental stability and criminal intent could change by the hour

 

For a carry permit? yes but it's nearly impossible to get one in this state. For an FID? no. Only if you move and you have to do a change of address, which is going through the whole process again, except you don't need to get re-fingerprinted you just have to pay $20 to authorize our state police to look up our info in their data base again for the application and review it again.

 

What's my solution? It's truly a pipe dream but it would be every state instills a FID process where they do a thorough screening checking your health records, federal agency lists etc., then once you have it, you can buy guns and furnish them unconditionally, that includes all things involving a class 3 stamp and be allowed to carry. Also require training as part of that process, which can give jobs to a lot of unemployed veterans that have extensive weapons handling and training experience to then train average joe how to handle and fire a gun. I've seen enough idiots at the range that don't know what they're doing with a gun and don't feel compelled to take a course voluntarily.

 

This of course, would need bi-partisan agreement that they won't push laws any further.

 

Again it's not the criminals owning guns that gun owners are being attacked for, it's the 1 in 5000 that buy one legally & do something stupid. I'm not disagreeing with you one bit, I think we should own guns freely and unconditionally, but the problem is when some psycho goes out and buys a gun legally, shoots up a public place, Pro-Gun people don't have much of a leg to stand on without any insurance measures.

Edited January 28, 2018 by THE RZA

[Sparkey]

It's not that we don't want criminals to have guns, because that's inevitable and taking guns away all together is only going to make them more powerful.

 

It's keeping high functioning but mentally ill people from getting guns legally, that's what politicians and anti-gunners are attacking, not criminals.

 

 

 

For a carry permit? yes but it's nearly impossible to get one in this state. For an FID? no. Only if you move and you have to do a change of address, which is going through the whole process again, except you don't need to get re-fingerprinted you just have to pay $20 to authorize our state police to look up our info in their data base again for the application and review it again.

 

What's my solution? It's truly a pipe dream but it would be every state instills a FID process where they do a thorough screening checking your health records, federal agency lists etc., then once you have it, you can buy guns and furnish them unconditionally, that includes all things involving a class 3 stamp and be allowed to carry. Also require training as part of that process, which can give jobs to a lot of unemployed veterans that have extensive weapons handling and training experience to then train average joe how to handle and fire a gun. I've seen enough idiots at the range that don't know what they're doing with a gun and don't feel compelled to take a course voluntarily.

 

This of course, would need bi-partisan agreement that they won't push laws any further.

 

Again it's not the criminals owning guns that gun owners are being attacked for, it's the 1 in 5000 that buy one legally & do something stupid. I'm not disagreeing with you one bit, I think we should own guns freely and unconditionally, but the problem is when some psycho goes out and buys a gun legally, shoots up a public place, Pro-Gun people don't have much of a leg to stand on without any insurance measures.

 

Whats mentally ill? The problem with your idea seems to be it has no defining lines, or gets 'legal citizens' caught up. Can a person be found no longer mentally ill? What about the mental illness caused by military? People can serve and die for their rights to be stripped once found to have PTSD? Is there anyone these days whos not a little sick in the head?

 

So you go through the process once, but then something happens and you become mental and kill people. Does everyone lose their license? Do we now go to yearly checkups? I assume youre assuming everyone has a regular doctor and gets regular checkups... but how in depth to mental health does that go? Just like training if youre not keeping on top of it, why bother?

 

Whos going to pay all those trainers? More taxes? What if they cant get enough trainers to keep with demand? Is this going to be free? Because i dont remember 2A saying you can have your rights if you jump any hoops. I also shouldnt have to figure our how or when i can get in a class to be provided my rights. I feel if we had the rights as they should be, and more people were less ignorant and afraid of guns, more people would have them and seek training. But those on the fense would rather look a certain way to the public then seek training and education about guns. Ive talkes to a few people who purchased guns but due to the stigma keep them locked up and dobt get training

 

Why is it only guns that people feel this way about? Sure i have to have a license and insurance to legally drive, but more people daily are put in danger, injured, and killed by cars that require nothing for me to go buy one off craigslist. Theres also no mental capabilities tests and many handicapped and unstable people drive. So we're going to ignore a majority of a problem to solve a minority? Because guns are somehow more scary?

 

Sorry, you dont seem to be giving many answers, just more questions and more people losing rights arbitrarilly. And i disagree about what people/politicians want. I think theres three camps - those who want 2A as it was written and intended. Those in the middle who want to keep guns but out of the hands of those who will use them for harm bit havent learned thats nearly impossible. And then the left, the ignorant, and politicians want guns eraticated from public use.

 

Unlike politicians, go in depth. Explain to me what defines mental health, once someones found ill, are they forever ill? Is it any illness, or just some? But really if you agree with me... why arent you agreeing with me? Lol Youre siding with them and it doesnt even seem youre sure why. Every inch you give them is a right taken amd only leads to them taking more...

 

Also half of my display is in german... this ia weird.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Sparkey

[THE RZA]

What is mentally ill? You know what Mentally ill is. In the state of New Jersey, when someone is diagnosed with a mental illness, said doctors are required to report this to the authorities so they can look up if you are a FID holder or not already. If not, when you apply for one you are waiving confidentiality for them to check your medical history.

 

You can stay in that camp all you want, but you and anyone else in that camp is losing ground fast to anti-gun people. It’s those in the middle camp that have the power to talk to both sides to keep both sides satisfied (i didn’t say happy, I said satisfied)

 

What you consider is a win for the left, is what I consider a win for the Right in my state if laws changed to what my proposal is.

 

Who would going pay for those instructors? You the firearm owner, just like how you pay out of pocket for behind the wheel driving classes so you can get your state issued drivers license so you can drive.

 

If it was a god given right to bear arms you would be given a gun & ammo by the government. Your right is that no one will take your guns from you for no reason at all. Not once did I say anything about taking your guns away.

 

Maybe all that legal pot has blurred your judgement call my idea stupid, but my state isn’t home to the biggest school shooting in history, but yours was. Was that ok because it was their right?

[THE RZA]

I’m not going to continue this argument in this thread, if you want to, join the PA & talking to me in the gun control thread, if we want gun culture to change in this country, we need a republican majority house for the next 40 years to reverse the democratic majority for the past 40 which made everything anti gun in this country.

 

 

Back on the topic of firearms, I ordered a trijicon MRO yesterday, excited to try it and hopefully end my personal search for the best red dot.

[TSiWRX]

^ You did ask for a S/N verification on the unit you bought, right? or did the vendor guaranty it to be higher than ~89,000?

 

The search for the best red-dot never ends. There's always something better just over the horizon....just like anything else gear-related!

Edited January 29, 2018 by TSi+WRX

[THE RZA]

eh, I currently run an EOTech XPS2-0 which I've been happy with but lately I've been questioning it with my rifle. My old rifle (Colt LE6920 M4) had a fixed front sight post and the EO tech worked with that really well, my LWRC has flip ups and it doesn't give me the best viewing, not sure if the flip up FSP is thinner than what was on the colt, or it could just be a really shitty replacement battery that I used for the EOTech recently.

 

I ordered the MRO because LWRC recommends it and sells it for their rifles, I'm going to give it a try and see which one works best for me, and sell the other one. The MRO looks a lot less bulky on the rifle than the EOTech does, but I don't care about that, I'm more concerned about what functions best for my shooting.

 

When I get my AR10 I'm planning to run a scope on that not a red dot. I don't really consider myself a gear nerd. I have a P226 for home defense, an AK47 & AR15 for range fun, getting a concealed carry pistol for when reciprocity goes through, want an AR10 also for range fun, want a Remington 870 to trap shoot with as well because there's a lot more shotgun ranges around me to shoot at than there rifle ranges. My AK has no accessories attached to it, and other than a Sling, handstop and optic, My AR doesn't have any other attachments and I don't plan to.

Edited January 29, 2018 by THE RZA

[TSiWRX]

eh, I currently run an EOTech XPS2-0 which I've been happy with but lately I've been questioning it with my rifle. My old rifle (Colt LE6920 M4) had a fixed front sight post and the EO tech worked with that really well, my LWRC has flip ups and it doesn't give me the best viewing, not sure if the flip up FSP is thinner than what was on the colt, or it could just be a really shitty replacement battery that I used for the EOTech recently.

 

I'm not sure I understand....what do you mean by "doesn't give [you] the best viewing?"

 

You mean you like having the FSP inside the objective, for reference?

 

I ordered the MRO because LWRC recommends it and sells it for their rifles, I'm going to give it a try and see which one works best for me, and sell the other one.

Wonder why they would recommend any sight over another.

 

The MRO looks a lot less bulky on the rifle than the EOTech does, but I don't care about that, I'm more concerned about what functions best for my shooting.

Train your eyes to "blow through" the objective, and it won't matter.

 

Objectively speaking, the MRO's weight - or lack thereof - versus the XPS2-0 is probably something that you will notice, particularly if you invest in a good mount.

 

I don't really consider myself a gear nerd.

You're on a car forum discussing guns. Own it and be proud of it.

 

 

When I get my AR10 I'm planning to run a scope on that not a red dot.... an AK47 & AR15 for range fun.....

 

Since your rifles are for range-fun only, have you thought about a LPVO? Instead of two or three mid-priced optics plus their mounts (and remember, an optic is no good if its mount is crap), invest in one high-end optic and mount, and shift them between the guns.

 

Modern 1-4, 1-6, or even 1-8 offer amazing versatility, and the good ones are incredibly durable and reliable: almost a "one ring to rule them all" kind of deal....

 

 

At the Alliance PD Training facility this past year, what I heard most from fellow students as well as the instructional cadre was that for an all-round carbine, the LPVO is currently king - it may give up just a little in terms of absolute speed in CQB (this is with the students pressure-cooking and proving it to themselves, as the facility has a 8000+ sq. ft., 360-degree shoot house in which both live-fire as well as sim/UTM) and demand a compromise in terms of weight/handling, but today, it's very close to being a true one-size-fits-all tool.

Edited January 29, 2018 by TSi+WRX

[THE RZA]

I'm not sure I understand....what do you mean by "doesn't give [you] the best viewing?"

 

You mean you like having the FSP inside the objective, for reference?

 

 

I have difficulty getting a good focus and I've narrowed it down to 3 possibilies:

 

1) It could be a difference in equipment between rifles. My old Colt had a fixed A-frame FSP and my LWRC has their own brand buis. With my colt, the EOTech worked amazing, I zero in my rear sight and lollipop the dot to work with that zero, on that rifle it was literally just point and shoot and i didn't miss my target, groupings were always solid as well. I'm not sure if LWRC's use a skinnier FSP than what a traditional one would be, we'll see.

 

2)Battery, I recently replaced the original battery in the EOTech with an energizer one I bought at Target, could just be a bad battery and it's not generating a bold enough hologram, it's very light and I get a lot of washout in bright atmospheres.

 

3) my vision, in September I had lasik done, I now have 15/20 vision and my astigmatisms were fixed during the procedure as well, I didn't start shooting again until December. Prior I always wore glasses with astigmatism correcting lenses, but I don't think that necessarily is the issue because in December I still had my old rifle and the original EOTech battery and everything was fine, I didn't get the LWRC until earlier this month. I dont have an issue shooting iron sights with my AK, and I don't have that issue shooting iron sights with my pistol either.

 

The MRO is a true red dot and the EOTech is holographic, so we'll see which one works better for me, which ever one does I'll keep and sell the other. If it's the EOTech I'll buy their brand battery either from them or from places that sell their product

 

 

Wonder why they would recommend any sight over another.

 

probably whomever they have a contract with, in 2015 & 2016 they had a deal with Aimpoint where when you bought a rifle, you got a free Aimpoint pro via rebate. 2017 they did a rebate with Trijicon to get the MRO with a QD mount for $300 off. Nothing against Aimpoint but Trijicon is tried and true and probably when the MRO came out they realized for most people buying their rifles, the MRO is better suited than the aimpoint. Sadly I ordered my rifle 4 days after the Rebate ended for $300 off the MRO with mount, but I got it with the same mount for $445 on Ebay so I can't complain.

 

 

 

Since your rifles are for range-fun only, have you thought about a LPVO? Instead of two or three mid-priced optics plus their mounts (and remember, an optic is no good if its mount is crap), invest in one high-end optic and mount, and shift them between the guns.

 

Modern 1-4, 1-6, or even 1-8 offer amazing versatility, and the good ones are incredibly durable and reliable: almost a "one ring to rule them all" kind of deal....

 

 

At the Alliance PD Training facility this past year, what I heard most from fellow students as well as the instructional cadre was that for an all-round carbine, the LPVO is currently king - it may give up just a little in terms of absolute speed in CQB (this is with the students pressure-cooking and proving it to themselves, as the facility has a 8000+ sq. ft., 360-degree shoot house in which both live-fire as well as sim/UTM) and demand a compromise in terms of weight/handling, but today, it's very close to being a true one-size-fits-all tool.

 

for my AR15 I like the iron sight/red dot combo, furthest distance I shoot with it is 500 yards and I have no issue, but for the AR and AK it is all mostly close quarters and short distance shooting. I'm starting to get back in to competitive shooting, there are tactical shooting comps around here and that's what I use those 2 rifles for.

 

AR10 will be for more 300-1000 yard distances, I'm looking at getting a Leupold Vx-2-3-9x40MM for that application, what would you suggest different from that?

[TSiWRX]

I have difficulty getting a good focus and I've narrowed it down to 3 possibilies:

 

1) It could be a difference in equipment between rifles. My old Colt had a fixed A-frame FSP and my LWRC has their own brand buis. With my colt, the EOTech worked amazing, I zero in my rear sight and lollipop the dot to work with that zero, on that rifle it was literally just point and shoot and i didn't miss my target, groupings were always solid as well. I'm not sure if LWRC's use a skinnier FSP than what a traditional one would be, we'll see.

 

With what you are describing above with your Colt, are you shooting the dot, or are you shooting the irons?

 

Or are you shooting the dot via cowitnessing the irons?

 

2)Battery, I recently replaced the original battery in the EOTech with an energizer one I bought at Target, could just be a bad battery and it's not generating a bold enough hologram, it's very light and I get a lot of washout in bright atmospheres.

 

Like ammo, batteries are the lifeblood of any electronic optic. It certainly could be a problem battery, but lithium primaries typically (even more the case for domestics) do not see many issues (this is from the perspective of a flashlight collector/user - up until just last year, I literally bought one to two cases of 100 per year, and burned through them at that rate ). Unfortunately, EOTechs do see a disproportionate amount of electrical issues under hard use, so that is always a concern...I'd switch a battery just because it's easy to do as primary troubleshooting.

 

3) my vision, in September I had lasik done, I now have 15/20 vision and my astigmatisms were fixed during the procedure as well, I didn't start shooting again until December. Prior I always wore glasses with astigmatism correcting lenses, but I don't think that necessarily is the issue because in December I still had my old rifle and the original EOTech battery and everything was fine, I didn't get the LWRC until earlier this month. I dont have an issue shooting iron sights with my AK, and I don't have that issue shooting iron sights with my pistol either.

 

Astigmatism should not come into pay with irons. I have astigmatism, too (-1.00/-1.25).

 

It's interesting that you did not have an issue before, but you do, now, after corrective surgery. If you're shooting the dot via the irons, the cowitness of the ironsights should eliminate any astigmatism-related problems in terms of the dot, too.

 

You're right, I'm really not sure exactly what's up, and can only think of the dot intensity as a potential - but I'm not sure if that may be a red herring. Typically, the lower the dot intensity, the better (provided that one can still make out the dot, of-course! ), even for folks with perfect eyesight, as it minimizes "blooming."

 

What, exactly, is happening with the EOTech on your new gun that's causing you to miss?

 

And exactly to what degree are we talking about, when we're talking about "misses" versus hitting "exactly" where we're aiming? What's the metric? Group size at distance. What kind of time pressure if-any, are you under, in completing this metric?

 

The MRO is a true red dot and the EOTech is holographic, so we'll see which one works better for me, which ever one does I'll keep and sell the other. If it's the EOTech I'll buy their brand battery either from them or from places that sell their product

 

I was under the impression that EOTechs shipped with Panasonic CR123s?

 

There's nothing special about Panasonic CR123s.

 

probably whomever they have a contract with, in 2015 & 2016 they had a deal with Aimpoint where when you bought a rifle, you got a free Aimpoint pro via rebate. 2017 they did a rebate with Trijicon to get the MRO with a QD mount for $300 off.

 

A contract shouldn't be equated to a "recommendation." Those are two very different things. And yes, their previous Aimpoint promotion is what led me to ask that question.

 

Nothing against Aimpoint but Trijicon is tried and true and probably when the MRO came out they realized for most people buying their rifles, the MRO is better suited than the aimpoint.

 

Actually, both Aimpoint and Trijicon are very highly thought of in the industry - there's nothing to suggest "nothing against" either brand, and no, there is no reason why the MRO may be any better or worse suited for any particular end-user versus its Aimpoint counterparts. You're reading way too much into LWRC's promotion, which is just that, a promotion.

 

Things are really looking good for the MRO - it took off in a way the SRS never did - but make no mistake, it's a considerably newer optic in this category, and even today, it's no more "tried and true" than comparable counterparts from Aimpoint, which has just as much "battle lineage."

 

I don't want you to think that I'm saying anything negative about the MRO because I'm a jealous non-owner - here's mine:

 

https://imgur.com/hb55xWj

 

It's my daughter's gun, but that's my optic (it's actually a backup optic that I take with me to classes, the Scalarworks mount is nicely repeatable, at least at the 100 and in).

 

Sadly I ordered my rifle 4 days after the Rebate ended for $300 off the MRO with mount, but I got it with the same mount for $445 on Ebay so I can't complain.

 

Be absolutely sure of your eBay seller...there's a lot of fakes and off-contract items going around. Whether you end up with a 89,000+ S/N and have clearer glass with less distortion may not matter that much for a casual shooter (and in all honesty, not everyone notices the issue - I cannot), but a product that's not going to be covered by warranty, that costs that much, well, that's just no good.

 

for my AR15 I like the iron sight/red dot combo, furthest distance I shoot with it is 500 yards and I have no issue, but for the AR and AK it is all mostly close quarters and short distance shooting. I'm starting to get back in to competitive shooting, there are tactical shooting comps around here and that's what I use those 2 rifles for.

 

AR10 will be for more 300-1000 yard distances, I'm looking at getting a Leupold Vx-2-3-9x40MM for that application, what would you suggest different from that?

 

Ah, alas, now you're stepping out of my lane. With that 1K-yard need, I will have to bow out of that end of the discussion: you're going to want something with a bit more power than a 1-x LPVO. I am sure the other members here will be much better able to guide you in this selection.

[THE RZA]

I do shoot co-witness, it’s tough to explain, I’m not missing targets, it just takes longer to snap in and aim a good shot with the dot displaying the way it is. I’ll buy more batteries for the EOTech and see if that makes a difference. It also gives me more trouble shooting in brighter applications like say an indoor range with bright lights or a sunny day. I went shooting on saturday and was hitting steel from 100 yards with no problem, couldn’t get an idea for my grouping because it was the club’s steel and it looked like swiss cheese. But here’s some comparisons:

 

Here’s from back over the summer, old rifle, dim indoor range 25 yards, standing:

 

 

This was 4 weeks ago, first time shooting the new rifle and with the EOTech, 25 yards indoor standing, same range that is dimly lit:

 

 

This was 2 weeks ago, bright indoor range, 40 yards standing

 

 

Need I mind you any of these times I went shooting, I wasn’t trying to do anything more than blow off steam and **** off for an hour, but you can see from my old rifle my shots were a lot tighter and gave me some instant gratification

 

My other thought is, post lasik i’ve become more sensitive to light, so in bright applications the EOTech may not suit my needs anymore, where as the MRO is tinted and I also ordered the anti-glare cap too. All sounds like excuses for shitty shooting, but I was a Marine for 6 years, I know I’m better than this.

 

FYI the dealer i bought the mro from on ebay is a reputable arms dealer from Pittsburgh with 100% positive feedback. It does come with 2 cheap mounts but i’ll probably buy a better one.

Edited January 30, 2018 by THE RZA

[THE RZA]

W

 

Ah, alas, now you're stepping out of my lane. With that 1K-yard need, I will have to bow out of that end of the discussion: you're going to want something with a bit more power than a 1-x LPVO. I am sure the other members here will be much better able to guide you in this selection.

 

To be clear i won't be shooting 1000 yards very often. I actually don't shoot more than 300 yards that often. The range/club I belong to has a 100 yard range with steelies & you can bring your own paper/objects to shoot as well & they have a tactical range as well. I've gone to some of the local gun forum meets at other clubs, I know one of them has a 300, 500 & 800 yard range at it, so that's where I'd want to shoot the .308 is on their 800 yard range. Occasionally go out of state as well to places with long ranges, but for the most part when I go to places other than my own range, it's to fire 3-500 yards, but one of the perks to having a .308 is being able to shoot with more precision on longer targets than I would with my 5.56

[TSiWRX]

Trying to quote your first post, the system isn't letting it register due to The Glitch. I'll just have to do it manually.....

 

I do shoot co-witness, it’s tough to explain, I’m not missing targets, it just takes longer to snap in and aim a good shot with the dot displaying the way it is.

 

Give this a try:

 

After you have checked zero, I want you to flip down your rear sight and shoot just using the dot: anywhere the dot projects, regardless of your eye position or cheek (given a reasonable accuracy/precision expectation, that is), just shoot when the dot is on-target.

 

Hold yourself to a standard - go for the ubiquitous NRA B8 or B8 Repair-Center ( https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/printable-b8-repair-center-target.2255/ ), and try to keep it all in the black at the 25.

 

With what you are doing now, shooting only when the sights are cowitnessed, you're essentially using only the irons and letting that dot be some kind of highlight of the front post - kinda like if you were shooting a pistol, and instead of aligning the bodies of the sights (what you are supposed to be doing), you were aligning the dots or somehow focusing only on the front "dot" marking (instead of the actual front post body).

 

The idea of a non-magnified RDS (here to include all types of such sights, "reflex," holographic, and even etched reticle) is that you gain speed by not having to precisely align the multiple planes necessary with a traditional front/rear ironsight picture:

 

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/1_3_cowitness_or_absolute_cowitness_/18-542595/

 

^ Look at the "What about my cheek weld" sub-section.

 

Re-zero your Colt with your irons. Either turn the dot off or remove it completely.

 

Then flip the rear out of the way, and zero the dot. Be absolutely sure you are obtaining that same consistent cheek weld and properly centering your eye with respect to the reticle (and take the time to insure that the reticle is centered within the objective, too).

 

Once you've achieved zero with the RDS, when you flip up that rear sight, if you did it right, you'll cowitness immediately, with no need for adjustment.

 

If you find that you're chasing adjustments when you flip up that rear - i.e. all of a sudden the dot is now no longer zeroed as you cowitness through the rear aperture to the front post and properly align them - then, more than likely you went awry when zeroing the dot. Turn the dot off, confirm zero of your irons, and then rinse and repeat the zeroing of the dot.

 

Yes, zeroing the irons and then just cranking that dot adjustment so the dot sits on the front post will get the job done - but it will have some margin for error.

 

Once you've achieved mechanical zero, flip down the rear sight and use only the dot. Visually "blow through" the dot, using target-focus (even when shooting precision shots). This gives you the ability to better track moving targets as well as will hasten your ability to acquire the target faster (objectively, you can use a shot-timer and do simple single-shot "up drills"), and you will be no less accurate.

 

I’ll buy more batteries for the EOTech and see if that makes a difference. It also gives me more trouble shooting in brighter applications like say an indoor range with bright lights or a sunny day.

 

Something is not right - either with the battery or with the sight itself. Achieving daylight brightness should not be a problem with the EOTechs. Hopefully, it's just a rare battery issue.

 

I went shooting on saturday and was hitting steel from 100 yards with no problem, couldn’t get an idea for my grouping because it was the club’s steel and it looked like swiss cheese. But here’s some comparisons:

 

Here’s from back over the summer, old rifle, dim indoor range 25 yards:

 

----

 

This was 4 weeks ago, first time shooting the new rifle and with the EOTech, 25 yards indoor, same range that is dimly lit:

 

----

 

This was 2 weeks ago, bright indoor range, 40 yards

 

 

Need I mind you any of these times I went shooting, I wasn’t trying to do anything more than blow off steam and **** off for an hour, but you can see from my old rifle my shots were a lot tighter and gave me some instant gratification

 

Out of curiosity, what kind of furniture - what buttstock - do you have on each gun?

 

My other thought is, post lasik i’ve become more sensitive to light, so in bright applications the EOTech may not suit my needs anymore, where as the MRO is tinted and I also ordered the anti-glare cap too. All sounds like excuses for shitty shooting, but I was a Marine for 6 years, I know I’m better than this.

 

OK, now the truth comes out! You were a Marine for a half-dozen years (thank you for your service) - so, yes, you should do better than that!

 

Eye issues could definitely play a role.

 

Part of the problem in dissecting issues like this is that you have to really try to hold constant environmental/ambient lighting. Even your non-prescription protective eyewear can cause issues - particularly the cheaper ones, there's actually a lot of optical distortion in the lens that may not be noticeable until you really have a detailed look at it. Make sure, to begin with, that you have quality protective eyewear that minimizes any distortions you may have to look through, when you're cheeked-up and looking through the sights.

 

I think that in order to really get a grip of what's going on here, we need to do some serious, boring, objective work. Really sitting down and meticulously dialing in a good, rock-solid zero on your guns, and then working to some kind of objective metric in order to see just what is going on.

 

Otherwise, there's a lot of confounding factors, and there's a lot of subjective uncertainties at play - which, when you introduce new gear into the equation, just begs that much more trouble.

 

FYI the dealer i bought the mro from on ebay is a reputable arms dealer from Pittsburgh with 100% positive feedback. It does come with 2 cheap mounts but i’ll probably buy a better one.

 

Good-to-go, then!

 

To be clear i won't be shooting 1000 yards very often. I actually don't shoot more than 300 yards that often. The range/club I belong to has a 100 yard range with steelies & you can bring your own paper/objects to shoot as well & they have a tactical range as well. I've gone to some of the local gun forum meets at other clubs, I know one of them has a 300, 500 & 800 yard range at it, so that's where I'd want to shoot the .308 is on their 800 yard range. Occasionally go out of state as well to places with long ranges, but for the most part when I go to places other than my own range, it's to fire 3-500 yards, but one of the perks to having a .308 is being able to shoot with more precision on longer targets than I would with my 5.56

 

Understood.

 

Nevertheless, I'd be speaking well outside of my lane, there. I really have never stretched the reach of my ARs, and therefore cannot speak with authority as to the type of glass that a shooter should be looking at.

 

The other stuff I can help you with - this, nope! This exceeds both the rather narrow width as well as the shallow depth of my little pond of know-how.

[THE RZA]

So what i’ve always done is I zero in my irons and then lollipop the dot after, that was EOtech’s suggestion per the user manual.

 

Prior to the EOTech I had a Primary Arms aimpoint replica which I never got a good zero on and broke it adjusting actually, they gave me a full refund and I bought EOTech.

 

I no longer have the colt, I regrettably sold it, it came with the full magpul furniture on it as you see it. The LWRC uses their own in house made stock. They used to use the same magpul stock that was on my colt, which I may change out for, I’m undecided about how I feel about lwrc’s stock, it’s a bit beefier than the magpul one.

 

What I do need to do is spend some real quality time with the rifle and get to used to it. So far I’ve shot it twice indoors because it’s been freakin cold, indoor ranges I’m limited to an hour of range time so it’s not enough.

 

The other 2 times I’ve been, one was with my friend who is an ICE agent and has a private range and 5000 rounds of ammo he wanted to burn through, so we were just screwing around shooting steel and mag dumping & speed shooting the whole time. The other time was at my club range this weekend and it was really busy, so I was limited to an hour of shooting steel at 100 yards and going with the rhythm of cease fires, so again not quality time. I’ll have to go back on a week day when it’s not busy and I can spend hours getting used to it.

 

We’re getting another cold front in this week so I may do another indoor session and do what you suggested. Do you make your windages on the RDS and co-witness the rear? I am a iron sight shooter, no denying that I learned everything iron sights and when I got out of boot camp everything involved ACOG’s. Which were fine for short distance shooting but I hated them for distance marksmanship.

[THE RZA]

I just took a picture for reference, my room is a lot dimmer than any range i’ve been shooting at and the camera phone doesn’t always do justice either.

 

 

I will get better batteries to take that out of the equation, but I also think it’s gonna come down to which one I feel is a better fit for me

[Merc6]

Yeah when I was stationed in NJ I just took my gun apart and hid it under the spare tire when I had to go that way for reserve duty. Folks were like move in my area and it's safe enough to not need a gun or lock your car. Nah I'm good.

 

Kinda impractical but I can "if want to" here all day. Same time when I go to the range I only practice with 10 rounds to get the feel of being out of town in a cripple mag state.

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/merc6/th_E5AD799E-6B93-4370-B85E-B1A026C445D2_zpsoclqui5h.jpg

 

Either way been to the range only 2 times this year, got sick a week after the Flu Shot.

 

1st time I just shot my 1911 and G17.

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/merc6/th_D7AECB02-5770-48F5-847D-04AF98902ABA_zpss09csrfo.jpg

 

On the way out I saw this "cute little gun" and decided to see what it did on a test fire. Never been so offended in my life, lol totally would never ever do that again.

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/merc6/th_5CBDD7B8-EA49-42EA-9162-85012FF50BFF_zpsqjdg0jfu.jpg

 

Next trip was my G17 and my 870. I needed ammo so I figured why not grab a free rental that "only shoots range ammo" and have less to clean later.

 

Went Hudson H9 again and broke it in 6 rounds... Squeeze the trigger 9 times and it finally went off on the 10'th.

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/merc6/th_677F8C71-E69F-465E-A6C1-45672095A851_zpsvdqx0we5.jpg

 

After that I figured why not try out this cool Operator style 19X everyone is talking about. It fired ok, kinda like the Gen 5 minus the magazine pinch zone on my pinky. It wasn't a bad gun but not worth the price to me. Mags are gen 4 all the way so no orange follower.

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/merc6/th_EAD47FB0-3B6F-4D8B-8868-37E54D05F30D_zpsfv88rof7.jpg

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/merc6/th_DFD387A0-BF51-41D4-B9E2-6E4125BDE712_zpshdxvylfs.jpg

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/merc6/th_343B142B-9D9B-48F1-A084-44C3C1BF5E21_zpsq2uicgwv.jpg