StkmltS Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) Pretty neat trick that my buddy came up with! Is your "buddy" the Internet? :lol: Now the fun begins on figuring out what to do! My buddy is still convincing me to do a forged build like previously mentioned and shoot for a 400awhp goal with a little room to grow to maybe 450awhp in the future.. Decisions....decisions... What do you guys think? Of course your friend wants you to do a forged build and shoot for 400-450hp. Those are the fun motors to talk about, and it's YOUR money. That's just human nature. Before you set a target on a high HP number do a few more hours worth of research about what kind of maintenance and repairs you'll be fast-forwarding to. More HP usually means driving faster, stopping faster, and turning faster. 450hp is almost double what the car was designed for. That's an awesome thing to shoot for, but all of that extra "enthusiasm" will put more than normal wear on all of the functional bits and pieces scattered throughout the car. Things will start failing before you want them too, and your car could turn in to a death-trap before you realize it. Brakes (not just pads and rotors), suspension parts, bushings everywhere, the clutch, axles, wheel bearings... you get the idea. You're not stupid for wanting more HP, but can you afford everything that comes with it? Doing stupid/awesome things to vehicles is totally fine by most car enthusiast's standards, as long as the builder knows what he's getting himself into (or has a ton of $$$). I enjoy maintaining my family's vehicles, but my financial situation is far from being able to keep up with owning a "built" Subaru. I don't want to keep my car mostly-stock for another 100k+ miles, but my wallet really really really really needs that to be a viable option. That's why I rebuilt my motor back to stock. Yes it was painful, but sometimes reliability trumps driving fast. TL;DR More HP increases the overall cost of owning the car, sometimes to the point of being too much to handle financially. Edited May 22, 2017 by StkmltS My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 Is your "buddy" the Internet? :lol: Of course your friend wants you to do a forged build and shoot for 400-450hp. Those are the fun motors to talk about, and it's YOUR money. That's just human nature. Before you set a target on a high HP number do a few more hours worth of research about what kind of maintenance and repairs you'll be fast-forwarding to. More HP usually means driving faster, stopping faster, and turning faster. 450hp is almost double what the car was designed for. That's an awesome thing to shoot for, but all of that extra "enthusiasm" will put more than normal wear on all of the functional bits and pieces scattered throughout the car. Things will start failing before you want them too, and your car could turn in to a death-trap before you realize it. Brakes (not just pads and rotors), suspension parts, bushings everywhere, the clutch, axles, wheel bearings... you get the idea. You're not stupid for wanting more HP, but can you afford everything that comes with it? Doing stupid/awesome things to vehicles is totally fine by most car enthusiast's standards, as long as the builder knows what he's getting himself into (or has a ton of $$$). I enjoy maintaining my family's vehicles, but my financial situation is far from being able to keep up with owning a "built" Subaru. I don't want to keep my car mostly-stock for another 100k+ miles, but my wallet really really really really needs that to be a viable option. That's why I rebuilt my motor back to stock. Yes it was painful, but sometimes reliability trumps driving fast. TL;DR More HP increases the overall cost of owning the car, sometimes to the point of being too much to handle financially. I do completely agree with you on what you're saying and thanks for the advice. There is definitely a lot more research to do before any parts are ordered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 It's a really nice thread about rebilding the engine, and yes, I'm in the same situation.. Skickat från min SM-C115 via Tapatalk Good luck on your rebuild! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) First you need to decide, DD or Saturday night car ? I have posted here many times, my wagon is a blast to drive everyday. Fast enough, but reliable. It's been 5 years since I cranked it over for the first time with a ej257 short block. There are plenty of other things in life to do besides fixing a broken high HP 2.5 liter engine. My wagon takes me to VT most every winter weekend for skiing. It's a great highway cruiser besides taking me to work everyday. Edited May 22, 2017 by Max Capacity 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) First you need to decide, DD or Saturday night car ? I have posted here many times, my wagon is a blast to drive everyday. Fast enough, but reliable. It's been 5 years since I cranked it over for the first time with a ej257 short block. There are plenty of other things in life to do besides fixing a broken high HP 2.5 liter engine. My wagon takes me to VT most every winter weekend for skiing. It's a great highway cruiser besides taking me to work everyday. That's what I can't decide on DD or Racecar....Racecar would be a great time, but reliable DD for winter driving would be just as nice. Making it a DD for winter would keep some miles of the sti and the salt off too...Its about to hit 60k On a side note, I did find a killer deal on a vf52 that is very local to me (hes asking $450), since I don't trust the stock vf40 that was on the car when it nuked. It only has 5k on it from a warranty swap from a 2012 wrx that is being parted out from an accident. Maybe toning down the power goals like everyone has mentioned would be a better play at this point. I'm working on pricing out a new SB at the moment and with a new SB from Subaru, oil pump, timing kit, oil cooler, clutch, head studs, gasket kit, etc it is approx $4500 (including 1k for head work ~ head work could be more or less, but 1k for a staring point)... Edited May 22, 2017 by maxspeed3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 Stock Rebuild list so far. Just the basics at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) Don't forget to include the new turbo, gaskets, hoses, hose clamps, extra bolts that WILL break, a few new tools of some sort probably, exhaust heat shields/wrap, gallons of coolant, gallons of oil, oil filters... I'll spare you the rest. Edited May 22, 2017 by StkmltS My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 :spin:The rest is just a given! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 (edited) That's what I can't decide on DD or Racecar....Racecar would be a great time, but reliable DD for winter driving would be just as nice. Making it a DD for winter would keep some miles of the sti and the salt off too...Its about to hit 60k On a side note, I did find a killer deal on a vf52 that is very local to me (hes asking $450), since I don't trust the stock vf40 that was on the car when it nuked. It only has 5k on it from a warranty swap from a 2012 wrx that is being parted out from an accident. Maybe toning down the power goals like everyone has mentioned would be a better play at this point. I'm working on pricing out a new SB at the moment and with a new SB from Subaru, oil pump, timing kit, oil cooler, clutch, head studs, gasket kit, etc it is approx $4500 (including 1k for head work ~ head work could be more or less, but 1k for a staring point)... You know how those of us with a vf52 and Tune from Mike Kinsman of wwwtuningalliance.com love the set up. Edited June 1, 2017 by Max Capacity 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Some more photos of the teardown! Main bearings look surprisingly good. A few score marks on them from when the rod bearing let go. It looks like when the bearing on #3 let go, the bearing material was melted onto the crank journal versus eating away at it. I don't plan to reuse this crankshaft, but maybe make a lamp out of it instead. More photos to follow of each piston and rod once I'm able to get them cleaned up a little bit. Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birkhoff Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Great pictures! Sometimes you can resize the rod big ends, but that one is toast. Better to source a replacement. I'd send all of them (3 plus replacement) to the machine shop and have them resized when you get the bores reconditioned. Mains do look good, but again, the crank is a goner. Don't even think about turning it down for oversize bearings. With the tight tolerances you need to hit, it is not uncommon to have to mix and match bearing shells. If you start with a new crank and with the mains looking that good, you may get away with a single set of STD size bearings. Get your pistons, take the case halves, pistons and rods into the machine shop and let them do their schtick. You probably just need a light hone and replace like with like on the pistons. If you want to be sure, add a step and have the machine shop pre-measure the bores and tell you if you need to go up a grade (if you can) on the piston size. Most likely you don't need to. You have a completely do-able project there and should be back to a good short block in no time. While your parts are in the shop you can turn your attention to the heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Heads, your going to have the machine shop rebuild them also...right ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StkmltS Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Mmmmm... sexy teardown pics! My DiySB rebuild Got Misfires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 Heads, your going to have the machine shop rebuild them also...right ? Yes the heads are going to be pressure tested, decked, cleaned, etc. I looked them over again last night and the only scoring I really saw that needs some work is on the passenger side on cylinder number 1 intake on the very front cam journal where the cam seal sits. But it should be able to be polished or a slight hone job and when the head is decked it will hopefully be good. Sent while redlining all of the gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 Mmmmm... sexy teardown pics! Thanks! I plan to post a bunch more as the build continues! Sent while redlining all of the gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted June 10, 2017 Author Share Posted June 10, 2017 After researching more over the past couple weeks I've decided go for a forged motor build instead of stock (pricing parts out its very close to a stock rebuild).... As in previous posts about a forged build a revised parts list is below. This is just the essentials (not including oil, coolant, misc. tools, hoses etc.) just the internals and major assembly parts. After the motor is assembled and in the car for the break in period I plan to run stock fueling with a conservative tune and once the motor is broken in I plan to switch to full e85 down the road. Also looking into turbos more I'm really leaning towards the BNR 20g since I don't trust the stock vf40 with almost 100k on it. My luck it would nuke and take out the fresh motor after a few thousand miles. Maybe I could make a turbo jet of out of it in the future.... Parts list with part numbers.... Subaru OEM Crankshaft................................................12200AA430 Manley Preformance Piston Set......................................MAN 612102C-4 Manley Preformance Connecting Rods.............................MAN 15024-4 ACL Race Main Bearing Standard Size Position #5............5M8309H-STD ACL Race Rod Bearings Standard Size 52mm Journal.......4B8296H-STD ARP Head Studs.........................................................260-4701 Subaru Engine Gasket Set...........................................10105AA720 Subaru Oil Cooler.......................................................21311AA051 Subaru Oil Pump.......................................................15010AA300 Gates Timing Belt Kit.................................................TCKWP328 Case Half Machine Work Head Work ACT HeavyDuty Street Clutch Kit ACT..........................SB11-HDSS BNR 20g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 (edited) Max I would add: STI oil pan. Moroso pickup. AVCS oil control solenoids - 10921AA080 New OCVs VALVE ASSEMBLY-OIL CONTROL (2) AVCS cam sprockets new or send yours to be rebuilt at Outfront Motorsports. Don't get the Gates kit with the water pump. If you go Gates get the non water pump kit and go with an oem water pump. 21111AA240 New Water Pump. (For Race-High performance engines use cast impeller water pump, 21111AA026) The quality of the Gates timing belt tensioner has been called into question too lately. A lot of people are going OEM on that or getting the Aisin kit instead. It seems Gates is using a chinese built tensioner, the Aisin is made in Japan. You can Google it and find a You Tube video that details the problems with the Gates. TiC FU cam bolts. And since you are planning a 20G and E-85: Phenolic Spacers. TGV deletes, the IAG aluminum ones, not the plastic ones. You'll also need to switch to top feed injectors and ID1300x or Cobb (same injector) . That means top feed fuel rails too. Even if you don't go e-85 you'll probably want to make the top feed switch now and ID1050x. http://injectordynamics.com/true-motorsport-injector/ And now add the e-85 compatible fuel pressure regulator. And a bigger in tank fuel pump to handle the volume you have to pump. It adds up QUICK when you go beyond stock! Edited June 11, 2017 by Sgt.Gator Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Max I would add: STI oil pan. Moroso pickup. AVCS oil control solenoids - 10921AA080 New OCVs VALVE ASSEMBLY-OIL CONTROL (2) AVCS cam sprockets new or send yours to be rebuilt at Outfront Motorsports. Don't get the Gates kit with the water pump. If you go Gates get the non water pump kit and go with an oem water pump. 21111AA240 New Water Pump. (For Race-High performance engines use cast impeller water pump, 21111AA026) The quality of the Gates timing belt tensioner has been called into question too lately. A lot of people are going OEM on that or getting the Aisin kit instead. It seems Gates is using a chinese built tensioner, the Aisin is made in Japan. You can Google it and find a You Tube video that details the problems with the Gates. TiC FU cam bolts. And since you are planning a 20G and E-85: Phenolic Spacers. TGV deletes, the IAG aluminum ones, not the plastic ones. You'll also need to switch to top feed injectors and ID1300x or Cobb (same injector) . That means top feed fuel rails too. Even if you don't go e-85 you'll probably want to make the top feed switch now and ID1050x. http://injectordynamics.com/true-motorsport-injector/ And now add the e-85 compatible fuel pressure regulator. And a bigger in tank fuel pump to handle the volume you have to pump. It adds up QUICK when you go beyond stock! Thanks for the heads up regarding the gates timing kit. I read something similar on iwsti forums. I do have a killerB pickup tube that was on the car from the previous owner, but the screen was full of bearing material when I took it out. Even with a good cleaning I'm still really hesitant about even using it on a fresh motor. Most likely I'll go with the Moroso like you mentioned, I've heard really good things about them! Out of curiosity what is the real difference between the two water pumps that you mentioned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Gator Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Out of curiosity what is the real difference between the two water pumps that you mentioned? The newer one uses a stamped steel vaned impeller. The older version uses a cast steel impeller. They "upgraded' the water pump because stamped steel is much cheaper to produce and works fine in the typical oem usage envelope. The older style is more reliable for sustained high rpm race motors. Nothing like a race track to find the weak points in man and machine. "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 Hey all! Been a while since I've updated the thread! Been doing a lot more research on the rebuild and found a very local seller to me selling a pair of d25 heads that have been completely redone and they include the alumaniti egr block off plates. So my question for you all is that after looking on the forum just to confirm these heads are a direct swap for an 05 lgt? I read that the d25 heads have a slightly different combustion chamber compaired to the b25 heads that I currently have. Being I'm not doing a stock rebuild as long as the math is run for the slight difference in compression ratio is there really anything to be concerned about or in the long run can the car just be retuned? Also is the only other issue to be concerned about is the oil line for the avcs system? Sent while redlining all of the gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Have you asked your Tuner that question ? 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 Its been a while since I've updated the thread.... Had a family emergency a few weeks ago so I haven't made any progress on the rebuild and last week I took the cylinder heads to the machinist. To keep the story short my passenger head is now going to be a paper weight.... The machinist isn't comfortable with the amount of wear on the cam journals so its time to at least find a good passenger side B25 head to use or a new pair and utilize the parts that I have from the old heads... On a side note, I've been reading into the ej20 swap that people have done on this forum as well as others. I know people are really happy with it once the car is tuned and the exhaust avcs is wired up. At this point I'm considering this swap for the lower cost (really want to drive the car), since the passenger side head I have is junk. The whole swap could be done for the cost of remain or new blank b25 head castings without any valve train components. Still trying to decide on what to do.... I will try to keep posting updates but school has started now so its going to be slow going for a few months.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 27, 2017 Share Posted August 27, 2017 Sorry to hear about the bad head...good luck. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Hey all, It's been a very long time since I've updated the progress of my rebuild thread. Long story short the past 6 months have been a roller coaster of events. But I can now say that the car is almost ready to move under its own power! I decided to go with the EJ20X (my car is a manual so Y) swap since it is very affordable to get the damn thing back on the road. I ordered the EJ20 from JDM Alliance in Garland, TX. The motor was $950 shipped with included residential lift gate fee. JDM alliance was very helpful with the transaction and the motor showed up as expected! For the swap I only swapped over the USDM wiring harness to the JDM motor. I left the jdm intake manifold, headers, turbo upipe, injectors etc on. My buddy was able to dissemble the jdm wiring harness and was able to salvage the exhaust avcs plugs that connect to the brown bulkhead connector under the tmic. However I will need to repin and add the additional wires that run through the main body harness connector on the passenger side of the engine bay at a later date, once I have the JDM ecu. I plan to document the wiring process so others that plan to do this swap have something to go off of. It will be a few weeks yet before I can get this information online because I do not have the JDM ecu yet. Before swapping out the eprom chips for the immobilizer, I'm going to take the car running the usdm ecu to a local dealer to see if they can reprogram the immobilizer in the lot once the jdm ecu is swapped over with the wiring for the exhaust avcs already in place. If for some reason they can't reprogram the ecu, then I will document the eprom swapping process. Overall this swap is pretty straight forward. I had to remove some misc. coolant lines that were cut from the donor car and the bypass valve hose. I did also "T" off the coolant port on the back of the drivers side cylinder head into the heater core lines. I used an Exedy OEM replacement clutch kit. FJK1001. The previous owner had bought that same kit with the lightweight flywheel so I had my local machinist resurface the flywheel. If needed that kit part number is FJK1001FW (with flywheel). I found the kit on Amazon for $285 with free shipping! Everything bolted right up to the ej20 and I reused my ej255 hardware for the flywheel and clutch. For the ej20 I swapped out spark plugs since doing them in the car is a pain in the a**. The ej20 and ej25 use the same part number for spark plugs and can be cross referenced with Denso or NGK. Once the motor was in the car and everything was buttoned up I pulled the fuel pump fuse to prime the motor and build oil pressure. it turned over and idled pretty good. I do not have a downpipe for it as of yet. I ordered a Tomokia Racing Twinscroll downpipe (Part# ES1006) and it arrived today and it unfortunately doesn't fit after Tomokia Confirmed fitment that it does. I'm currently working with them to figure another option out at this point. It could be the ES1005 part number instead. Still trying to confirm this information with them. If anyone has any incite for a downpipe that does fit other then the $800 HKS from Japan or merging a stock flange from the jdm motor, which my motor didn't come with a chunk, I'd really appreciate it! My motor came with the VF-38 twin scroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspeed3 Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 Some photos of the ej20. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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