MarkM08 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 I am brand new to this forum so if this has been covered before my apologies for opening a new thread. This is my first post My 08 Legacy GT is out in CO with my wife, She made it from WI using the a/c. When she got off interstate in Denver, the compressor let go. She shut off the a/c immediately. I read the term Stealership on here before. Well there is one in Denver that said 2,400.00 out the door to fix it. Basically they were replacing the entire a/c system. I laughed and told them to disconnect the compressor. I also laughed when I told him to order the compressor and he told me 899.00. I found one on RockAuto brand new for 300 and change. Luckily my brother has a relationship with a mechanic out there that is 10x more reasonable cost wise than the dealership. I had him replace the condenser and the drier (condenser bag). He also flushed the system She drove car from Denver to Alamosa (4 hrs one way) and on way back compressor starts going again (blowing hot air intermittently). She shut it off again and brought it back to guy in Denver and sure enough he indicated the compressor was in early stage of locking up. The good new is, he is standing by his work and will redo the condenser and bag at no cost. The bad news is it is going to blow up again if used. The mechanic believes the expansion valve is the culprit. Is that likely? If yes, how buried is it to get to it to replace it? If it is under the dash, I recently had the takata left leg/out passenger airbag inflator replaced due to recall. Is it possible they screwed something up with the expansion valve when doing that fix? The a/c worked fine until she took it home from that work being done and then she noticed it started intermittently blowing warm. Sorry about the long story. Any help is appreciated. I don't want to be chasing the problem and if it was the dealership that did the airbag recall, I want them to eat part of the fix costs. Thanks to any who can provide guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/ You should be able to find the expansion valve in the service manual. Welcome to the forum. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM08 Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 Thanks Gearhead. I pulled down the manual and will keep it for reference. That is a good pdf file to have. After posting, I found this YouTube vid - - showing the location of the valve on the firewall. We are going to replace that valve along with the compressor in the hope the evaporator core is not the culprit. We will know pretty quick. If hot air blows at highway speeds we will shut it down and are going to have to get to the core and replace that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustCallMeNick Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Interesting issue. Keep us posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 I know absolutely nothing about AC systems, so I'm interested to hear more as well. After reading another thread recently, it seems like lockmedic knows quite a bit about AC stuff.. I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM08 Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 Thanks Monkey. I PM'd lockmedic in the hope he gives feedback. This thread - http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/subaru-lego-outb-recall-2005-2008-248410p24.html - has 24 pages of complaints about the recall. Nothing that I can see related to the evaporator being damaged. Regardless, I put a post on that thread seeing if anyone else has the same issue I am having. The valve is going in this week. I will keep all posted on the issue. Stay tuned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 The evaporator is housed inside a plastic box on the firewall, no reason for it to be removed to service the airbag. That job only pays like 2 hours and the techs hate to do it so there's no way they'd pull the evap just for $hits and giggles (as it requires pulling down the AC system and recharging it) . . . they do drop down the glove box and work in that general vicinity but it's not disturbed at all to replace the inflator. And the expansion valve is accessed from under the hood, not under the dash. . . so yeah. . . the airbag recall had nothing to do with it. Follow the big line from the compressor and the little line from the condensor back to the firewall. . .where they enter is your expansion valve. Have to remove the lines and it's a block that bolts in. If the compressor has failed, it's possible it has left some debris in the expansion valve. Replacing the drier bag is helpful but as the only restriction in the system (other than the drier) is the expansion valve, that's the most likely place debris will pile up. Everything else is just pipes. Worth mentioning you should flush out the condensor, evaporator, and all hoses before replacing the compressor. You can buy AC flush in a can at NAPA, blow some of that through and follow up with compressed air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM08 Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 Thanks for the quick reply to my PM lockmedic. I guess the good news is it sounds like once we get the valve replaced and system flushed we should be back in business. I will keep all posted if this solved the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Condensers are cheap. Replace it at the same time. It holds all of the junk from your grenaded compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM08 Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 Thanks JmP. Rereading my post I overlooked the condenser. That was done on the first go round with the drier and compressor. The replacement compressor did not grenade so we are down to the expansion valve which we are doing this go round. I will keep all posted on results. Should be no later than Weds this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM08 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 To all that are interested - we replaced the following: Compressor - 2x Condensor - 1x Drier - 1x Valve - 1x Result = still a problem. The only things left to replace are the evaporator and lines at this point. The evaporator is a 5 hr job behind the dash. You can get to it without removing the dash. Once she gets back will do that as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 What is this "problem" you speak of? Leak, or ??? The evaporator is a heat exchanger. . . it's a big long tube folded around with some fins on the outside. If it's not leaking, it's probably working. . . provided you haven't sprayed a bunch of insulating material around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM08 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 lockmedic - he said the pressures were ok but when the compressor was run, after getting warm, went very high. No leaks. I also asked him about the location of the evaporator. He looked it up on Chiltons for an 08 LGT and said you have to access from inside. 5hrs labor plus parts and no removal of dash to do it. In other words it's not on the firewall but behind the glove and under airbag I spoke to the guy I work with back home and he said, for all it's worth, when compressors grenade on the 08 everything including lines should be replaced. I'm wondering if the models or equipment changed since what your quoting seems to be a different model if the evap is on the firewall and not behind the bag and glove box. I'm definitely not questioning your expertise just wondering what else could possibly be blocking the flow and driving pressures through the roof. When he flushed he said he didn't experience any blockage in the lines. fyi...he did 6 a/c's in the time my car sat in his shop. I'm at a loss where to go next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 If the guy is in Colorado I'm sure he works on a lot of subaru's and knows them, but I'll throw this out there anyways because it looks like a pain to replace the evaporator.. I wonder what pressures he was reading? 213-242psi sounds high to me (not knowing anything about AC systems), but the FSM says that's normal. I wonder if your pressures are actually ok...? I also did some reading trying to figure this out, and people are saying Subaru's are picky about how much of a charge their AC systems have, too much or too little can cause issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Lol behind the glove box *is* on the firewall. . the inside of the firewall. We're talking about the same thing. video of an R&R on a WRX. Your Legacy will be very similar. The function of the evaporator doesn't change from one model to another. . . I just don't understand the diagnosis here. Then again I realize it's being filtered through a person or two so I'm not gonna call BS. . . just "show your work". The only legit reason I can come up with for replacing an evaporator is a leak, a massive clog, or physical damage (which typically manifests as one of the first two). If it was able to be flushed, it's not clogged. If it's holding refrigerant, it's not leaking. Excessive high side pressure can be the result of: -inop fans -condensor full of junk/dirty (painting them isn't great for their heat exchange ability either) -expansion valve failing to open, or failing to open far enough. -overcharged system -air/moisture in the system (did you pull a vacuum before recharging?) These systems take very little refrigerant. Something like 12-16 oz if memory serves (I just look at the sticker). Just a couple of weeks ago I "fixed" an AC system on an 07 NA legacy that another local shop had declared the compressor/condensor/expansion valve a total write-off. The only issue was the system was grossly overcharged. You'd think 500psi on the high side would be a dead giveaway. . . not for everybody it seems. Side effect of the "freon will fix it!" attitude fostered by all the AC Pro crap at the parts stores. As far as pressures go, it varies with ambient air temp but I'm happy if it's about a 10:1 ratio and between 200-250 on the high side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM08 Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 lockmedic - stay tuned. I am going to forward your comments (entire thread) and the jpg that apexi emails me to him and see if he will come on or document a response to it in more detail. I understand your frustration and agree third hand commentary from me is getting a lot lost in translation. No need to respond to me this point. I will repost once I get a response from him in writing with more detail to post. Again I appreciate your guys help with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Lol mechanics aren't real big fans of having guys on the internet do their diagnostics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy969 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I am brand new to this forum so if this has been covered before my apologies for opening a new thread. This is my first post My 08 Legacy GT is out in CO with my wife, She made it from WI using the a/c. When she got off interstate in Denver, the compressor let go. She shut off the a/c immediately. I read the term Stealership on here before. Well there is one in Denver that said 2,400.00 out the door to fix it. Basically they were replacing the entire a/c system. I laughed and told them to disconnect the compressor. I also laughed when I told him to order the compressor and he told me 899.00. I found one on RockAuto brand new for 300 and change. Luckily my brother has a relationship with a mechanic out there that is 10x more reasonable cost wise than the dealership. I had him replace the condenser and the drier (condenser bag). He also flushed the system She drove car from Denver to Alamosa (4 hrs one way) and on way back compressor starts going again (blowing hot air intermittently). She shut it off again and brought it back to guy in Denver and sure enough he indicated the compressor was in early stage of locking up. The good new is, he is standing by his work and will redo the condenser and bag at no cost. The bad news is it is going to blow up again if used. The mechanic believes the expansion valve is the culprit. Is that likely? If yes, how buried is it to get to it to replace it? If it is under the dash, I recently had the takata left leg/out passenger airbag inflator replaced due to recall. Is it possible they screwed something up with the expansion valve when doing that fix? The a/c worked fine until she took it home from that work being done and then she noticed it started intermittently blowing warm. Sorry about the long story. Any help is appreciated. I don't want to be chasing the problem and if it was the dealership that did the airbag recall, I want them to eat part of the fix costs. Thanks to any who can provide guidance. Groove Subaru? When I took a roadtrip out there this stealership told me my Headgaskets were shot. Leaking coolant everywhere. 3k out the door. I laughed and said gimme my car back. Got home "mn" brought it to my local spot nothing wrong at all. Gotta love Limp MODE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM08 Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Jeremy - You are 100% correct. It was Groove. He quoted me that number and I told them close the hood and we will pick up the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM08 Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Lol behind the glove box *is* on the firewall. . the inside of the firewall. We're talking about the same thing. video of an R&R on a WRX. Your Legacy will be very similar. The function of the evaporator doesn't change from one model to another. . . I just don't understand the diagnosis here. Then again I realize it's being filtered through a person or two so I'm not gonna call BS. . . just "show your work". The only legit reason I can come up with for replacing an evaporator is a leak, a massive clog, or physical damage (which typically manifests as one of the first two). If it was able to be flushed, it's not clogged. If it's holding refrigerant, it's not leaking. Excessive high side pressure can be the result of: -inop fans -condensor full of junk/dirty (painting them isn't great for their heat exchange ability either) -expansion valve failing to open, or failing to open far enough. -overcharged system -air/moisture in the system (did you pull a vacuum before recharging?) These systems take very little refrigerant. Something like 12-16 oz if memory serves (I just look at the sticker). Just a couple of weeks ago I "fixed" an AC system on an 07 NA legacy that another local shop had declared the compressor/condensor/expansion valve a total write-off. The only issue was the system was grossly overcharged. You'd think 500psi on the high side would be a dead giveaway. . . not for everybody it seems. Side effect of the "freon will fix it!" attitude fostered by all the AC Pro crap at the parts stores. As far as pressures go, it varies with ambient air temp but I'm happy if it's about a 10:1 ratio and between 200-250 on the high side. lockmedic - I just got off phone with my guy in CO. He is old school so posting to a forum for him won't happen. I have his email and he wants to figure this out as well. Here are my notes based on your questions: Excessive high side pressure can be the result of: -inop fans These worked fine on both hi and lo speed -condensor full of junk/dirty (painting them isn't great for their heat exchange ability either) this is brand new so isn't issue -expansion valve failing to open, or failing to open far enough. this was replaced. the only way it can be bad in my mind is if it was defective -overcharged system I read your comment to him and he put in Freon in the range you quoted - 12-16 oz of Freon -air/moisture in the system (did you pull a vacuum before recharging?) on both tries he vacuumed for a half hour. No debris was coming out. So to recap what happened after the expansion valve and 2nd condenser replacement: He replaced expansion valve, replaced compressor with correct amount of oil, vacuumed system for 30 minutes and charged. When running the car with ac on the low side was reading 35 the high side was 170. He did comment it was blowing warm when it should have been around 40 degrees. He also commented that there was no temperature variance on the hoses which he found strange. The blowing warm and no temp variance on the hoses led him to believe we would likely end up another compressor failure. She is driving home with compressor unplugged. At least temps are low today in IA and WI. I asked him how he knew the 1st compressor he put on was going and he said the clutch on the compressor was melted and the air was cool but wasn’t cold. He could still get that compressor to engage even though it was starting to melt. fyi...The first compressor and condenser when she drove off were blowing 40 degrees. I forwarded the jpg files from alexi to his email and he will look at those and give me any input back. He agrees that there is no way the hoses need to be replaced. I mentioned the evaporator and he said based on your input, it can not be the problem either. He recommended taking to my local guy here, just have them evaporate, vacuum and recharge and get their take on it. I will likely do that. Those are my notes and comments from him based on what I read in your and alexi's posts to him. He wants to figure this out as bad as I (we) do. I think we will do the evac and recharge and start there. Comments / feedback on the above are appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy969 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Jeremy - You are 100% correct. It was Groove. He quoted me that number and I told them close the hood and we will pick up the car. I was there getting my oil changed, I have a few friends out in CO when I checked in there on FB buddies told me "GET OUTTA THERE NOW!!" haha.. Gotta love Limp MODE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM08 Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 lockmedic - update: my wife got back last night. The car was still hot from the trip home from WI. I plugged compressor back in and ran a/c. With mode set to pull outside air and both zones set at 65 to blow from vents at body level, the passenger side is blowing very cold-in other words the air is working fine. The drivers side vents were not blowing cold. They were both blowing warm. Again, any input on this and prior posts is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 If one side is blowing warm and the other blowing cold, could a air duct have become disconnected ? It's easy to [o[ the air vent out of the dash by the drivers door. Pop it out and see if you can feel the air blowing behind it. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Sounds like an issue with one of the blend door actuators. Does it get hotter if you change that side to heat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkM08 Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share Posted July 4, 2016 lockmedic - yes it does blow hotter when I crank the heat up to max with ac on. Did you see my other response from the CO wrench to your prior post? Did you see anything out of the ordinary there? update...I did test with ac on, passenger side set to low and drivers side to high. Drivers side got hot and passenger side stayed cool. Reversed process and passenger side got hot and drivers side was not near as cool as passenger side when doing the opposite. The car is sitting in my garage and is not warmed up yet so it would blow hotter had I got it up to operating temp. Re MaxCap - I will pull the vent and let you know. Just a heads up there are 2 vents blowing warm. One by the nav screen and the one by the door. update...all floor and upper vents are blowing warm on drivers side. This is not one disconnected air duct unless it resides behind the radio / nav / climate control console Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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