At Oil Temp and Brake lights flashing and VDC light solid

[GtCesar]

**** Warning super long post ****

 

TL : DR = Please tell me my car isn't completely ruined!

 

 

I have a recurring issue with my 2010 Legacy with a CVT. I have searched both this forum and Google and not been able to find anything that matches my issues. If this issue has been discussed before and I'm just a shitty searcher please direct me to the pages I need. I'll try to be as descriptive as I can be without rambling.

 

 

I have a ~$15 blue tooth OBD2 code scanner that I used with the “Torque Lite” and “Piston” apps and it didn't pull any codes.

 

 

I have dates, times and mileage for some occurrences thanks to video I recorded of the warning lights flashing.

 

 

The issues:

 

Shift interlock? (just noticed yesterday)

Constant clicking sound coming from shifter in park with engine running, can be shifted out of park WITHOUT pressing the brake pedal.

 

 

Occasional hesitation/jerky acceleration pulling away from a stop (at least once followed by the warning lights the next day)

 

 

Warning lights (has happened at least 3 documented times)

 

[Driving around town] “AT Oil Temp” and “Brake” lights flashing with the VDC symbol on solid.

 

[turn car off and back on] flashing brake light and a solid VDC light

 

[turn car off and back on] no warning lights

 

 

 

Yesterday 06/12/2016, 8:15ish pm 171,083 miles.

 

My wife and I were out driving around running some errands. I thought I noticed a slight hesitation/jerkiness while pulling away from a stop but my wife didn't notice anything. We decided to get a cold drink at the Sonic. It was around 100 F out so we had the car running with the AC on full blast while we waited what seemed like 4 hours for our order (real time 10-15 minutes). While we were waiting I noticed a constant clicking coming from the shifter so I turned off the radio. The clicking was quite annoying so I was playing around trying to figure out what it was and get it to stop. It sounded an awful lot like the shift interlock engaging and disengaging. The noise stopped when I pressed the brake pedal and started again when I let off. I set the parking brake and was able to shift out of park WITHOUT my foot on the brake pedal. We got our drinks and headed home. About halfway into the approximately 2 mile drive the warning lights came on.

 

 

06/06/2016, 5:25ish pm 170,285 miles

 

I was out of town trip for work approximately 325 miles from home. I drove down on 06/05 with no issues, found the hotel, dropped off my bags them went exploring around town. I noticed a subtle hesitation/jerky acceleration from a stop. My wife didn't notice this until I pointed it out. It occurred a handful of times. Morning 06/06 I drove approximately 6.5miles from my hotel to work with no warning lights or issues. Afternoon 06/06 I left work and went straight back to the hotel. The warning lights came on withing about a half mile of the hotel. We ventured out for dinner that night, then explored some more in the morning before we returned home 06/07 with no issues.

 

 

04/01/2016, 10:20ish pm 167,120 miles

 

I had forgotten about this occurrence that I had written off as a fluke. I actually found the video I took of the lights flashing while looking for something else in my phones gallery. No hesitation or jerky acceleration that I can remember. We were out driving around town maybe 45 minutes and the Warning lights came on. I drove to the nearest parking lot and shut it off and began Googling but I couldn't find anything useful. I started it back up the “VDC” light was on and the “Brake” light was flashing but the AT Oil Temp was off so I drove home. No warning lights after turning it off and on again at home.

 

 

02/15/2016 around 160,000 I got an unfix-able flat.

 

After about a week of driving on the tiny spare I replaced 2 tires with the same size make and model. The new tires had 11/32 and the old had 8/32. I checked with the local Subaru dealer before putting them on and the man I spoke with said the difference of 3/32 was acceptable. I also bought a rim and mounted the still good old tire so I could have a full sized spare.

 

 

Some unrecorded date several months before the two new tires.

 

My wife and made a “short trip” to meet her father half way for lunch about 100 miles out of town. After lunch we returned to our home town (100 miles) and drove around the metro area looking at houses and apartments for a possible next residence. Between houses a noticed a subtle hesitation/jerkiness that steadily increased to an un-ignorable and quite concerning harsh jerkiness while accelerating from a stop at about 10-15 or maybe 15-20 mph. The best way I can describe the feeling would be a standard auto shifting hard because its low on transmission fluid. I don't recall any warning lights after but that doesn't mean they didn't.

 

 

I'm sorry for such a long post. I'm hoping someone here will know something. Every time I called any dealer with an issue for any car I've been told “We will have to look at it, why don't you bring it in.”

 

 

 

 

I have the same problem with my 2009 forester every time I go up hill the check engine, traction control, abs, cruise control and A/T oil temp lights turn on ... We have learned to ignore the problem

[aperson]

I have personally pulled 4 different subaru motors and never had the tc stuck to the engine. When you unbolt it you push it back off the engine and it is no longer contacting the flex plate.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

This, once the nuts/bolts are out take a prybar or a big screwdriver and break it loose from the flexplate. Also IMO it's easier to pull the trans on this than pull the motor. My nephew and I could do a clutch job in 3 hours on my WRX vs the 2 hours to pull everything off the motor and get it out. More stuff to disconnect = more points of failure when reassembling. I think the reason the TC came out with the motor is either a) they didn't pop the TC off the flexplate or b) they angled the motor so much that it caught on the TC and pulled it out with it.

[FLlegacy]

With the bottom studs you have to pull the engine away from the transmission a good 3 to 4" before you can lift it up so either someone didn't know what they were doing or the studs came loose in the engine block, and someone didn't know/realize what they were doing.

[dgoodhue]

02/15/2016 around 160,000 I got an unfix-able flat.

 

After about a week of driving on the tiny spare I replaced 2 tires with the same size make and model. The new tires had 11/32 and the old had 8/32. I checked with the local Subaru dealer before putting them on and the man I spoke with said the difference of 3/32 was acceptable.

 

I missed this the first time, but 3/32nd an unacceptable difference. Subaru states a maximum difference of 1/32nd difference. The math of 3/32nd is about 0.6" larger circumference. This ends being 3 revolutions less every mile. That doesn't sound too bad but when you realize that the awd differential is spinning about 4 times faster because of the gear reduction of the front and rear differential. That means @ 60mph the difference between the front and rear is one full revolution about 12 times every minute or once every 5 seconds. This equates to heat and wear, when the VTD clutch is being engaged. It only gets worse as you drive faster. You may be able see a parameter for the AWD clutch duty cycle, you will see that it varies but it constantly applying some power to the rear wheels. This could be your issue, but if it isn't the problem you should correct it anyways.

 

If you put one 11/32nd tire on the front and one of 11/32 tires on the rear, the open F&R differentials would split the difference and will equalize the speed difference VTD AWD clutch in your transmission.

[Silver2010legacy]

Sunday (7/31) I drove the car approximately 150 miles from the "small town" to my "big city." They lights were annoying but I didn't experience any issues except for the RPMs dropping off whenever I let off the gas/switched off the cruise control.

 

On Monday (8/1) I drove the car to work then dropped it off at a shop that specializes in Subarus over my lunch break.

 

The tech called me today. He confirmed the clicking sound coming from shifter in park with engine running. He said when he turned the car off and back on the clicking stopped. He was also able to shift out of park WITHOUT pressing the brake pedal. He said one of the computers thinks the brakes are being pressed but the tail lights don't come on. He suspects an issue with the alternator over charging the system and causing problems. He will do some testing on the alternator and the electrical system and get back to me.

 

I'm crossing my fingers he is right. If he is right I'll kick myself for not figuring it out but it'll be fixed.

[Silver2010legacy]

Subaru states a maximum difference of 1/32nd difference.

 

Where did you find this information? I searched quite a while before I called the dealer. I only called the dealer because I couldn't find any information from Subaru. I could only find general statements about AWD systems ranging from "all tires must be replaced as a set" to "its fine as long as they are the same size, even if they are different makes/brands/tread patterns." The man I spoke with at the dealer told me a difference of 3/32nds with the same size, make and model of tire would be fine.

[FLlegacy]

Your owners manual should have that information in it, if you don't have one look it up on subarus website there is a pdf version on the support page.

[Ellesedil]

http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=18

 

Subaru Within 1/4-inch of tire circumference or about 2/32-inch of each other in remaining tread depth.

 

The best bet, though, is to definitely refer to your manual.

[dgoodhue]

Where did you find this information? I searched quite a while before I called the dealer. I only called the dealer because I couldn't find any information from Subaru. I could only find general statements about AWD systems ranging from "all tires must be replaced as a set" to "its fine as long as they are the same size, even if they are different makes/brands/tread patterns." The man I spoke with at the dealer told me a difference of 3/32nds with the same size, make and model of tire would be fine.

 

I looked through the manual and the 2012 Service manual and did not find an exact specification. Subaru literature says all 4 tires must be replaced and the tire must be all the same diameter and circumference. I must be regurgitating what I have read on the forum about 1/32nd difference, that being said and knowing the math of difference between the front and rear drive difference that the transfer clutch see, I still feel that 3/32nd of tread depth is too much of a difference. Potentially the chattering you are feeling could be due to worn out awd clutches (from the tire mismatch) and the clicking noise you hear in park is the metal to metal noise of the worn out clutches when the AWD engaging. The noise maybe present all the time, but the road, engine/drivetrain noise drown it out.

[Silver2010legacy]

I'll check in the manual about the tire specs when I get the car back.

 

I spoke with the tech that has been working on my car. He said the alternator is bad. It is over charging and he determined it was causing the shift interlock clicking and the TCM thinking the break pedal is being pressed. He thinks the short in the old solenoid and/or over charging alternator could have damaged the TCM OR the torque converter itself is bad. I'll look up pricing on a new TCM and I might replace it myself if it's cheap enough. I may just bring it home after the alternator goes in and try to find it a new owner.

 

The tech listed off a bunch of stuff he checked and how he checked it. It sounds like it did a pretty through job of trying to shake out the problems. He said he doesn't want me paying for him throwing on parts that might not solve the problem.

 

They ordered a genuine subaru alternator this morning BEFORE I called them and asked about my car. I'm kinda grumpy about that. I probably would have told them to order it and put it in any way but it bugs me they assumed and ordered it without informing me of the situation or asking I want to go ahead with work.

[Silver2010legacy]

After I got the car back from the shop I drove it to and from work everyday, clearing the codes before every trip. I had the same symptoms and issues during that time but they did not worsen.

 

I sold my legacy about a week and a half ago to a young man who was very excited to get it. I disclosed the issues I've had and what I had done in an attempt to fix it. I sold it for way less than I wanted but more than any of the dealers offered. I did not tell the dealers about any of the issues and they only offered me pennies for the car.

 

Moral of the story - if you have issues and a shop offers to replace the tranny with low mileage used for "about $2300," DO IT!

 

I spent more time and money trying to fix it myself than I should have and got absolutely nowhere. I have a newer vehicle with fewer miles but I also have a car payment. If only I could go back.... Oh well! The wife is glad to be done with all the car stuff and she REALLY likes the new vehicle. I may have to find something else for myself.

[08SpecB_DE]

That's how most DIY, weekend mechanics stories end. Transmissions are complicated components even more so when it's a CVT. It's a shame your resolution was to sell it but hopefully the guy knows what he bought. Doesn't sound like you bought another Subaru, what did you get? I hate CVT with a passion and will avoid them at any means necessary. They are nothing but headaches. Good luck with the new car!

[choi0706]

After I got the car back from the shop I drove it to and from work everyday, clearing the codes before every trip. I had the same symptoms and issues during that time but they did not worsen.

 

I sold my legacy about a week and a half ago to a young man who was very excited to get it. I disclosed the issues I've had and what I had done in an attempt to fix it. I sold it for way less than I wanted but more than any of the dealers offered. I did not tell the dealers about any of the issues and they only offered me pennies for the car.

 

Moral of the story - if you have issues and a shop offers to replace the tranny with low mileage used for "about $2300," DO IT!

 

I spent more time and money trying to fix it myself than I should have and got absolutely nowhere. I have a newer vehicle with fewer miles but I also have a car payment. If only I could go back.... Oh well! The wife is glad to be done with all the car stuff and she REALLY likes the new vehicle. I may have to find something else for myself.

 

 

so you never tried replacing the tq converter? I noticed subaru revised the tq converter again. I have the new one , just looking for time to change it.

[Silver2010legacy]

I ended up buying a Toyota Rav4. I wouldn't have been against another subaru, even one with a CVT. I got 50,000 trouble free miles on my high mileage legacy. As you probably know Subarus hold their value really well keeping most of the used ones out of my budget for price and mileage. If I had a convenient place to do the work, some tools, and had been able to convince my wife, I would have fixed it eventually. I would have gotten a cheap beater to drive and had the subaru in pieces months ago.

 

Having a place to do the work was the big part. The work I did do was done at my in-laws two and a half hours away. I live in an apartment. We are only "allowed" 2 parking spots. Working on cars in the parking lot is "forbidden" I could rent a garage here at the complex but they are stupid expensive, tiny, and don't have any power in them.

[FLlegacy]

There is something to be said for having a driveway to work in without interference. But I can see your situation also, my wife doesn't tolerate unreliable vehicles either. Luckily hers has only had minor issues, but the airbag recall is getting a bit annoying.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[choi0706]

I replaced the tq converter yesterday myself. My code P2763 is still on, but I have not yet reset the computer or tried activating the learn procedure. This morning it seemed to stop stalling at red lights.

 

Fwiw, replacing the tq converter is not easy and that CVT transmission is very heavy.

[ehsnils]

That's good. Come back with if the code is gone after a reset.

 

And it's a learning experience to do stuff like that. Next time you know what to do - and you can help others with tips.

[choi0706]

Yeah, I won't be doing it again. It was pretty high on the difficulty scale, and honestly I'd think it might be easier to pull the motor than transmission.

 

Also they've redesigned the tq converter again. It ends in 172 now.

[choi0706]

so it's not doing anything for the code. It certainly stalls a lot less, but it appears I will need to replace the valve body as well. I will need to check the harness first, but I'm doubtful its a wiring problem.

[Silver2010legacy]

so it's not doing anything for the code. It certainly stalls a lot less, but it appears I will need to replace the valve body as well. I will need to check the harness first, but I'm doubtful its a wiring problem.

 

You should reset the TCU and put it into learn mode (if you haven't already) before you buy more parts. You can do a resistance test on the solenoids through the harness on top of the transmission very easily. I posted the correct values somewhere in this thread. If you find the resistance is off it might be cost effective to buy another transmission from Car-part.com. You shouldn't have any problems installing a new valve body if you decide to go that route.

[choi0706]

I unpluged the connector on the side of the CVT transmission and "cleaned" out the dust on the outside. Reset and the CEL did not come back on (driven 40miles). It appears to drive better but rarely it'll shake on cold starts moving out the driveway.

[choi0706]

I unpluged the connector on the side of the CVT transmission and "cleaned" out the dust on the outside. Reset and the CEL did not come back on (driven 40miles). It appears to drive better but rarely it'll shake on cold starts moving out the driveway.

 

seems to be all settled. drove about 200 miles and no sign of stalls and shakes.

 

I still get a slight shake going down (in reverse) on an incline like a steep driveway. But it's MUCH better than before. Also MPG went up from 21mpg to 28mpg.

 

I will be checking the fluid level again to to rule out the stalling on inclines.