subi_life Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Hi so first off to let everyone know I'm running a Cobb cold air intake and a Cobb accessport with the correct tune. It recently just drove to Tahoe and it was doing perfect the whole way there but on the way back it dident start acting weird or nothing it just started showing me different numbers on my accessport for the (DAM) and (Fine Knock Learn) should I check in to it or dose anybody know what could be causing this?? Before the (DAM) read 1.000 and the (fine knock learn) never really said anything but 0000 and sometimes gets to -4 http://vid510.photobucket.com/albums/s349/cameraman_05/Mobile%20Uploads/trim.7F168D04-B0CC-4876-BB9E-0F812F5D3D58.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battelready Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 What are the A/F learning values. It might be a leak . Be carefull driving though. Knock isnt good. I bought an auto be more involved in my uninvolvedness . 200k+ Club If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit. My high mileage turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 By "correct tune" what tune are you running? Are there any additional modifications such as a downpipe? What fuel did you get? How many fill-ups were there on the way to/from? When did you get gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subi_life Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 I'm running Th 91oct stage 1 with Cobb intake. And no downpipe or any other modifications and I stopped at a chevron in Tahoe and that was the last time I filled up till I got home. But after I got 91oct gas in Tahoe at the chevron it started showing the different numbers on my accessport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatentWagen Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Yea, I've gotten a bad tank before and had DAM drop all the way in the Saabaru. Saw lots of timing pulled, too. Take it easy for the rest of the tank, fill up with Shell or other top tier, reset the ECU, and scratch that bad gas station off the list. LW's spec. B / YT / IG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subi_life Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Ok I'll give that a try, And when I reset the Ecu will i need to install my tune again? Also if that dosent work what else could the problem be? Maybe a coil pack going bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phate Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 If you're worried about a bad tank, you can pull a couple degrees of timing globally under the Tune section of the accessport (at least you can on the V3), and be gentle on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Don't reset the ECU. Let it fix itself. It is either false knock or actual knock. If you have actual knock, resetting the ECU isn't going to fix it. I know this from experience. You need several hundred miles on the car to settle in the tune. Resetting the ECU will likely make it seem like it was just a one-off occurrence, but in actuality you may have a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatentWagen Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 ... after I got 91oct gas in Tahoe at the chevron it started showing the different numbers on my accessport. Sounds like bad gas to me. Finish/empty the tank, then reset the ECU after filling up with good gas. If it's still knocking after you know you've cleared out the suspect gasoline, then you may have a "real problem"... until then, take it easy. And, as said, pulling a few degrees across the board is a good idea. Don't reset the ECU. Let it fix itself. It is either false knock or actual knock. If you have actual knock, resetting the ECU isn't going to fix it. I know this from experience. You need several hundred miles on the car to settle in the tune. Resetting the ECU will likely make it seem like it was just a one-off occurrence, but in actuality you may have a problem. This is good advice, if the problem is *not* a bad tank of gas. The knock is likely very real... But driving around for hundreds of miles for the ECU to learn away a bad tank of gas is a waste of time. Get rid of the crap fuel and reset. Troubleshoot further if the car continues to act up. LW's spec. B / YT / IG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subi_life Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 I'm gunna reset the Ecu I'll let everyone know how how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc6 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Reset and dump gas same time or reset and pray? I thought Cheveron was Top Tier? http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers/ I usually alternate between 3 stations Shell, BP and Costco. The Shell station I go to is near a BMW dealer so the 93 button has damage like the 87 on other gas station pumps. 2 Issues I may run into for 93 Top Tier station is *Off the beaten path and doesn't sell it much so it sits. *It's located in a neighborHOOD with 87 only no name chain and they lower the 87 price leaving 89/93 at an unreasonable price and it sits. *Bonus round You live in New Jersey and the attendant still pumped 87 when you and the fuel door clearly said 91/93. Luckily on my DD, enough knock will send it from 91 map to 87 map. 2005 Satin White Pearl Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Unlimited 5EAT (Project Car) 2019 Agate Black Ford Explorer XLT 4WD (DD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Do not reset the ECU. Once you have fuel with proper octane flowing again the ECU will put the timing back in small steps and IAM (DAM) will increment back up to 1.00 by itself. Sent from a device using some software. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subi_life Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 Ok so should I just go get some 93 octane? And if it is a little bit bad it will still meet the 91 oct requirements? And I haven't reset the Ecu just yet, thank god. I guess I'm gunna just drive it till it gets better or wait till something happens.. Only thing I can do now since I don't know what the problem could be, eigther bad gas or something else. Only time will tell I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subi_life Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 But will bad gas make it look like this???? The (DAM) dosent move from there but the (Fine Knock Learn) goes all the way to -3.50. I still don't even know what that means, if someone can fill me in on how that works http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s349/cameraman_05/Mobile%20Uploads/image_11.jpeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battelready Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I smell the smelly smell of a vac/boost leak. Look under the hood and see if any vacuum or boost lines are off. If you need help, look at this thread. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2005-2006-lgt-colored-vacuum-routing-diagram-143225.html I bought an auto be more involved in my uninvolvedness . 200k+ Club If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit. My high mileage turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subi_life Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 Just went woot on the freeway to pass someone and now it's at 0.375 now I'm getting scared! What dose this mean??? Will data logging tell me the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatentWagen Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Yes bad gas will do that. I saw my GF's car go from 1.000 to 0.000 DAM within a couple miles of filling up at a top tier gas station. They had just filled the tanks and we didn't know. Probably got sediment in there. Nobody ever said "reset your ECU and pray that it goes away"... the first step was to get the suspect gas out of the equation. And again, you really should be taking it easy (even if gas is not the culprit), rather than going "woot" LW's spec. B / YT / IG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 If you can, siphon the gas out of the car and use it in some poor POS that runs on 91 piss and likes it, refill with 93 from your regular trusted station. I guess in Cali the smog nazis have banned octane boosters, so in lieu of that you could drop a pint or so of methanol into the tank to a) increase average octane and b) absorb any water that might be in the system. There being a large negative trim in AF Learning 1 is a healthy trim in a 4th gen. If you had an air leak you'd have a positive number because the ECU would be adding more fuel to compensate. The positive 14.84 number is worrying but I have seen bad gas throw things off like that. Leaks from blown off hoses etc. do not fix themselves, so in that case you would not have come back to a healthy trim. Just drive the car like your grandma would (like, not in boost) until the bad gas is gone and you will see IAM (DAM) start to increment back up. Since you're soon into failsafe fuel territory (the stock ECU will go to a super rich fuel map at an IAM of 0.3500) you'll probably finish that tank of bad gas quickly if you can't siphon it. Do not 'woot', do not pass 'go', do not collect $200 until IAM starts going back up. The ECU will constantly be trying to put the missing timing back in, step by step, if it hears no further knock. First the FLKC values will increment from -3.50 or whatever up to zero and then into positive numbers. See the positive value 0.49? That's the ECU putting some timing back in. FLKC is a 5x7 table, so that is 35 cells where values are stored. What you're seeing are the single highest and lowest values. The positive values will creep higher before the negatives go back toward zero. After that, IAM will start to head back up and FLKC will be reset to zero. If this does not occur when you're sure all the bad fuel is gone, it's time to start checking for other issues. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnusonsubie Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Unfortunately being in California 93 is not readily available at all. I see that you are in the Nor Cal/ Bay Area. I am in the relative area as well and if you are still having this issue after you get through this current supposed "bad gas" tank and a tank of known good gas the problem still persists I'd be willing to help you search the engine for vacuum/boost leaks. As Latent said, you should not be going "woot" on the freeway. I know the on ramps in this area are unbelievably short and its difficult to stay out of boost especially with traffic all liking to slow down to 40 and instantly back up to 80 do your best to just take it slow and easy on this tank and the next tank. 2005 Vader Wagon Material Tests on Ringland Failure Piston I should have held off and purchased a wagon instead of the spec.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battelready Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 How much gas do you have left? I bought an auto be more involved in my uninvolvedness . 200k+ Club If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit. My high mileage turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phate Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 If you can, siphon the gas out of the car and use it in some poor POS that runs on 91 piss and likes it, refill with 93 from your regular trusted station. I guess in Cali the smog nazis have banned octane boosters, so in lieu of that you could drop a pint or so of methanol into the tank to a) increase average octane and b) absorb any water that might be in the system. There being a large negative trim in AF Learning 1 is a healthy trim in a 4th gen. If you had an air leak you'd have a positive number because the ECU would be adding more fuel to compensate. The positive 14.84 number is worrying but I have seen bad gas throw things off like that. Leaks from blown off hoses etc. do not fix themselves, so in that case you would not have come back to a healthy trim. Just drive the car like your grandma would (like, not in boost) until the bad gas is gone and you will see IAM (DAM) start to increment back up. Since you're soon into failsafe fuel territory (the stock ECU will go to a super rich fuel map at an IAM of 0.3500) you'll probably finish that tank of bad gas quickly if you can't siphon it. Do not 'woot', do not pass 'go', do not collect $200 until IAM starts going back up. The ECU will constantly be trying to put the missing timing back in, step by step, if it hears no further knock. First the FLKC values will increment from -3.50 or whatever up to zero and then into positive numbers. See the positive value 0.49? That's the ECU putting some timing back in. FLKC is a 5x7 table, so that is 35 cells where values are stored. What you're seeing are the single highest and lowest values. The positive values will creep higher before the negatives go back toward zero. After that, IAM will start to head back up and FLKC will be reset to zero. If this does not occur when you're sure all the bad fuel is gone, it's time to start checking for other issues. Toluene or Xylene are also solid choices for octane boosters. Should be available at a paint supply store. The ~$8 that a tiny bottle of octane booster would cost should get you a gallon of the stuff. Toluene is already found in pump gas, and has a stoich ratio somewhere in the mid-high 13's, so it should play nice with your tune. Most 100 octane race gas is something like 20-25% Toluene. Straight toluene is 110-115 octane. As far as safety is concerned, treat it like gasoline, that super-hazardous material that most people think absolutely nothing of. Don't inhale the fumes, they're bad for you but not much worse than gasoline fumes. It's very flammable (like gasoline). And it is a powerful solvent, so don't get it on your skin or anything that isn't made of either metal or fuel-safe plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsurge Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 AF Learning #1 >5.0 is a tell-tale sign that you have a vacuum leak. Check your intake tube for a tear as well as the T-fitting under the intercooler that goes into the back of the intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Again, I have seen LTFT go that far because of bad gas. Leaks do not fix themselves, especially hoses that have fallen or blown off. Checking is good, but don't expect to find a leak. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subi_life Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 Unfortunately being in California 93 is not readily available at all. I see that you are in the Nor Cal/ Bay Area. I am in the relative area as well and if you are still having this issue after you get through this current supposed "bad gas" tank and a tank of known good gas the problem still persists I'd be willing to help you search the engine for vacuum/boost leaks. As Latent said, you should not be going "woot" on the freeway. I know the on ramps in this area are unbelievably short and its difficult to stay out of boost especially with traffic all liking to slow down to 40 and instantly back up to 80 do your best to just take it slow and easy on this tank and the next tank. Yeah I'll definitely take you up on that man I've been Tryna find someone to help me out but all my friends are driving mustangs or cameros lol. And for everyone else I got about a quarter tank left because I haven't been really driving it around. So since my af1 is going positive that means I have a air leak? And to be honest I reset my Ecu and it went to 0.850 I started driving and it went back to 1.000 but still showing some fine knock around -2.30. I went woot again just to see if it was fixed and the dam dropped to 500...... I got scared so I took the whole tune off until I can have a empty tank and refill with good gas. I hope I did the rite thing ? But I think tomarrow I'll have fresh gas I. It. Gunna drive it around tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJuan Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 This happens to me from time to time. Most of the time it's bad gas, I'm currently running in "limp" mode because I filled up the other day from NOT my normal filling station and it went right into "limp" mode. As others have recommended, burn all the way through your fuel and fill up at your normal gas station and see if that helps. My wife's balls are delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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