BigT Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 hey Guys I dropped my car off at the shop today to get my CD player fixed and to get my intake installed. The guy just called me back and told me that I had the choice between the short ram and MAF intake. I'm assuming that they are both perrin, because they are an authorized perrin dealer. Can you guys help me decide? I'm not quite sure I understand the difference between the two, and the risks involved, ie running lean, and what are the consequences of running lean etc. I know you guys have a lot of opinions, so fire away. -T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Big MAF needs to be tuned for. The regular intake does not. You will want to run rich rather than lean. Lean=Knock, pre-detonation, ect ect ect. The Big MAF will lean you out too much (hence you need to tune for it according to Perrin). Go regular intake if you must have one. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDII Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Big MAF needs to be tuned for. The regular intake does not. +1 wait till you know what you want for future mods. Get an MAF and stage 1 or two at the same time. dont waste your money on a short ram and end up having to replace it later on. Need forum help? Private Message legGTLT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 or don't bother with the instake at all casue it's not really that helpful. spend the money on better things that are PROVEN to make power My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigT Posted September 27, 2005 Author Share Posted September 27, 2005 The problem I'm having is a warranty one. I can't really afford to void my warranty, and the service center said that since they are also a licensed perrin place any problems that arose they would cover. Pretty much the only three things I can do is intake, the drop in filter, and exhaust. I'd rather save my exhaust money and get rims and tires. AP is also out of the question because of future possibilities to check if the ecu has been reflashed. So, i'm stuck with intake and air filter for now. any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxerGT2.5 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 The problem I'm having is a warranty one. I can't really afford to void my warranty, and the service center said that since they are also a licensed perrin place any problems that arose they would cover. Pretty much the only three things I can do is intake, the drop in filter, and exhaust. I'd rather save my exhaust money and get rims and tires. AP is also out of the question because of future possibilities to check if the ecu has been reflashed. So, i'm stuck with intake and air filter for now. any ideas? STI Uppipe if they'll do it. Perrin lightened crank pulley. Or just go with the normal Perrin Intake. OBAMA......One Big Ass Mistake America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Perrin TMIC too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 no point in doing half that stuff if you're never gonna get engine managment My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedawgs Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I would hold off on the TMIC until stage 2. Updated my vBGarage: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rony Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 I would hold off on the TMIC until stage 2. /nod My Car vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I have just taken some logs with a short ram intake fitted, and was quite astounded by the results. The knock correction drops to -8 under full throttle and the exhaust temps go up to 1,700 deg F. Needless to say that it is going to be removed first thing tomorrow, but out of interest has anyone else taken logs with just an intake mod ? Also does anyone know what the recommended max exhaust temp is ? Thanks. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallispec Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I have just taken some logs with a short ram intake fitted, and was quite astounded by the results. The knock correction drops to -8 under full throttle and the exhaust temps go up to 1,700 deg F. Needless to say that it is going to be removed first thing tomorrow, but out of interest has anyone else taken logs with just an intake mod ? Also does anyone know what the recommended max exhaust temp is ? Thanks. did you have any baseline data logs taken prior to the intake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 did you have any baseline data logs taken prior to the intake? Yes, before the intake I only had about -3 KC and temps were 200 deg less. On the positive side I gained 0.5 psi boost, but thats not much to convince me to leave it on. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallispec Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Yes, before the intake I only had about -3 KC and temps were 200 deg less. On the positive side I gained 0.5 psi boost, but thats not much to convince me to leave it on. well, assuming your data logs are correct.. i think this sort of verifies a lot of peoples fears in getting an aftermarket intake without a custom tune.. Fuel mixture leans out, causing higher temps and pulled timing for knock correction. Possibly this is one of those things where the ECU needs to 'adjust' over a day or two to tweak some settings and things will level back out? You are running stage 1, AP, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 well, assuming your data logs are correct.. i think this sort of verifies a lot of peoples fears in getting an aftermarket intake without a custom tune.. Fuel mixture leans out, causing higher temps and pulled timing for knock correction. Possibly this is one of those things where the ECU needs to 'adjust' over a day or two to tweak some settings and things will level back out? You are running stage 1, AP, correct? Yes V1.15, I could leave it on for a few days and take it easy, the logs I took were at WOT in 3rd to redline, so its possible the ECU hasn't learnt to adjust yet. I must admit I was very sceptical about the prophets of doom when they talked about intakes, I'm glad I got the Tari logging software to see what exactly is going on. I strongly recommend anyone else with a Perrin, K&N or any type of intake to take some logs. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 you need better gas. -3KC is bad. I get +6 fairly often and never negative. My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Better than Sunoco 94 ? If it was available I would buy it ! Of course it could be a bad batch of fuel ? Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiener2 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 well, whatever the reason, -KC is bad My Mods List (Updated 8/22/17) 2005 Outback FMT Running on Electrons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scans007 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Yup...what everone said......^^ My take Big MAF = NEVER Short ram = only with custom tune and supporting mods that would make it necessary. I wanted to use the stock air box when creating my FMIC, but there's just no space to keep it, I have no choice but to go short ram..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 A custom tune is a must then. I will probably put the intake back on when I get to Stg.2 and then a tune to round it off. That's as far as I want to go. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Looks like the Cobb guys were telling the truth, after all (no duh! who'd think that they'd lie!), about these bolt-on aftermarket intakes -NOT- being compatible with their off-the-shelf AP maps. Before I went "Cobb Stage II" (I'm now at the equivalent level, only with an ECUTek dyno-tuned custom map instead of the CT AP), I fired off an e-mail to the Cobb tech guys, asking about compatibility of my beloved (I just love the sounds that it makes audible) Perrin Short Ram - they responded promptly (within a day) and courteously, saying that they strongly recommended against pairing their off-the-shelf maps with the Perrin - or any other aftermarket intake, for that matter. They recommended a Pro/StreetTune custom map for such an application. It'll be intereesting to see what their own in-development intake will do with the off-the-shelf AP maps. Their WRX one has been out for a month or two, now, and rumor has it that their LGTone should be available by/in December. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostjunkie Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I'll have to chime in and concur. I installed my Perrin short ram a week or so ago. This past weekend I started to notice that my car almost wanted to stall when coming to a stop. As I slowed the idle would drop really low, wander and stumble for a bit then pop back up to normal. I also noticed when accelerating hard on to the freeway that it just didn't seem to have the same pop as normal. This seems to jive with the pulled timing that PhilT found in his logs. Anyways, went back to the stock airbox with the Perrin panel today, reset the ECU and all is back to normal. Idle after decel is fine and it pulls more evenly and smoothly. I'm going to keep the intake for when I go to a FMIC and a retune, but for now stock is better. I know that some haven't had any problems, but it seems that my car doesn't like the intake with it's current tune (Harman Motive Ecutek flash). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mblock66 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 I think Allens comments are interesting as I have had the same thoughts. I knew that Cobb was coming out with their own short ram for the LGT very soon. And Christian told me that would be the only intake that they would recommend for the off the shelf AP maps. I thought....BS how could only THEIR intake be compatible. And intake isn't rocket science. Well it looks as though the short rams are in fact not compatible and I am willing to be that cobbs wouldn't be as well but they will test it with the AP maps and come out with a non cobb intake map and a with cobb intkae map. That way it is like you are tuned for it already. Just a guess but that would make sense to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Boostjunkie, The only time I noticed anything awry, while I was at stock EM, with the Perrin Short Ram was when I accidentally pulled off the filter element, and the vehicle stumbled for a second or so. This was at idle. Of course, I never tried the Perrin Short Ram with any form of off-the-shelf map or custom-map that wasn't tuned for it. Currently, with my custom ECUTek map, it seems to be doing plenty well enough. Maybe the reason also why most aftermarket intakes for the LGT seems to truly make a few horses is because it does work to lean the AFR out a bit. Perhaps safe on stock EM, with Scooby's tendency to shoot for "pig rich" from the factory, but definitely not so once any type of aftermarket EM, with off-the-shelf map, is used. ----- Matt, I'm inclined to agre with you regarding the separate maps - but from Cobb's site, it doesn't seem like they've done anything at all to set apart their own AP-compatible WRX intake. It looks to me like they've managed to somehow make the intake so as to work with the off-the-shelf AP maps, not the other way around. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1969 Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 how much louder is the car with the perrin short ram intake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.