5x100 to 5x114

[A_A_ron]

This rusty brown hole is just a tease for your drive shafts. More to come soon.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[A_A_ron]

Nutshell version, both front and rear are completely different. I'm too tired to make up drawings tonight. I made sure to get measurements for offset or depth as well as bearing diameter. Next theory is to pull bearings and press in new ones with the 5th gen mount and 6th gen or STI hub.

[mikeyvt]

Alright guys update. So AARon and I just got done talking. So going the 2015+ Legacy hubs route is a no go and swapping bearings is also a no go. After going over the 'Russian' conversion again we've come to the conclusion it can be done with GRB Sti parts.

- Front and Rear Hubs

- Front Knuckles

- Front Axles

 

You will need to either drill and grind the knuckle strut mount or if you are getting suspension you may be able to order the GRB Sti lower strut housing area. I am going to email Fortune Auto to see if we can order coilovers with the Legacy Top Hat but Sti lower housing. Will let you guys know what I find out.

[mikeyvt]

Only question we have right now is if the inside splines on the Sti axles are the same as the legacy. We know buy the photos and information out there the outside splines are all 27T and match.

[Zee199969]

Thanks for the effort A_A_ron and mikeyvt. It sounds like its gonna cost alot just to get 5x114.3 bolt pattern on our car. I wonder, would be possible to re-drill the 5th gen hub for this bolt pattern?

[A_A_ron]

It'd be too close to the edge I think. An adapter would be safer.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[A_A_ron]

I have an update. They 2010 STI front hub is much larger than our front knuckle. The general design looks very similar to the 6th gen legacy hub. This means that we will have to replace the knuckle (housing, axle) on the front. The thinker hub and different knuckle means the spline isn't long enough on the existing axle. Mikeyvt is looking into custom axles and I am talking to a subie shop about possible fitment of STI axles.

 

Bottom line: The only safe way to make this conversion will cost a bit of cash unless you are using the wheel spacer conversion.

Hubs | 400-800 | Depends on if you go aftermarket or OEM

Axle Housings | 400 | You could save money by going through a wrecker but watch out for front end accidents

Axles | 700-900 | Custom or STI if they work. This is low end. Multiply it by 2 or 3 if you're going to go crazy aftermarket.

Suspension | 100-1500 | In order for the axle housing and suspension to interface you need the bottom mount for the STI. If you are doing coil overs this can be customized. Fortune Auto sells the bottoms in pairs for a hundred bucks. I don't know about other coil over brands and ease of changing this or cost. If someone would be willing to explore what the stock STI front suspension looks like and if it could be swapped let me know (or tell me who to talk to).

Total | 1600-3600 | If you consider buying coil overs as a part of the cost it's closer to the higher number. I have not factored in any labor as all of this can be done in your garage if you're handy with a wrench and have friends willing to help.

 

The other option is to go with the bolt pattern conversion spacers. If you want to maintain your fitment you would want to add the width of the spacer to the offset of the wheel. If you bought wider wheels or want to push your wheels out a bit you would add less offset.

 

All things considered this is a pricey conversion for what little performance gain you might make. If that's not your justification then you are converting for looks and it's still rather expensive. That being said I think myself and mikeyvt are still going to pursue this and we will provide as much as we can about the conversion.

[FLlegacy]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to have someone cnc or machine a hub spindle with the STI lug spacing and diameter to fit ours instead of doing thousands of dollars in mods just to have a "bolt on" part. Then we can buy new hubs press out the spindle and press in the other set of spindles...voila! Or the vendor doing the work could do all the work and charge accordingly.

[A_A_ron]

If you have a vendor that is willing to do work this precise I'll talk to him.

Everything past this point is pure speculation.

I don't think making custom spindles is a good idea. I'm not sure how much Subaru spent on R&D making these hubs but I don't think a shop guy is going to turn and machine one to the same tolerances on a one off project. Secondly I am not sure about getting a bearing to custom specifications for both size (I have no clue what tolerances are needed and if they account for interference fit). Lastly you would need to order a thinner bearing to allow your custom hub to be narrower to accommodate the short axle spline on the Legacy. None of these compromises inspire confidence in the ability to handle the forces that this part would face personally.

If you have someone I could talk to I would try to explore this for you but it's hard to get actual dimensions and tolerances on these parts. I called subaru of america parts department and the gal said she could email engineering to see if they would be willing to email me drawings for the hubs but that was over a week ago. No word since. We would need these before a machinist even picks up a piece of stock steel.

[FLlegacy]

You are misunderstanding me, I mean to replicate our spindle but with a slightly larger hub face for the lug spacing, making everything else the same so we would use the same bearings and knuckle assembly. Just change the spindle.

 

http://wjbgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Wheel-Hub-Spindle-420x270.jpg

[A_A_ron]

I understand you now. Good thought. Who would you talk to?

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[A_A_ron]

Hey guys! I hope some of you are still following along. I know this is taking some long detours. I went to the dealership and got them to get me a 2010 STI hub and 2010 Legacy knuckle. This is a no go. The front hubs on the 08+ STIs is much beefier and reminded me of the 6th gen front hubs.

 

I also got a chance to chat with Jeff from Off the Line Performance out of Des Moines, Iowa. He has a 900 whp Legacy used for drags and he's looked into this conversion. He said they basically came to the same conclusion. If we want to do this and have it be structurally sound we need to replace the knuckle and probably get a custom axle too. I asked about the ability to switch out half of the hub and he said the issue lies with the rear face meeting up with the axle. I'm not sure if we could correct for that or where to start. If someone is an axle expert let's talk about what goes on there.

[thegiraffe]

Here is my 5x100 to 5x114.3 Journey:

 

 

5X114.3 Hub Conversion Parts and Notes through install.

Parts List: (this is a list of parts required to do the conversion not how I purchased the parts)

Notes:

Wheel Speed Sensors are the same, but the mounting is different in the front, just remove the plastic clip and Zip-Tie it to the STI Mounting Location.

Front Brake Line Mounts are close to the same location but need to be bent towards the caliper a bit because they were a little to tight from the strut to the caliper

Torque Specs – Know your torque specs working with Aluminum Calipers, Bleeders, Brake Fittings, Certain Suspension components and

 

 

Front:

STI Brembo 4 Piston Calipers

STI OEM Caliper Backing Plates (these were important to me to prevent rocks from getting on pads)

Rotors - Rockauto Raybestos 980356PER Rotors

Front Pads - Rockauto Brembo P54039N OEM Pads

Front Brake Lines - Stainless Steel Lines – Goodridge 24220 (kit is for whole car)

STI Front Knuckles & Wheel Bearings (Lower Ball Joint and Tie Rods are same as most of other Subaru’s)

Whiteline – KCA313 – Steering Bump Steer Assembly (I wanted to replace the ball joints and this kit was reasonable compared to OEM and gave me some extra benefits)

NOTE - STI Bolts are slightly longer, I would recommend using but this might not be required. These little differences are why I wanted to buy the parts off a wrecked car so that I would have as much STI components as possible.

2008-2014 STI Front Axles (Pair)

The STI axles are a little longer to accommodate the longer wheel bearings from the STI. The fit the same way as OEM into the front differential but beware, once removed transmission fluid will start to come out of the transmission so be fast and use a container to catch extra fluid.

2015 STI Struts, Springs and Top Hats

3D Printed Drill Jig with 10mm bushings to re-drill strut mount to widen bolt pattern

¾” Strut Spacer to compensate for 20mm drop in front suspension height, probably due to longer springs and travel for softer ride on the legacy model line. The spacer is my short term fix, I might design, machine and black hard coat a more elegant solution.

 

 

Rear:

STI Brembo 2 Piston Calipers

STI Caliper Backing Plates (these were important to me to prevent rocks from getting on pads)

Rotors - Rockauto Raybestos 980682PER Rotors

Rear Pads - Rockauto Brembo P56048N OEM Pads

Rear Brake Lines - Stainless Steel Lines – Goodridge 24220 (kit is for whole car)

STI Wheel Bearings

STI Bolts are slightly longer, I would recommend using but this might not be required. These little differences are why I wanted to buy the parts off a wrecked car so that I would have as much STI components as possible.

2015 STI Struts, Springs and Top Hats

The rear suspension appread to be identical to the STI, so same process as swapping out the regular suspension.

The E-Brake Situation

The Rear E-Brake is the same size on the STI and Legacy GT, you must fully disassemble the E-Brake in order the “swap” the rotor backing plate. This extra step is worth it living in Minnesota. Also this makes it easier to install the replacement bearing, clean the bearing housing and makes future services easier.

Mounting the Rear Wheel Bearing – The bolt pattern, rear axle splines and axle length are the same. Once the STI rear wheel bearings were mounted, I torqued them to spec and the axle nut went on nicely for the correct depth.

 

Parts List and Prices (oh boy here we go)

Pallet of 08-14 STI Brakes, Hubs and some misc parts $1500

STI Wheels and Tires (off Facebook marketplace) $750

Tires are almost new 245/40 R18 Continental DWS

Had a friend do the powder coating and clear coat

Whiteline – KCA313 – Steering Bump Steer Assembly $175

Rockauto Raybestos 980356PER Front Rotors (2x) 70.79 Each

Rockauto Raybestos 980682PER Rear Rotors (2x) 45.79 Each

Rockauto Brembo P54039N OEM Front Pads $43.79

Rockauto Brembo P56048N OEM Rear Pads $26.79

Brake Fluid – Wilwood 2906209 EXP 600 Plus – 20.25 per qt

Brake Lines – Goodridge 24220 Brake Lines $105.00

Gorilla Locking Lug Nuts 71623NBC $55.00

Total for Parts: 2908.69

Side Note for Parts: I have buyers for most of my original Legacy Parts. So that should offset the price of the swap quite a bit. My original plan was to try to re-use the brake from the pallet but they were just to corroded. Additionally I will probably need to do wheel bearings at some point but the noise is very minimal.

 

Custom 3D Printed Drill Jig to modify strut tower bolt spacing:

 

 

[FLlegacy]

Did the tophats from the legacy not fit the STI suspension at all? Otherwise it looks like you just bolted everything right up? That is very good to know, gets the hamster wheel in my head spinning a little. It would be fairly easy to get a complete STI conversion kit, and I have a local supplier for those parts.

[thegiraffe]

Did the tophats from the legacy not fit the STI suspension at all? Otherwise it looks like you just bolted everything right up? That is very good to know, gets the hamster wheel in my head spinning a little. It would be fairly easy to get a complete STI conversion kit, and I have a local supplier for those parts.

 

The Top Hat Geometery is slightly wider on the STI, the numbers are pretty nominal metric but my Solidworks is in inches. The Center Rubber Part is the same though. Here is the math i measured.

 

 

Does that answer your question?

[coco26]

I think he's asking if the Legacy tophat could be swapped onto the STI shock, meaning you wouldn't have to modify the bolt pattern.

 

If you say the center rubber part is the same, I would presume the center bushing is also the same, meaning it should work in theory. Granted I'm sure the bolt pattern was widened for a reason...

 

 

All of the above added to my "If I ever find a wrecked STI" list...

[thegiraffe]

I am not sure, I wouldn't be surprised if it worked. But I never tried swapping them.

[FLlegacy]

I am not sure, I wouldn't be surprised if it worked. But I never tried swapping them.

In theory we could swap the konitz inserts from our fronts into an sti strut housing as well. But yes I meant installing the legacy top hat onto the sti strut.

 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[thegiraffe]

Did the tophats from the legacy not fit the STI suspension at all? Otherwise it looks like you just bolted everything right up? That is very good to know, gets the hamster wheel in my head spinning a little. It would be fairly easy to get a complete STI conversion kit, and I have a local supplier for those parts.

 

In theory we could swap the konitz inserts from our fronts into an sti strut housing as well. But yes I meant installing the legacy top hat onto the sti strut.

 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

I would think this would be the cleanest solution to compensate for the suspension drop in the front because the front strut assembly seems to be 20mm shorter from the STI. I am not sure why though, if the mounting is different or maybe there is a component that changes the geometry I am not taking into account but swapping inserts should take care of that or at least give you some stealthy ways to compensate for the drop.

[Tronic]

Looks like way too much work to me, anyone tried the adapters ?

 

https://www.fastwrx.com/products/mach-v-5x100-to-5x114-bolt-pattern-adapters

 

Glad I like my factory 18inch wheels, although I have seen a lot of the latest WRX STi factory wheels for sale real cheap as either people hate the style or they are stolen !

[FLlegacy]

It isn't just about the wheels and hubs, it is more about having options especially with the rear end.

[thegiraffe]

It isn't just about the wheels and hubs, it is more about having options especially with the rear end.

 

FLlegacy you are exactly right. My car has a XRT tune and is mostly stock (performance wise) but I am planning a STI transmission swap and some other performance mods in the future. With the Suspension, Hub conversion, Brakes and Wheels / Tires the car just feels more confident and is driving like it was meant to make the power. Before the OEM suspension setup just lacked rigidity and confidence. By going to STI components it also opens up a whole new world of parts at lower cost. Most of my parts I buy used off Ebay or facebook marketplace and it just feels like I am building the car as a better platform.

[cww516]

Forgive me if this was covered before, but do we know what sort of cross-compatibility there is (or isn't) between the 6th-gen Legacy and STI suspension components, specifically the front shocks? We know Koni inserts work with 6th-gen housings, and the spring perches are higher than on the STI shocks- wouldn't be a fully bolt-on solution, and you're limited to the same selection of springs you would have had with the 5x100 components, but you wouldn't need top hat spacers, and you wouldn't have to worry about tires rubbing on the spring perches.