evanisonfire Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Hey guys sorry for the rookie question, I have done a little research on this but i figured i would ask the pros to be sure. took my car (05 LGT) in to the Subaru dealership the other day to troubleshoot a cylinder 1 misfire, turns out cylinder 1,3 and 4 were misfiring. had a compression test done, cylinder 2-3-4 were about 90PSI, cylinder 1 was about 82PSI. so clearly im in line for a rebuild soon. engine has just over 200KM on it, no mods other than catless up pipe my question to you all is, if i am going to be rebuilding the engine what should my parts list be comprised of?? i would like to get my car to a stage 2 at the end of this, i don't have a crazy HP aspirations for the car, just want to get it to comparable STI power. 6 months ago i replaced the timing belt, water pump, coolant hoses, and rebuilt the turbo. so i just want to know what parts i should get while im pulling the engine apart to get it to stage 2 and make the engine a bit more solid to prevent future catastrophe. any help would be appreciated!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 See my shopping list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanisonfire Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 great list!! but most of those things i don't need. my block is fine, turbo is fine, everything is fine just need to replace the piston rings as far as i know.. so i more or less just want to know what else i should replace while im in there (aside from seals and gaskets ofcourse) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 See my shopping list! It's in his list under extras.... My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanisonfire Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 It's in his list under extras.... that's my bad haha. as for the piston rings, where would you recommend I get those? and is that all I need to fix the ringland issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 great list!! but most of those things i don't need. my block is fine, turbo is fine, everything is fine just need to replace the piston rings as far as i know.. so i more or less just want to know what else i should replace while im in there (aside from seals and gaskets ofcourse) No, it's not. If you need new pistons and/or rings, you need a new block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted October 2, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 2, 2014 No, it's not. If you need new pistons and/or rings, you need a new block. That's not really true. Rings can simply wear out--rehone and new pistons should fix. Ringland damage can also be fixed with a bore and rehone plus new pistons (aftermarket at this point). Unless you're doing a built motor though, just grabbing a new and already assembled shortblock from Heuberger is probably cheapest for most--already assembled and brand new, for what, $1700 or so? "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanisonfire Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 That's not really true. Rings can simply wear out--rehone and new pistons should fix. Ringland damage can also be fixed with a bore and rehone plus new pistons (aftermarket at this point). Unless you're doing a built motor though, just grabbing a new and already assembled shortblock from Heuberger is probably cheapest for most--already assembled and brand new, for what, $1700 or so? so could I go with a built block from Heuberger and then just transfer over most of my parts? with a few new ones ofcourse since I got the engine out already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted October 2, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 2, 2014 No. A dealership is not going sell you a built block... "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 That's not really true. Rings can simply wear out--rehone and new pistons should fix. Ringland damage can also be fixed with a bore and rehone plus new pistons (aftermarket at this point). Unless you're doing a built motor though, just grabbing a new and already assembled shortblock from Heuberger is probably cheapest for most--already assembled and brand new, for what, $1700 or so? No. A dealership is not going sell you a built block... OP clearly doesn't know what's up -- Don't give him those kinds of options, yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanisonfire Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 No. A dealership is not going sell you a built block... you just said to get one from Heuberger, I didn't say anything about a dealership. you guys are confusing me haha. all I want to know is how to go about fixing/replacing my engine in the most cost effective way. I don't need a built block with forged internals or anything. im not looking for huge horsepower. I just want to fix my problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted October 2, 2014 Moderators Share Posted October 2, 2014 Please just read what I said... "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 you just said to get one from Heuberger, I didn't say anything about a dealership. you guys are confusing me haha. all I want to know is how to go about fixing/replacing my engine in the most cost effective way. I don't need a built block with forged internals or anything. im not looking for huge horsepower. I just want to fix my problem "Just" want to fix your problem? Sell your car and be done with it. The loss you'll take on it will be far less than what you'll have to spend to get it running again. Otherwise, you've got alot of reading to do - Check out the build threads, look at what alot of people, including myself, have done when we were right where you are now. It is NOT an easy process, by any means, even if you have a shop do the work for you. In your particular case, it sounds like your engine has lost compression. While you are (kinda) correct in assuming you need new piston rings, the case is likely to be that it needs much more. We suggested that you buy a new shortblock from Heuberger Motors (A Subaru dealership in Colorado Springs, CO), which is about as "drop-in" as you're gonna get in this case. There again, though, you will need much more than just a new shortblock -- gasket kit, new turbo inlet, etc, all of which can be found on my list, that I took the time to put together based on the best deals that I found, to help people, just like you, figure out what they need to buy, and how much it'll cost. Go forth, and become educated, my son! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 See my click here link for more info. Its cheaper to replace the short block with a new ej257 then rebuild your at a shop. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianEarlSpilner Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I think what they're getting at is you only have a couple good options. 1. If you replace the pistons and rings you still have crank/rods/bearings with over 200k. If you do all the work yourself you can save some $$$ but lose the peace of mind of having someone to blame when it goes again. But with what you'll spend to get that back up and going you will be awfully close to option 2. 2. Get the Heuberger short block for $1700 and then you have a brand new bottom end. Common wisdom says to rebuild engines to stay cost effective, but the cost of the shortblocks is so low it throws that out the window. You have to spend the money so do you want new or used parts in your engine? It's been stated ALL over this forum though... if you are looking for easy fixes and long term reliability this may be the wrong vehicle choice. That being said, whenever I get behind the wheel of my Subaru all is forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 It's been stated ALL over this forum though... if you are looking for easy fixes and long term reliability this may be the wrong vehicle choice. That being said, whenever I get behind the wheel of my Subaru all is forgiven. True, I'm not very happy with my wagon right now, I'm driving my Spec B but still miss the wagon. I have even tried convicing myself it may be time to sell the wagon while driving the Spec B... but that thought only last for a few minutes. The Spec is nice, but it's not the wagon. OP ready the threads, make a list, do it right the first time. My wagons shortblock has over 40,000 miles at 21psi and runs great. Hopefully my junk yard 5mt (97,000 miles) with Moore Performance Blast Plates will make the tranny run as good as the engine. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanisonfire Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 its looking like my best option is to rebuild with the euberger short block assembly, then just get all the new gaskets and inlets aswell/transfer over my existing parts. I figure itll all cost me $3500 ish said and done, which is less than the hit I would take trying to sell a car that has an engine on the way out. I love the car and I would like to drive it for about 2-3 more years until im in my career and can afford a new vehicle. I have all the proper tools and hoists to get the job done myself. from what ive been researching it looks like most parts can simply be transferred over from the old engine. my question is, should I have the heads looked at from a shop before swapping them over? a few people are saying they should be looked at and refurbished before being installed. thanks for the advice guys. as shitty of a job as it is ill probably give it a shot with the new short block option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTris Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 its looking like my best option is to rebuild with the euberger short block assembly, then just get all the new gaskets and inlets aswell/transfer over my existing parts. I figure itll all cost me $3500 ish said and done, which is less than the hit I would take trying to sell a car that has an engine on the way out. I love the car and I would like to drive it for about 2-3 more years until im in my career and can afford a new vehicle. I have all the proper tools and hoists to get the job done myself. from what ive been researching it looks like most parts can simply be transferred over from the old engine. my question is, should I have the heads looked at from a shop before swapping them over? a few people are saying they should be looked at and refurbished before being installed. thanks for the advice guys. as shitty of a job as it is ill probably give it a shot with the new short block option Absolutely yes! I assume you've read my Shopping List, so, prepare for that $400 figure and have them done. It's not an optional item unless they've already been done in the last 10k miles. Besides, you'll have the valve stem seals from the kit, anyway. Also, highly recommend spending the money on the [ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001D0MJKU/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1]ARP Head Studs[/ame]. Note to self: Add these to the shopping list, because I don't think I have yet! If you haven't yet, jump into the regional forums and find out where the locals take their cars. Ask around, see who can recommend a good machine shop that can competently rebuild Subaru heads. Not every machine shop can do them well. Do not Port and Polish while you're in there -- no discernible difference for the money, trust me. I would also recommend looking into having your oil pump rebuilt, or buying a new one. I'm not sure where, but, if you search (get used to searching -- not only will you need to, but, you'll learn a lot about what you're about to do!) there are kits to rebuild the oil pump that are pretty cheap, compared to buying a new one, though, $150 will get you another 10mm oil pump. Side note: I'm personally running the 11mm and have not seen any ill effects. If you don't know when the car has had a timing belt job done, I suggest doing one now. Use a new OEM water pump (Again, I'm running a Bosch, have experienced no ill effects), however, others also work. We don't suggest using the one that comes in the Gates kit, although, many have without issue. Gates PN - TCK328. Comes with everything you need, at about $150. Congrats on the choice to do this on your own! Subaru designed the EJ engines to be driveway mechanic friendly, and it's great to see drivers like you, literally carrying on this Legacy! Granted, this is quite an undertaking, however, I can promise you that it will be the one of the most rewarding experiences. Plus, you get the satisfaction (and street cred) of having done your own work. You'd be surprised how many guys (mostly "kids") here pay for their mods, then pay to have them installed. Take a look at the build threads, and then, of course, start your own. We'll get to know each other, (You, Us) and you'll have a place to not only have all your questions anwered along the way, but also have a documented build that you can keep us all updated, and look back on when you're done. As an added bonus, build threads are one of the best ways to experience the community here -- Simple Q&A and "Help!" threads rarely keep our interest long enough to get a feel for the user and really welcome them to the fold, whereas build threads do that just about every time. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evanisonfire Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Absolutely yes! I assume you've read my Shopping List, so, prepare for that $400 figure and have them done. It's not an optional item unless they've already been done in the last 10k miles. Besides, you'll have the valve stem seals from the kit, anyway. Also, highly recommend spending the money on the ARP Head Studs. Note to self: Add these to the shopping list, because I don't think I have yet! If you haven't yet, jump into the regional forums and find out where the locals take their cars. Ask around, see who can recommend a good machine shop that can competently rebuild Subaru heads. Not every machine shop can do them well. Do not Port and Polish while you're in there -- no discernible difference for the money, trust me. I would also recommend looking into having your oil pump rebuilt, or buying a new one. I'm not sure where, but, if you search (get used to searching -- not only will you need to, but, you'll learn a lot about what you're about to do!) there are kits to rebuild the oil pump that are pretty cheap, compared to buying a new one, though, $150 will get you another 10mm oil pump. Side note: I'm personally running the 11mm and have not seen any ill effects. If you don't know when the car has had a timing belt job done, I suggest doing one now. Use a new OEM water pump (Again, I'm running a Bosch, have experienced no ill effects), however, others also work. We don't suggest using the one that comes in the Gates kit, although, many have without issue. Gates PN - TCK328. Comes with everything you need, at about $150. Congrats on the choice to do this on your own! Subaru designed the EJ engines to be driveway mechanic friendly, and it's great to see drivers like you, literally carrying on this Legacy! Granted, this is quite an undertaking, however, I can promise you that it will be the one of the most rewarding experiences. Plus, you get the satisfaction (and street cred) of having done your own work. You'd be surprised how many guys (mostly "kids") here pay for their mods, then pay to have them installed. Take a look at the build threads, and then, of course, start your own. We'll get to know each other, (You, Us) and you'll have a place to not only have all your questions anwered along the way, but also have a documented build that you can keep us all updated, and look back on when you're done. As an added bonus, build threads are one of the best ways to experience the community here -- Simple Q&A and "Help!" threads rarely keep our interest long enough to get a feel for the user and really welcome them to the fold, whereas build threads do that just about every time. Good Luck! Awesome thanks for the help!!! just this past winter I did timing belt, water pump, coolant hoses, rebuilt the turbo. so all that should be good to transfer over. ill start making a parts list and ordering parts soon! thanks again for the help. ill start a build thread so all you subie pros can help a bro out haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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