What turbo?

[BarManBean]

Starting to feel that I should really just pull the trigger on a turbo. Background mods:

 

-Stage 2 blah blah blah w/ EBCS

-DW65c is installed

 

Parts already on the shelf (or on the way):

-DW 740cc injectors

-New samco inlet

-IP&T oil line

-Various turbo gaskets

-TGV deletes

 

I think that's it.

 

I was always thinking vf52 or 16g, but I'm thinking about going a bit bigger. I have fuel mods lined up, so why not use them? And I think that with the TGV deletes and possibly adding some PnP'ed manifolds that the spool might not be too much of an issue if I stay smaller than a 20g (or similar)--and I'll be sticking with a TMIC.

 

So, BNR18g? What else might be along those lines? Anything ball-bearing that's out there and worth the cost? What am I missing?

 

Please discuss

 

*Oh, and there's a spare shortblock in the garage so I'm a bit more inclined to go a bit bigger.

[Gex]

Hta68 or 16 gxtr or billet wheel vf52 or Avo 380 or 18gxtr or dom 1.5... So many choices. My vote is the hta68 .

[BarManBean]

Oh, and I'm on pump gas, 93. E85 not really available here

[kzr750r1]

Do you want to go rotated? Sounds like your already leaning no?

Usable numbers have been pulled off both VF52 and 16G, especially with the added fuel mods.

[BarManBean]

Do you want to go rotated? Sounds like your already leaning no?

Usable numbers have been pulled off both VF52 and 16G, especially with the added fuel mods.

 

I haven't even considered going rotated, haven't even researched it. Don't know what is involved or even what the benefits are. I probably should, but I don't

 

In general though, don't you go rotated when you can't meet your power goals otherwise? I don't think I'm in that situation...

[Flinkly]

What are your goals? I'd go twinscroll if I had money to "waste".

 

I went billet vf52 with ETT. Mostly due to where in the power band I use power. Can mate a p25 turbine housing to a 52 for twinscroll. Or multiple ball bearing options.

 

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[BarManBean]

What are your goals? I'd go twinscroll if I had money to "waste". Went billet vf52 with ETT instead. Can mate a p25 twinscroll housing to a 52 for twinscroll. Or multiple ball bearing options.

 

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I don't have money to "waste"

 

Never heard of anyone using ETT--who built your turbo?

 

My goal is a fun car to drive. I know I would enjoy a 16g/similar around town because, well, it's around town. That said, I typically drive my car like an old man and only get on it when I feel like it, so maybe being out of boost a lot of the time wouldn't be so bad if the return is greater when I *AM* on boost. I guess that's why I'm considering different options.

 

If I had to put a number on paper I think I'd like to be between 300-350AWHP--and yes, I know that's a pretty big range.

[SBT]

Talk to JDMChizad about his TS build - if I were starting to build a parts list again, that's the route I'd go.

 

Right now, I'm going BNR 68HTA w/upgraded actuator, behind a KB Holy Header, DW65C and 850 SFIs, JDM TGV deletes, and the PW TMIC, with a pro-tune. I've finally decided (I think) not to go with my WBR 500 WHP FMIC and just stay TMIC.

 

Everything is on hold until I get the KBHH Swaintech'd. Then it's game-on.

 

If you're thinking about the 16G, or even the 18G/VF52, then you've got everything you'd need. P&P or ELH would really help, but not necessary.

 

And, IMO, I reserve rotated for the "go really big, or go home" situations where you're hard-tracking/racing the car.

[Flinkly]

Sounds like my driving!

 

Wrapping, coating and twinscroll reduce lag (increases efficiency), but you can go too far and create a situation where boost is "always" knocking (ready, not engine knock )

 

ETT I think is pretty run-of-the-mill for any billet compressor wheel. So 16g-20g. "Adding" ETT to a "stock" wheel/turbo widens the map (faster boost, higher top end power), so take it if ya can get it.

 

6starspeed rebuilt turbo here.

 

Thought of getting stock jdm sti or tomei twinscroll headers (800), plus the p25 turbine housing(250). Requires new downpipe too(500). Adds up fast. Ceramic coating and dei wrap all around (300ish).

 

Planning next before I finish my current tuning...

 

Think I'll hold off to see if Subaru will do a 2.0 DIT Turbo outback mated to a 6 speed. I can still wish.

 

 

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[BarManBean]

ELH are moderately appealing for the easy / balance of tuning all the cylinders and also because I don't think I'll ever find aftermarket mufflers that are suitable so "sound" won't likely be too big of an issue.

 

This twin scroll stuff...I'll obviously do some googling, but can someone educate me here? I thought adding a TS setup was a huge affair? Not that I'm opposed to that, but what's the investment (time/parts/labor) and whats the return/benefit?

[BarManBean]

Sounds like my driving!

 

Wrapping, coating and twinscroll reduce lag (increases efficiency), but you can go too far and create a situation where boost is "always" knocking (ready, not engine knock ).

 

ETT I think is pretty run-of-the-mill for any billet compressor wheel. So 16g-20g. "Adding" ETT to a "stock" wheel/turbo widens the map (faster boost, higher top end power), so take it if ya can get it.

 

6starspeed rebuilt ihi turbo here. Thought of getting stock jdm sti or tomei twinscroll headers, plus the p25 turbine housing. Requires new downpipe too. Adds up fast. Ceramic coating and dei wrap all around.

 

Planning next before I finish my tuning...

 

Think I'll hold off to see if Subaru will do a 2.0 DIT Turbo outback mated to a 6 speed. I can still wish.

 

 

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For only having 37 posts, I like you a lot^^^

 

I would also be holding out for the 6mt wagon (OB or LGT would be fine!), but I just threw a 6mt in my OBXT, so I'm gonna stick with this for a while

[Flinkly]

Oh man. I wish I had the funds for a 6 speed with specb gears. Plus a twinscroll setup and sti bbs silver wheels.

 

Going to have to be content with 300 awhp at 27 mpg.

 

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[BarManBean]

Oh man. I wish I had the funds for a 6 speed with specb gears. Plus a twinscroll setup and sti bbs silver wheels.

 

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spec.b 6mt: check

BBS wheels (not silver tho): check

 

twinscroll: not so much

[Flinkly]

Oh, I know about your bbs wheels. Missed the memo on your 6speed though.

 

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[Nrw]

You have the injector to run a hta68/20g comfortably.

 

That being said I love my vf52, can't wait to see how it is with the 1.5scroll elh header. I do mostly backroad and city driving with the car so making a boat load up top isn't for me. A 16g would have a similar powerband.

[seanyb505]

Don't you have the 16g on the shelf already?

 

I'm thinking through the same questions/parts list right now for a future build. Reading through your goals it sounds like we're looking for the same end result - just a fun car and not a track monster. What keeps me going bigger than something 16 sized is the thought of accelerated wear. I'll be building close to stock on the internal side of things, so I don't want to push the whole operation to absolute limit.

 

At the end of the day I'd like a worry free engine that will be able to run another 50-100k, and for me pushing it to the limit won't help that.

[hobo2701]

with my hta68 im at the 330whp range with full boost coming on around 3500 at 25psi. and is a very linear feel to it. very easy to stay outta boost when wanted and im on pump 93. personally im looking to get a little more with a rotated garret or BG efr but expexct to spend 3-5 depending on TS or even just the rotated setup. i know the blouch 1.5 is a very popular turbo for that whp range and they are a great company. the vf52 also a great midsize turbo. i guess the big thing is how much psi u wanna run and what your day to day goals are. sounds like u have all the needed stuff to go big. not sure if u have forged pistons or not but if u do go more than an 18g i would def recomend that to be on the safer side. but with your new 6speed swap u would be set for almost anything. the garret gtx28 or 3071 might be the best quality one next to the blouch. so many options really just a matter of how deep your wallets are.

[hobo2701]

full race has a deal on a BorgWarner S300SX FMW twinscroll 0.91 a/r for 650 used for 3 weeks. thing might be little over kill though but its a hell of a price. its in the garage sale section

[Flinkly]

hmm, just read up on this 1.5 scroll ELH header. twinscroll header with a 2-into-1 uppipe.

 

so lets put some numbers on this (TS):

 

• Rebuilt VF52 (or VF36) with P25 housing - $1k
  
• ELH header and uppipe for TS - $500
  
• JDM downpipe - maybe $500? (haven't found one I like...)
  
• ceramic coating for DP - $150
  
• ceramic coating for turbine housing - $50
  
• ceramic coating for headers and uppipe - $150 maybe?
  
• DEI Ti Wrap for headers, up, down - $125 maybe?
  
• new AVO TMIC - $650
  

- 3k ish total? I assume you can do all the work.

 

the VF52 has the benefit of utilizing "normal" LGT TMIC fitment, but if you wanted a PW TMIC, a VF36 would be an alternative choice. price for a VF52 is a little better (for what you get).

 

I've found that shipping my parts to Grimmspeed for coating is cheaper than the local businesses. they use Tech Line Turbo X. they don't list this seperate on the site.

 

100 ft of wrap was enough for my stock parts, but you'd probably need more for the ELH, 150 ft of 2 inch.

 

the ELH header from Tomei is nice (# 414001), but the same warehouse makes the same pipes for a few names, so if you know where to look, the $500 dollar "deals" on ebay are the same thing without the tomei name.

 

oh, and ETT stands for extended tip technology. it's just making the blades as big as they can be within the housing, instead of ending short like on most OEM blades. sorry for the cryptic terminology. Changing from OEM to ETT creates boost a little faster, adds a little extra CFM up top, but also moves you from a "heavy" OEM cast wheel to a light machined billet wheel.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/extended-tip-compressor-wheel-215208.html

 

http://6starspeed.com/twsc08wrx05l.html

 

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/efr_set-from_top-menu/efr_index_expreme_rset.html

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&vxp=mtr&item=181287117378

 

DO IT!

 

i'll just live vicariously through your build. it'd be about $1.75k for me to upgrade to this level. minus the bbs wheels and 6 speed.

[Flinkly]

oh, and a new tune. forgot about that. ~200 for an e-tune through cryo or someone, or 400+ for a dyno tune.

[Gex]

I think Dave already tunes for him. I would try to find the best spooling 37-40lb minimum turbo. Probably about the biggest you can go on the injector. Lots of wrx/sti guys run the dom 1.5 up here with great results. HTA68 is still my vote though. Dave knows that turbo well.

[BarManBean]

hmm, just read up on this 1.5 scroll ELH header. twinscroll header with a 2-into-1 uppipe.

 

so lets put some numbers on this (TS):

 

• Rebuilt VF52 (or VF36) with P25 housing - $1k
  
• ELH header and uppipe for TS - $500
  
• JDM downpipe - maybe $500? (haven't found one I like...)
  
• ceramic coating for DP - $150
  
• ceramic coating for turbine housing - $50
  
• ceramic coating for headers and uppipe - $150 maybe?
  
• DEI Ti Wrap for headers, up, down - $125 maybe?
  
• new AVO TMIC - $650
  

- 3k ish total? I assume you can do all the work.

 

the VF52 has the benefit of utilizing "normal" LGT TMIC fitment, but if you wanted a PW TMIC, a VF36 would be an alternative choice. price for a VF52 is a little better (for what you get).

 

I've found that shipping my parts to Grimmspeed for coating is cheaper than the local businesses. they use Tech Line Turbo X. they don't list this seperate on the site.

 

100 ft of wrap was enough for my stock parts, but you'd probably need more for the ELH, 150 ft of 2 inch.

 

the ELH header from Tomei is nice (# 414001), but the same warehouse makes the same pipes for a few names, so if you know where to look, the $500 dollar "deals" on ebay are the same thing without the tomei name.

 

oh, and ETT stands for extended tip technology. it's just making the blades as big as they can be within the housing, instead of ending short like on most OEM blades. sorry for the cryptic terminology. Changing from OEM to ETT creates boost a little faster, adds a little extra CFM up top, but also moves you from a "heavy" OEM cast wheel to a light machined billet wheel.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/extended-tip-compressor-wheel-215208.html

 

http://6starspeed.com/twsc08wrx05l.html

 

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/efr_set-from_top-menu/efr_index_expreme_rset.html

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&vxp=mtr&item=181287117378

 

DO IT!

 

i'll just live vicariously through your build. it'd be about $1.75k for me to upgrade to this level. minus the bbs wheels and 6 speed.

 

I don't think the return there would be worth $3k, but maybe I'm wrong--need to do my own research on the TS setups that would be an option.

 

oh, and a new tune. forgot about that. ~200 for an e-tune through cryo or someone, or 400+ for a dyno tune.

 

I think Dave already tunes for him. I would try to find the best spooling 37-40lb minimum turbo. Probably about the biggest you can go on the injector. Lots of wrx/sti guys run the dom 1.5 up here with great results. HTA68 is still my vote though. Dave knows that turbo well.

 

Yup, Cryo is currently my tuner. I would consider a local dyno tune if I were to add in a large turbo, but then again I'm not terribly thrilled with any of the local tuners and if I go with something like an HTA68 there's no reason not to stick with Dave.

[Flinkly]

Yeah, TS was a little too rich for my blood in the end.

 

825 for a rebuilt vf52 with a billet wheel (41 cfm/min), then just coat and wrap the stock pipes. Oh, and a new tmic and tune. Saves you the 500 for headers, 250 for the TS housing, and 500 for a jdm downpipe.

 

The new Turbo engines are mated to a Honeywell twinscroll Turbo, so you can go TS when upgrading in the future.

 

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[SBT]

There's quite a bit involved with the newer Legacy, Impreza and Forester turbos. Oiling, oil scavenging, mounting, oil pan, cooling, etc., are pretty complex. Doable, but complex comparatively.

[Rester5350]

I'll just leave this here for you.

http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-turbos/borgwarner-efr-6758-turbo-2.html

 

And for your ts needs.

 

http://www.full-race.com/store/efr-turbos/borgwarner-efr-7064-turbo-2.html