laz Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I'm months away from 40 and would still choose the legacy. We had strong rains yesterday and the legacy always handles it like a champ. I never feel insecure in that car. --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckseleven Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I've driven a number of Accords and a handful of Subarus so I can weigh in some. I came from a 2008 Accord coupe with the V6 and 6 speed manual. It was plenty sporty in my opinion (one of the 10 quickest cars for under 30k back then). It sure would spin the tires like crazy from a dead stop, but that thing was a beast once it hooked up. Comparing that to my LGT, I can say I did feel more connected to the road in the Accord (and that MT was effing amazing). I felt the build quality of the Accord was just a slight bit better as well. It was decent in central NY snow with the OEM all seasons. I have extensive winter FWD experience and have no complaints about how that car performed in inclement weather. The Honda stability control kicked in quickly and effectively when needed. You get a lot of good things with the Legacy though. The H6s, as already stated, are very reliable. Our last one was well over a 100k miles and still didn't loose a drop of oil between oil changes. The AWD can be useful on almost all road conditions. Mileage will suffer some due to the AWD and lack of cylinder deactivation (which the Accord has in auto V6 form) but that feeling of confidence that you rarely have to worry about getting traction in slippery situations is very nice. I say if you are set on one of the two cars, thoroughly test drive both and decide for yourself. Some people here quickly lean one way or the other but I'm honestly on the fence. They both are good cars that have pros and cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone3 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I own both a Honda and a subaru. My honda isn't stock so I can't tell you that a stock honda is fun to drive. And also I still haven't driven my subaru yet!! But why not get a used car, use your mechanical skills to bring it up to par, make it's driving capabilities to your liking, and save you thousands ( I really mean thousands) of dollars of depreciation every year. Anyone who's taken accounting can tell you that if you're mechanically inclined there is no financial reason to buy new. Unless, you really want new, go for it. My opinion is go used and make it into what you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I own both a Honda and a subaru. My honda isn't stock so I can't tell you that a stock honda is fun to drive. And also I still haven't driven my subaru yet!! But why not get a used car, use your mechanical skills to bring it up to par, make it's driving capabilities to your liking, and save you thousands ( I really mean thousands) of dollars of depreciation every year. Anyone who's taken accounting can tell you that if you're mechanically inclined there is no financial reason to buy new. Unless, you really want new, go for it. My opinion is go used and make it into what you like. The only caveat to that is Time is Money. Some folks don't have the time to tinker around with their cars, that's where a new or near new car comes into play. Also if you have a family time can also be a crunch as well. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone3 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 The only caveat to that is Time is Money. Some folks don't have the time to tinker around with their cars, that's where a new or near new car comes into play. Also if you have a family time can also be a crunch as well. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Of course.. but I'm not just talking about cars that are 15 years and older. Many certified used cars can just be bought and require the basic services. Also, many come with warranties. It just comes with less depreciation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 The only caveat to that is Time is Money. Some folks don't have the time to tinker around with their cars, that's where a new or near new car comes into play. Also if you have a family time can also be a crunch as well. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Yup time is valuable especially when you have a family. Also as cars get older in snow climates where the roads are salted they become harder to work on as they get older. I have had 2 sometimes 3 cars for the last 19 years. I have learned that I want a reliable daily driver, because it takes time away from my other cars that I want to spend time on. (Same goes for mods, I only do minor mods if any at all to my DD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Yup time is valuable especially when you have a family. Also as cars get older in snow climates where the roads are salted they become harder to work on as they get older. I have had 2 sometimes 3 cars for the last 19 years. I have learned that I want a reliable daily driver, because it takes time away from my other cars that I want to spend time on. (Same goes for mods, I only do minor mods if any at all to my DD). Agreed, I have 2 DD and the most mods they get are tint and maybe tires. Better to save the $ for the weekend/track car -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiot4hire Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 There's no logical reason not to buy a honda. It rides great, gets awesome gas mileage Having said that my fiancé has a 2013 accord and her parents have a 2008 v6 accord. I absolutely hate driving both of them. They have zero character. Like AZP said it's just blah. I prefer my almost 10 year old lgt. Hondas are great cars for people that just want a nice car and never want to think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 There's no logical reason not to buy a honda. It rides great, gets awesome gas mileage Having said that my fiancé has a 2013 accord and her parents have a 2008 v6 accord. I absolutely hate driving both of them. They have zero character. Like AZP said it's just blah. I prefer my almost 10 year old lgt. Hondas are great cars for people that just want a nice car and never want to think about it. Honda and Toyota are what I would call "Appliances". Do the maintenance, drive them to take the kids to soccer practice, etc. As you said, character is what they lack out of the box. Heck a lot of H/T owners wouldn't even know what model they own. With that said, my home generator is a Honda! -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone3 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Honda and Toyota are what I would call "Appliances". Do the maintenance, drive them to take the kids to soccer practice, etc. As you said, character is what they lack out of the box. Heck a lot of H/T owners wouldn't even know what model they own. With that said, my home generator is a Honda! -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" I totally agree on them being appliances. My Si has quite a bit of subtle mods that make it a fun little FWD car to drive. But as you said, I can't see myself ever enjoying driving a bone stock one. I haven't driven my legacy yet, but I know it has character and should be quite pleasant to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Every manufacturer has reliability issues, some bigger than others (gm, ford, chrysler...I am talking about you). Look around and you will find some pretty serious issues with Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, BMW...that is the way the internet is, you can find 100s of pages with people complaining about a car or brand. That in no way accounts for the 1000s upon 1000s of owners who are completely satisfied with their respective purchase. The 5th gen legacy is, as I have heard, more rear biased than previous versions, but all h6 models were rear biased from the get go due to the VTD transmission 45/55 if memory serves. Subaru's awd has remained pretty consistent through the generations, although the newer versions are using more monitoring and nannies for safety purposes most of the hardware is pretty much the same. Having said that, I as a Subaru owner since 2007, having 3 different models of Subie will tell you that they all have their quirks that can be minorly annoying to majorly concerning. But even dealing with issues from seatbelt chimes to headgaskets, I wouldn't buy any other brand. Two reasons: 1. The drive is very stable and induces confidence especially in bad weather. 2. Safety-cars in general are always getting safer but Subaru has gone the extra mile well before many other automakers including passing roof strength tests before they were required to. If you go to subaruforester.org there is a thread dedicated to accidents, look through there and see what people driving foresters have walked away from, even when the vehicle was almost unrecognizable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone3 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I couldn't agree more. All manufacturers have their pros and cons. As someone who owns a Honda and a Subaru, I see it very clearly. For example, Honda's have a VERY common problem of losing oil from several locations of the engine. Also, Subaru EJ25 engines are known for blowing head gaskets. However, Honda makes cars that can be made fun to drive but also very economical. Subaru makes very stable and pleasant cars that are also very practical. All manufacturers and all things in life have pros and cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I couldn't agree more. All manufacturers have their pros and cons. As someone who owns a Honda and a Subaru, I see it very clearly. For example, Honda's have a VERY common problem of losing oil from several locations of the engine. Also, Subaru EJ25 engines are known for blowing head gaskets. However, Honda makes cars that can be made fun to drive but also very economical. Subaru makes very stable and pleasant cars that are also very practical. All manufacturers and all things in life have pros and cons. I haven't heard much about the ej25 blowing headgaskets, leaking yes of course I went through that fiasco with my forester that had the "revised" gaskets. Before any one claims it is semantics I will add that in my experience a "blown" headgasket would refer to the seal of the combustion chamber leaking compression, where a leaking gasket is simply leaking fluids while compression remains intact. I know early dohc ej25s had overheating issues stemming from leaking gaskets that have caused the gasket to "blow" but it was limited to a couple of model years and not what I would consider a fault of the entire ej25 line of engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I haven't heard much about the ej25 blowing headgaskets, leaking yes of course I went through that fiasco with my forester that had the "revised" gaskets. Before any one claims it is semantics I will add that in my experience a "blown" headgasket would refer to the seal of the combustion chamber leaking compression, where a leaking gasket is simply leaking fluids while compression remains intact. I know early dohc ej25s had overheating issues stemming from leaking gaskets that have caused the gasket to "blow" but it was limited to a couple of model years and not what I would consider a fault of the entire ej25 line of engines. It's pretty well documented that the NA EJ25 motors have a higher failure rate of the HGs than should be. The DOHC models had it worse than the SOHC ones but we do still see them on a fairly regular basis. The Subaru provided HG Conditioner works sometimes but other times you need to replace the gaskets. We generally will use the STi HGs as they are metal and haven't had a failure after that. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 It's pretty well documented that the NA EJ25 motors have a higher failure rate of the HGs than should be. The DOHC models had it worse than the SOHC ones but we do still see them on a fairly regular basis. The Subaru provided HG Conditioner works sometimes but other times you need to replace the gaskets. We generally will use the STi HGs as they are metal and haven't had a failure after that. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" I know what you are saying all too well, my response wasn't meant to belittle head gasket failures but to hi-light the difference between "blown" meaning your not making it to work today/this week, and leaking meaning I better keep an eye on the coolant and oil. I drove my forester for over two years with leaking gaskets before I decided to do the timing belt and gaskets at the same time. I am sure there are some phase II blocks that did have headgaskets blow due to overheating, but the majority suffered seepage from the gaskets at the mating surface with no other issues as long as the situation was monitored. Neither is an admirable situation, but the seepage can be maintained for a very long time. In my case I only added coolant once a year if that, I never had to add oil. Again I am sure you know better than me the state of subarus headgasket debacles I am merely restating what I have found for the benefit of those that would rely on information found in such a thread as this to make a decision on the reliability of the ej25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Honda and Toyota are what I would call "Appliances". Do the maintenance, drive them to take the kids to soccer practice, etc. As you said, character is what they lack out of the box. Heck a lot of H/T owners wouldn't even know what model they own. With that said, my home generator is a Honda! Just about every Subaru without a turbo is also an appliance, a weird one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian2.5GT Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 You've got to be kidding! Choose the LGT! It is fun to drive, fast, and the awd handling is more nimble, which makes it safer in my opinion. I drive 110 miles round trip to work and I'm very happy with my legacy's performance and reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoplightAssassin Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 You've got to be kidding! Choose the LGT! It is fun to drive, fast, and the awd handling is more nimble, which makes it safer in my opinion. I drive 110 miles round trip to work and I'm very happy with my legacy's performance and reliability. He's buying new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Just about every Subaru without a turbo is also an appliance, a weird one at that. I beg to differ, cars like a mazda, subaru, and a few others even in their blandest form are more exciting than a Camccord. The owners are also usually on a wider scale more interested in being connected to their cars. I've never met a Subaru owner who didn't know what make/model their car was. I've met a lot of Camccord owners who didn't even know the model and sometimes not even the make of their car. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssbtech Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 It's pretty well documented that the NA EJ25 motors have a higher failure rate of the HGs than should be. We generally will use the STi HGs as they are metal and haven't had a failure after that. What are the NA EJ25 head gaskets made of? The ones that came out of my Outback XT were a three-layer metal gasket, but we all know those fail too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZP Installs Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 What are the NA EJ25 head gaskets made of? The ones that came out of my Outback XT were a three-layer metal gasket, but we all know those fail too. The NA ones aren't metal, they are some kind of cardboard-ish material or fabric style ones. -Mike Paisan http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/153798190.jpg Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Enthusiasts since 2001. Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) |AIM: AZP Installs "Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Mine were metal core with some type of gasket material coating. The material was comingoff allowing gaps in the sealing surface. The theories on why and how the gaskets fail go from bad gaskets to poor grounding for the engine. The only one that seems to have a basis is that the acidity in the coolant reaches a point where it starts eating the adhesive from the gasket. But it is really all just speculation. Yours may have already been changed once I don't recall if any n/a engines came with mls gaskets. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.