"50-MPG" 06 Legacy GT CNG(Natural Gas) build"

[dahoseman]

I'm confused about what 21 mpg means on CNG. Miles per GALLON of CNG?

 

With gasoline, it makes sense. One gallon of gasoline poured into the tank will allow you to travel about 23 miles. It makes sense with ethanol also, and one gallon of ethanol will generally allow a car to travel ~20% less distance than a gallon of gasoline.

 

CNG is generally measured in cubic feet or pounds, in my experience (either volume or weight, in any case). I believe the GGE (Gasoline gallon equivalent) is 5.66lbs of CNG.

 

I think the only logical way to state your comparison to gasoline is with GGE's (pounds of CNG used for a given distance) or with the fuel cost per mile.

 

Edit: Also, what amount does your tank hold? What the range on a full tank of CNG?

[JmP6889928]

Cool stuff here. CNG is going to become our next fossil fuel as we have billions of cubic feet of it in the USA and it's sitting idle not doing anything.

 

Subscribed to this thread. Not for my LGT but for my other vehicles.

[xt2005bonbon]

I'm confused about what 21 mpg means on CNG. Miles per GALLON of CNG?

 

With gasoline, it makes sense. One gallon of gasoline poured into the tank will allow you to travel about 23 miles. It makes sense with ethanol also, and one gallon of ethanol will generally allow a car to travel ~20% less distance than a gallon of gasoline.

 

CNG is generally measured in cubic feet or pounds, in my experience (either volume or weight, in any case). I believe the GGE (Gasoline gallon equivalent) is 5.66lbs of CNG.

 

I think the only logical way to state your comparison to gasoline is with GGE's (pounds of CNG used for a given distance) or with the fuel cost per mile.

 

Edit: Also, what amount does your tank hold? What the range on a full tank of CNG?

 

 

Very good points. I did not even think of that when I asked about mpg figures.

[thisheregirafFe]

that is damn cool. only question is... with a huge tank of natural gas in the trunk... i mean... kaboom?

[spazlamhaslam]

I'm confused about what 21 mpg means on CNG. Miles per GALLON of CNG?

 

With gasoline, it makes sense. One gallon of gasoline poured into the tank will allow you to travel about 23 miles. It makes sense with ethanol also, and one gallon of ethanol will generally allow a car to travel ~20% less distance than a gallon of gasoline.

 

CNG is generally measured in cubic feet or pounds, in my experience (either volume or weight, in any case). I believe the GGE (Gasoline gallon equivalent) is 5.66lbs of CNG.

 

I think the only logical way to state your comparison to gasoline is with GGE's (pounds of CNG used for a given distance) or with the fuel cost per mile.

 

Edit: Also, what amount does your tank hold? What the range on a full tank of CNG?

 

Im aware of MPGGE, but Im trying to keep this thread and my replies simple as most who visit this thread don't have any experience with CNG lingo.

Perhaps I could have been a little more specific with xt2005bonbon,

So roughly 21 miles per gas gallon equivalent, or since where Im from CNG is half the price of Pump gas , I figure im paying the same as someone who has a 40-50 MPG car, depending on the way i drive of coarse. My tank is a 7.5 GGE, at a fast fill pump i can get about 6 GGE at 3600PSI, I haven't tested for range yet, but assume anywhere between 140-165 miles depending if I drive a constant 70mph.

[spazlamhaslam]

that is damn cool. only question is... with a huge tank of natural gas in the trunk... i mean... kaboom?

 

CNG tanks are incredibly safe, probably more safe than gasoline vehicles if the NVG is up to code. This video was made in the 1970's, and safety tech has come a long way since then. [ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-ExcJ7PaRc[/ame]

[xt2005bonbon]

So let me figure this out real quick:

from what I can see in Utah, you pay around 1.5$ per GGE. So 6x1.5=9$ . Then 165/9~19miles/$

Now say you do 23mpg with fuel. Assuming a price of 3$ per gallon. Then 23/3~8miles/$

 

So yeah, looks like equivalent to 50mpg with fuel. DAAAAAANG!

[tDoug60]

Love smelling natural gas. Reminds me of being in Lima Peru.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

[spazlamhaslam]

Love smelling natural gas. Reminds me of being in Lima Peru.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2

I know what you mean, it reminds me of 8th grade science class. not the exhaust though, that just smells like hot air.

[rob-2]

So let me figure this out real quick:

from what I can see in Utah, you pay around 1.5$ per GGE. So 6x1.5=9$ . Then 165/9~19miles/$

Now say you do 23mpg with fuel. Assuming a price of 3$ per gallon. Then 23/3~8miles/$

 

So yeah, looks like equivalent to 50mpg with fuel. DAAAAAANG!

 

It's pretty neat huh? I've always wanted to convert to a different fuel. Maybe I will when the family thing settles out.

[xt2005bonbon]

It's pretty neat huh? I've always wanted to convert to a different fuel. Maybe I will when the family thing settles out.

 

Yes it is! I'd actually be really tempted to do this mod.

[dahoseman]

alternative fuels are always fun/interesting to play around with, but they can be a pain. I had a Dodge diesel that I turned into a veggie oil burner with a parallel tank, fuel heater, and switches for various alternative oils. It worked OK, but I wouldn't do it again. The install was a lot more work than I had anticipated and it was a lot more difficult to obtain and refine the dirty oil than I had bargained for. I also realized that there has been a century of automotive engineering concentrating on gasoline or diesel storage/delivery/handling built into every car or truck for all seasons and conditions. Even the best of alternative fuel systems are "rigged" in comparison and do strange things in extreme temperatures and tend to have little glitches.

 

I think CNG is a lot more practical as an alternative fuel than veggie oil, but it still seems like it would be a pain at the moment, especially when traveling. Finding locations to fill up on a trip and showing other people what to do with your vehicle become sort of tedious. I would also worry about fuelling if your car is parked in -20F weather.

 

I do like the idea of CNG. Half the fuel cost per miles would be great. However, I think I would like to have a pretty large tank. The mods to my OBXT already limit my range to a little under 300miles and I really miss the 500 mile range from other vehicles.

[dahoseman]

spazlamhaslam, do you mind posting up the component list? I'm curious about what it would take to copy your build in terms of final cost and time cost.

 

Is there anything you would do differently if you were starting from scratch?

[JmP6889928]

I wonder if there is some source that would list all of the CNG refill stations throughout the US. That would be an excellent motivator for me. I know that I will never go E85 here because there is 1 station within about 60 miles of me that has it but at least I know that so I don't waste my time on it.

 

I'll do some searching and see what I can find and if I do find something good, I'll post it on here. Definitely interested in this mod for my other vehicles as it would really be cool for them. I'll leave the LGT as is.

[spazlamhaslam]

I wonder if there is some source that would list all of the CNG refill stations throughout the US. That would be an excellent motivator for me. I know that I will never go E85 here because there is 1 station within about 60 miles of me that has it but at least I know that so I don't waste my time on it.

 

I'll do some searching and see what I can find and if I do find something good, I'll post it on here. Definitely interested in this mod for my other vehicles as it would really be cool for them. I'll leave the LGT as is.

 

http://www.cngnow.com/stations/Pages/information.aspx

 

There is also an iPhone app called CNGnow, they are all over the place in utah.

[spazlamhaslam]

spazlamhaslam, do you mind posting up the component list? I'm curious about what it would take to copy your build in terms of final cost and time cost.

 

Is there anything you would do differently if you were starting from scratch?

 

Yeah for sure, ill be going down to the shop in a few days to pick up a bigger regulator, Ill see if I can get a picture of all the parts and ill see if I can get a list from them and ill label everything, everything really turned out exactly how I hoped except for the regulator not being powerful enough and me accidentally breaking the radiator, other than that I am completely happy with the build so far.

It took a lot more time than expected(probably a total of 70 hours), but it was worth the learning experience and plus I feel cool having that neat CNG sticker on my trunk. When Im completely done with the kit(when every single screw is screwed in) I will put together a price list and maybe even a DIY.

[theflystyle]

This is beautiful

[spazlamhaslam]

just put this in so I can monitor my fuel trims and natural gas pressure in the regulator while I drive, just temporary but if i decide to keep it than I will install N64 and play some Mario Kart or 007 goldeneye on it. That will likely be the most useful feature on the car.

[700watts]

cool

[JJr]

Great build, I started searching larger tanks then looked for stations and incentive's and found nothing

This is very cool. On the west coast Cal & Utah look like the leaders in CNG stations and incentives, Nevada, 1 station in Lost Wages, knocks me out for now, but I would assume this will become even more popular and less expensive in years to come with all or most states offering rebates.

[JonnyHustoN]

My friend always talked about doing this.. now after seeing it.. awesome.. Well done.

[rob-2]

alternative fuels are always fun/interesting to play around with, but they can be a pain. I had a Dodge diesel that I turned into a veggie oil burner with a parallel tank, fuel heater, and switches for various alternative oils. It worked OK, but I wouldn't do it again. The install was a lot more work than I had anticipated and it was a lot more difficult to obtain and refine the dirty oil than I had bargained for. I also realized that there has been a century of automotive engineering concentrating on gasoline or diesel storage/delivery/handling built into every car or truck for all seasons and conditions. Even the best of alternative fuel systems are "rigged" in comparison and do strange things in extreme temperatures and tend to have little glitches.

 

I think CNG is a lot more practical as an alternative fuel than veggie oil, but it still seems like it would be a pain at the moment, especially when traveling. Finding locations to fill up on a trip and showing other people what to do with your vehicle become sort of tedious. I would also worry about fuelling if your car is parked in -20F weather.

 

I do like the idea of CNG. Half the fuel cost per miles would be great. However, I think I would like to have a pretty large tank. The mods to my OBXT already limit my range to a little under 300miles and I really miss the 500 mile range from other vehicles.

 

Interesting story. Bio diesel is available in Europe.

 

I just don't have a habit of letting me drive my cars. Has always made me uncomfortable.

[dahoseman]

Interesting story. Bio diesel is available in Europe.

 

I just don't have a habit of letting me drive my cars. Has always made me uncomfortable.

 

There are a few locations in most major cities in the USA that have bio-diesel available already refined and ready to pour into the tank. It's not terribly environmentally friendly at the moment because it currently requires more fuel input to produce (grow/spray/irrigate/harvest/transport/refine) than it it outputs, but that's another story. With my system, I mostly ran on waste oils that were going to be dumped. I had to start on diesel and then switch to the parallel system manually later because the waste oils were too thick and wouldn't pump or burn until after being heated by coolant from the engine. The waste vegetable oils and greases from factories and restaurants tends to be thick, have heavy water content, heavy greases, food particulate matter, and various impurities that need to be 'refined' out, almost like a small petroleum refinery. Much like your arteries, precipitating greases and impurities will clog up your tubes and ruin your pumps/engine.

 

I like the sound of the CNG systems. I'd like to see a kit or complete list of supplies for converting an LGT or OBXT.

 

I don't like to let people touch my cars if possible either. However, when I have 2000 miles to travel, it's nice to let someone else drive while I sleep.

[stm25rs]

There are a few locations in most major cities in the USA that have bio-diesel available already refined and ready to pour into the tank. It's not terribly environmentally friendly at the moment because it currently requires more fuel input to produce (grow/spray/irrigate/harvest/transport/refine) than it it outputs, but that's another story. With my system, I mostly ran on waste oils that were going to be dumped. I had to start on diesel and then switch to the parallel system manually later because the waste oils were too thick and wouldn't pump or burn until after being heated by coolant from the engine. The waste vegetable oils and greases from factories and restaurants tends to be thick, have heavy water content, heavy greases, food particulate matter, and various impurities that need to be 'refined' out, almost like a small petroleum refinery. Much like your arteries, precipitating greases and impurities will clog up your tubes and ruin your pumps/engine.

 

I like the sound of the CNG systems. I'd like to see a kit or complete list of supplies for converting an LGT or OBXT.

 

I don't like to let people touch my cars if possible either. However, when I have 2000 miles to travel, it's nice to let someone else drive while I sleep.

 

You can buy or build bio-diesel processors in variety of capacities, which convert waste cooking oil to bio-diesel. I think that presents an interesting alternative to doing the vehicle conversion to run waste vegetable oil.

[dahoseman]

You can buy or build bio-diesel processors in variety of capacities, which convert waste cooking oil to bio-diesel. I think that presents an interesting alternative to doing the vehicle conversion to run waste vegetable oil.

 

As far as bio-diesel and SVO go, I did it both ways with my truck. I ended up with a centrifuge system to separate out water and different fat chains for the SVO. The conversion to biodiesel is a hell of a lot more work, requires barrels of chemicals, and just generally requires a lot more resources than a person might expect. It seems like a simple idea until after you get into it. Keep in mind that you're copying many of the processing steps found in a petroleum refinery, so you're essentially building a small oil refinery on your own dime.

 

I didn't have the time, a space big enough for the barrels or room mates willing to put up with oil everywhere. It was also getting hard to find places willing to hand out free waste oil. Many restaurants have contracts with disposal companies because the waste oil is a biological hazardous material to transport. The restaurants either want money for their oil or the disposal companies get in your face about stealing their business.

 

Also, the whole catch of biodiesel and veggie oil is that it is only environmentally friendly as long as it is waste oil that would otherwise be disposed of. As far as being a renewable resource, it yields slightly less fuel than it takes to produce (at least in the USA). If there was no fossil fuel input, biodiesel would not be able to sustain its own production, let alone produce an excess. Currently, I don't know of any biological fuels that could sustain their own production.

 

In the end, I found a local guy that had a junk yard with lots of space who processed veggie oil full time and sold it. He picked up free 1000gallon loads of oil from an industrial food plant, refined it, and sold it for $1/gallon. After doing it myself and seeing the commitment, I was quite happy to pay $1/gallon for oil that was ready to go.