twisty Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 im usually confused. the rare moments when im not is when im messing with my cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zues Marine Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 From post #1: New Outback is already a 5 speed. Old wrecked GT is auto. Pretty sure he meant his buddies are gonna help him swap the engine. I was confused too. ohhhhh I see now, I was thinking the OB was the donor.. lol i didnt look at the pics til now...its pretty obvious..whoops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 Thanks for all replies, sorry I caused confusion with my original post the OB is a five speed with a blown engine my biggest concern now is how the owner got it to its current position I want to make sure he didn't use a tow dolly I've just learned from another thread you can't tow a Subaru that way without disconnecting the rear drive shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 I'm sure I will be checking back here for support, I'm not 100% sure these kids can turn a wrench. My days of replacing engines are way behind me but I can supervise. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zues Marine Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 the Factory Service Manuals are in the stickies at the top of the page... they pretty much step-by-step you through 95% of any repairs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 In regards to the service manuals in the sticky the only thing I'm finding are diagrams and pictures without much technical descriptions I'm probably looking in the wrong spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 While we got the new outback home Saturday so far no work has started. This is getting done at a friend's garage we rented a auto transport trailer from u-haul didn't have any problem loading the outback but the LG T's from end is so screwed up we couldn't push it on the trailer. So I think we'll just pull that motor here transport it over to where the install will be done. This is my son's deal but I don't know they were supposed to have a lift at the garage and they don't looks like this will get done the old fashioned way jack stands cherry picker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 Since the linkage needs repaired on the outback it has the 5mt to you guys think it would be easier to go ahead and pull the engine and the transmission and then do the swaps and slide the engine and transmission back in. Thanks in advance for any advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 The engine and trans do not come out as a unit from the top without a lot of wrestling/cusssing/breaking stuff. . .trans is almost too tall to clear the crossmember. If you're dropping the crossmember and all (totally unnecessary), yeah, you can drop them out the bottom together but that's a lot more work. You can repair the linkage from underneath with the trans installed without a lot of difficulty. Drop the Y pipe and exhaust heat shield and you can reach everything. I do engine swaps in my driveway all the time with jack stands & cherry picker. Nothing to it. A lift would be nice, and yes, it's on my list, but in the meantime, I just spend some quality time on the creeper trying not to get antifreeze up my sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 Thanks for that reply, in the old days it was easier to pull the engine and the transmission. so you can get to these and separate the motor from the transmission with relative ease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Sometimes you have to persuade the trans and engine to separate. A putty knife or a screwdriver and a few whacks with a hammer and it will go. You may ding the bellhousing a bit but it won't hurt anything. Spray the mating surfaces with liberally with PB Blaster a day or so in advance if you can. I've had one slide right off, and the other took a few whacks, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Sometimes you have to persuade the trans and engine to separate. A putty knife or a screwdriver and a few whacks with a hammer and it will go. You may ding the bellhousing a bit but it won't hurt anything. Spray the mating surfaces with liberally with PB Blaster a day or so in advance if you so monkey I've had one slide right off, and the other took a few whacks, lol. So monkey, do you agree leaving the Trans in the car is the best route when replacing the motor? And thanks for your reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I've never pulled the trans and engine at the same time so it's easier for me. Plus it's a lot lighter that way. I know it's possible to pull both at the same time and probably not too bad for someone who has done it a time or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Back in the day on the larger American cars you never had much room to break the engine and transmission apart so usually it was easier pull them both. I have never pulled an engine out of a Subaru before so this will be a learning experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 As the engine is pretty far forward on a Subaru (forward of the front axle), there's plenty of room to work. . . on the right side, at least. Left side is a little crowded with the steering linkage but nothing too major. The bottom nut on the bellhousing on that side is a little awkward to reach but it's easy if you disconnect the left side axle (which is also easy). You can reach all the right side bolts/nuts from the top so no need to pull axle on that side. The problem with pulling the trans from the top is the diff pumpkin plus the bellhousing makes the trans pretty tall. Even with the engine out it's a tight fit trying to get a trans out from the top. Plus, you don't need to pull the trans. The shift linkage has to be disconnected from underneath the car to remove the trans, so if your goal is to rebuild that linkage, it's just a ton of extra work you're essentially doing for nothing. . unless you just like the smell of 90 wt. Pulling the engine from the AT car will be a little bit more of an adventure as the converter to flexplate bolts can only be accessed through a little plug below and to the right of the throttle body. If you have a 12mm flex head ratchet wrench you can reach them no problem. if not, might go ahead and pull the intake as that makes them gobs easier to reach. 2nd opinions are cool especially when dealing with yahoos on the internet, but trust me, I ain't just making this shit up. I've wrestled transmissions out the top of Subarus after the engine is already out and can tell you even then it's a struggle. No way I'd try to do it (again) with it attached to an engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 I drove this LGT for over a year before giving it to my son. The reason being I wanted him in a safe car that has proven to be a wise choice he walked away from a pretty nasty accident with only a scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 I will be supervising the engine install in the new outback, not actually new 500 bucks he will have to get his hands dirty and learn how to work before he drives his own car again. Everyone here I do appreciate your support and we'll have some new pictures soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 As the engine is pretty far forward on a Subaru (forward of the front axle), there's plenty of room to work. . . on the right side, at least. Left side is a little crowded with the steering linkage but nothing too major. The bottom nut on the bellhousing on that side is a little awkward to reach but it's easy if you disconnect the left side axle (which is also easy). You can reach all the right side bolts/nuts from the top so no need to pull axle on that side. The problem with pulling the trans from the top is the diff pumpkin plus the bellhousing makes the trans pretty tall. Even with the engine out it's a tight fit trying to get a trans out from the top. Plus, you don't need to pull the trans. The shift linkage has to be disconnected from underneath the car to remove the trans, so if your goal is to rebuild that linkage, it's just a ton of extra work you're essentially doing for nothing. . unless you just like the smell of 90 wt. Pulling the engine from the AT car will be a little bit more of an adventure as the converter to flexplate bolts can only be accessed through a little plug below and to the right of the throttle body. If you have a 12mm flex head ratchet wrench you can reach them no problem. if not, might go ahead and pull the intake as that makes them gobs easier to reach. 2nd opinions are cool especially when dealing with yahoos on the internet, but trust me, I ain't just making this shit up. I've wrestled transmissions out the top of Subarus after the engine is already out and can tell you even then it's a struggle. No way I'd try to do it (again) with it attached to an engine. Thanks for the tip on removing the engine from the auto transmission don't think that's in the Manual I haven't seen it yet if it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho subaru Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Well, I'm no expert, but I've pulled a lot of motors, both American and import. I've pulled two subaru motors in the last six months. I've only ever pulled one easier motor, that's a VW bug motor. Pulling the subaru motor by itself is definitely the way to go. As lockmedic stated, the lower left nut on the bell housing is the crux of the job. The last one I did, I got creative with two 3/8 12" extensions and a swivel and went in from underneath, because the time before that, I lost a bunch of skin off my forearm getting it from above. Not sure if it was mentioned above yet, but (IMO) you have to jack the transmission up when you pull the motor, this helps relieve some of the tension on the motor/bell housing connection while trying to get the motor mount studs to clear the crossmember. It was especially helpful with the manual trans to help clear the input shaft and motor mount studs without fight them both. Probably a good idea for support anyhow. Also, I think (again IMO) that you need to unbolt the pitch stopper rod also, it tends to fight the raising of the tranny. Again, maybe you don't need to do these steps, I'm not a subaru tech, but doing these makes it easier for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverone Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Thank you for your input!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zues Marine Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I did a complete 2.5/5mt swap without separating them, if you have a cherry picker pulling then together is easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Ok, here you go. . . bolt by bolt (print this out if you want): I start out underneath the car, mostly so I can work down there before I inevitably get antifreeze/ATF/fuel all over the place. Starting with the AT car: -pull the skid plate, if equipped -remove 6 14mm nuts on exhaust manifolds. -remove 2 14mm nuts securing motor mounts to crossmember -remove 14mm nut from LH lower engine to bellhousing stud<----this is a heck of a lot easier to reach if you pull the LH axle first. To remove the axle: knock the roll pin out at the trans end, on the outboard end either disconnect the strut from the spindle or pull the pinch bolt on the ball joint and prise the lower control arm/ball joint off the spindle. IF you live in the rust belt, this may not be possible. Either way, once the spindle is free from either the strut or LCA, slide the inboard end of the axle off the stub on the trans and drop it down. You don't have to completely remove the axle. -remove any other LH engine/trans bolts. Think there's only the bottom nut on that year. Starter will have a nut on the bottom of it, it can stay. Grab a catch pan -drain coolant from engine/rad. I usually just pull the tstat housing as it's 2 10mm bolts and drains the engine and rad. quickly. Once it's drained, reattach tstat housing and pull the lower hose. you'll need to pull the radiator soon. -pull trans cooler hoses. They'll leak a bit of ATF. I keep a few old spark plugs around and use them to plug the hoses. Bolts work fine too. -disconnect radiator fan electrical connections. Time to go topside You could drop the car down at this point but I usually just leave it up on stands for the duration. Your call. -disconnect battery (if you haven't done so already) -remove 12mm nut securing high current cable to alternator. Replace nut on alt so you don't lose it. -disconnect alt harness, AC compressor electrical connection, and move cable assembly to the left side of the car and out of the way. -Remove intake ducting. . . all of it right up to the throttle body. -Disconnect 3 fuel lines (technically 1 evap, 1 fuel, 1 return). the one with the fuel filter will be under some pressure. . . shouldn't spray out too much but be prepared. Pay attention to which hose goes where. It's somewhat intuitive but if you hook them up backwards (feed to return & vice-versa), you'll be scratching your head wondering why it won't run. -disconnect vac hose to brake booster. AC system already discharged? If so, pull the 2 refrigerant lines (2 12mm bolts) and swing them out of the way. If not: pull AC compressor belt. Remove 5 14mm bolts which attach AC compressor to bracket. Move compressor with hoses attached to the left side of the car and secure it. (let the scrapyard deal with the refrigerant---they should have a recovery machine). -remove top radiator hose -remove 2 radiator stays (12mm bolts). -remove radiator with fans attached. It should just lift straight out. -Drain power steering fluid, if you have the means to do so. I remove the screen from the reservoir and suck it out with a turkey baster (that is no longer used for basting turkeys--as I don't like the taste of ATF and I'm vegetarian anyway). -remove 14mm banjo bolt from PS pressure line. -remove a couple of 10mm bolts attaching PS hose bracket to intake. -slide spring clamp from PS oil return line back down the hose a bit. Slide hose off pump, move hoses out of the way. -Remove pitch stopper bolt (14mm) on trans bracket. Swing pitch stopper out of its bracket and set it aside. . .or completely remove it if you feel like doing superfluous work. -remove 14mm bolt from top of engine/bellhousing. it'll have a little sheetmetal bracket for a couple of wire harnesses underneath it, it kinda conceals the bolt. -disconnect 2 harnesses that attach body harness to engine harness -remove nut from lower engine/trans stud on RH side. yes, you can reach it from the top. -disconnect vac lines on RH side that run from engine to valves on RH strut tower. Think there's a wire harness strung over from the engine there too. . . probably wanna unhook that as well. -disconnect throttle cables (2). loosen 12mm nuts on each, thread the rearward nut all the way out to the end of the threaded sleeve, and pull cable back and let it slide out of the bracket on the groove on the front of each cable. Disconnect cable from throttle valve. -remove top starter bolt (14mm) which is also an engine/trans bolt. Should also have a ground attached to it. (starter can stay attached to the car) -disconnect manifold to body ground at rear of engine. -Disconnect heater hoses from engine. Should be 2 8mm wire clamps. OEM wire clamps are very good but tend to fall apart when removing them. Try not to lose any pieces if you're planning on reusing them. that's pretty much it except for the flexplate bolts. If you have a set of these: http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o610/twinturbolexus/EZREDRatchetingWrenches.jpg you don't need to pull the manifold. If you don't. . . you *might* be able to get them broke loose with a breaker bar and a short 12mm socket. that's how I used to do it before I got those wrenches. If you need to pull the manifold, it's not incredibly difficult, but some of the connectors are fun to reach. 4 12mm bolts on each head, plus a couple of coolant hoses on either side of the throttle body, and i think 6 harnesses (coolant temp and knock sensor at the back, PS pump, oil pressure, crank and cam sensor at the front). Once it's out of the way, getting to those bolts is easy. You will need to counterhold the crank as you break them loose. Crank pulley is a 7/8" (give or take). Converter bolts are 12mm. They will spin out by hand once you break them loose. There are 4 of them. Once all that's out of the way, raise the engine up to clear the mounts and start working it off the trans. The studs on bottom are about 2" long so it can take a bit of persuading to get them free. Helps to support the trans while you're wrestling with it. If you plan on saving the old slushbox, DO NOT SUPPORT THE TRANS BY THE PAN!!!. The diff 'bubble' is ok, but not the sheetmetal pan where the valve body lives. Should have it swinging pretty quickly. There are attachment points for a hoist on the alt/AC comp bracket and at the back of the engine on the opposite (RH) side. I use a nylon cargo strap with hooks. . . chain works great too. That's pretty much it. MT engine will come out in much the same way, except faster as there's no converter bolts to deal with, nor any trans cooler lines on the radiator. Plus you'll have more room to get at those bellhousing bolts/nuts. I'll write up the install later if need be (it's the reverse of removal). gotta get to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 2nd opinions are cool especially when dealing with yahoos on the internet, but trust me, I ain't just making this shit up. I've wrestled transmissions out the top of Subarus after the engine is already out and can tell you even then it's a struggle. No way I'd try to do it (again) with it attached to an engine. I did a complete 2.5/5mt swap without separating them, if you have a cherry picker pulling then together is easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Maybe Zeus did his inside a Tardis or I'm just an idiot who's trying to put a round peg in a square hole but yeah. . . I still say it's tight clearance. You ever tried it Monkey? Moreover, there's zero reason to pull the trans from this car. . . the trannies aren't getting swapped, just the engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Hell no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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