JmP6889928

Not really much to show in photos. Please PM me and I can help walk you through it. It's just a matter of getting the car up, wheels off, and then working the bleeder screws after you drain and refill the master cylinder. You can even just let it drip into a bucket without the hose if you want but if you have painted calipers or brackets, you'll want to use at least some kind of hose. I do drum brakes that way-just let it run down the backing plate and drip...LOL.

A little background before I begin because I'm sure that this will cause a stir and that's not my intent. I used to teach braking systems and ABS diagnosis for 4 years. There is a lot of different consensus on how to bleed brakes-pump and hold, vacuum, reverse bleeding, power bleeding. None of them I have read are incorrect however, there is possibility of causing other problems with the system by doing it some of these different ways. Most people don't have a power bleeder at home and with the newer ABS systems, these are not the best method anyway. Besides, usually power bleeders are filled with brake fluid that can be months old and most likely already contaminated and "wet". Vacuum bleeding is an excellent way, but again, most people don't own or have access to a good vacuum machine. A Mityvac is NOT a good vacuum machine although if you are competent with it, you can do vacuum bleeding, but it's not necessary to even use it in this method.

 

NOTE: Working on brakes should not be attempted unless you feel that you are competent in understanding the following instructions.

 

We've all been taught the "Pump it up, Hold it, Tell me when it's on the floor, OK, Pump it up again, Hold it again, tell me when it's on the floor", etc. method, and while this does, in fact, work for bleeding the system, it can cause problems that are not immediately apparent. This method pushes your master cylinder into zones that it's not used to being and can cause issues with the seals and cups inside because of corrosion and wear. Sooner or later down the road, and it doesn't always happen, but your master cylinder can fail from grit and corrosion that was loosened when you did your bleed. At that point, you are purchasing an expensive piece, having to do the labor, and then having to do the whole damn thing all over again.

 

So with that being said, here is the best way to bleed your brakes:

 

When bleeding your brakes, remember this: Gravity is your friend, unlike around our waistlines (I can attest to THAT fact unfortunately). It's very simple to bleed your brakes, remove the air, and never invade your master cylinder where it shouldn't be invaded.

 

I have taught this method for over 30 years and have never had a single issue with a system that is in good working order. If there are problems with your vehicle in the ABS controller, proportioning valve, lines, or calipers, then the vehicle needs to be repaired before attempting this method. This will NOT make up for worn parts such as pads, rotors, calipers, master cylinder, booster, etc.

 

Gravity bleeding is easily done by a single person, but the only downside is that it takes a bit longer to do and you MUST pay attention to your master cylinder and fluid level. Here's how:

 

Clean the outside of your master cylinder thoroughly around the cap area to make sure no dirt can enter when you remove the cap. Open your master cylinder and remove as much old fluid as you can from the reservoir. Remove the floating screen (if it's a Subaru) so you can reach all the way inside. I use a turkey baster that I have mounted/glued a piece of curved brake line in the tip so I can reach around through the side slots and get as much fluid out of the bottom reservoir as possible. Make sure you have wet rags around in case you spill some fluid when you are sucking it out. Wipe any spilled fluid up immediately with a wet rag and rinse the rag. Once you have it as empty as possible, fill it with the new fluid of your choice and reinstall the cap. ONLY use a NEW bottle-never one that's been sitting around half full, even if it's only a few months old, and put the cap back on between fills of the master cylinder. Make sure you have enough NEW fluid to completely flush your system-a 32 oz. bottle/can is a good size.

 

NOTE: NEVER USE DOT 5 SILICONE FLUID-IT IS NOT TO BE USED FOR ABS SYSTEMS. (If you have questions about this, PM me and I'll explain exactly why it doesn't work.)

 

Jack up the car at all 4 corners and place it on stands (if you have a hoist, even easier). Remove the wheels and break loose each of the bleeder screws and then check them to make sure that they are open and not rusted shut. If they are, use a piece of wire or drill bit to open the center and side holes and then reinsert back into your calipers or wheel cylinders.

 

NOTE: If you have bleeders that you think are going to break off, there are several methods you can use to loosen them. If you have access to an oxy/acetylene (cutting/welding, not a propane) torch, you can heat the caliper JUST right around the screw, red, not flowing metal red, but just red, and quench them with water. (DO NOT DO THIS WITH ALUMINUM CALIPERS). This will make them come loose easily. If you don't have a torch, soak them in PB for a day before you try to remove them. Find a socket that fits the bleeder but doesn't bottom all the way to the caliper. Put the socket on the screw over the nipple and tap the flat end of the socket lightly several times with a hammer (NOT A BFH-a small hammer) and then try to loosen it. It may take several times of trying and tapping, but be patient. This helps the PB penetrate and also loosens the threads with the shock. (You CAN do THIS with aluminum calipers). Once you have them loose, see above about making sure they are open.

 

Find some clear hose that will fit snugly on the nipple of the bleeder screw long enough to reach from the bleeder down into a container on the floor. Go-kart/atv/dirt bike fuel hose works perfectly. Put the hose over the bleeder screw nipple and place the open end into the container (clear container with graduations it is IDEAL so you can see how much fluid is coming through-a Ratio-Rite cup is perfect) and open the bleeder screw taking care to make sure that the hose stays pointed in the cup. It will take a minute but you will see fluid building up above the bleeder in the hose (only on the rear as the bleeder screws point straight up-the fronts flow quickly without a buildup in the hose) and then it will start to drip into the container. Remove the master cylinder cap and "LET 'ER DRIP" for a while-usually 10 minutes is a good number to use as a beginning but it may take as long as 15. You MUST maintain a constant vigil at your master cylinder to keep it full as it will slowly go down. DO NOT LET IT GET DOWN TO EVEN HALF FULL-JUST PAY ATTENTION AND KEEP THE DAMN THING FULL...LOL. Keep adding the fluid and once you see about 6 oz. in the clear container, then close the bleeder and move to the left rear. Refill the master cylinder and do exactly the same thing and look for about 6 oz. Move to the right front-6 oz., and the left front-6 oz.

 

Use just clean water to clean up any mess that you may have made and use a wet rag to wipe down the calipers to make sure that there is no fluid that leaked onto the paint (if they are painted). Put your floating screen back inside of the master cylinder, refill a final time, and install your master cylinder cap.

 

NOTE: Make SURE to install the master cylinder cap before completing the next step.

 

Leave the car on the stands and start it and gently push your brake pedal several times. You'll find that the pedal is engaged sooner and firmer.

 

In approximately an hour, this method will completely flush your entire system and replace all of the fluid with new. Reinstall the wheels, lower the car, check the lug nuts for torque, and then test drive the car. Check the master cylinder a final time after your test drive.

 

Enjoy ! ! !

 

I posted this in the 4th Gen by mistake. Better to have it in two places than no places, I suppose...LOL. Sorry about that.

I don't know about the 05 LGT wheels. Like I said they do fit 05-07 OBXT but not 08-09 OBXT. I think there is a pic earlier in this thread that shows the fit on the 5 spoke LGT and it shows it just barely clears. If you're wheels are that style then it will probably work. The OBXT wheels that clear are a similar style as well.

 

One way to get an idea is see how much clearance your wheel has with the stock caliper. If it's fairly close to the wheel then forget it. If you've got an inch or so of clearance then you have a chance. Remember those Wilwoods have pistons on the outside where the stock caliper does not.

 

Ahh....I see what you mean now. You're not talking about inside diameter of the wheel but width of the caliper possibly hitting on the back of the spokes of the wheel.

The 08-09 OBXT wheels don't even come close to clearing the Wilwoods. The 05-07 barely clear.

 

I bought some '04 STI BBS wheels off Nasioc for daily driving. I also got a set of Rotas for track use.

 

Are you sure the Wilwoods won't clear the OBXT wheels or the stock 05 LGT wheels? I had thought that earlier in the thread was a photo showing them inside of the LGT wheels. I'm asking because I honestly have no idea whether they will or not and that's good information if anyone wants to actually try this upgrade. The one thing to remember is that the calipers are fit to the stock rotors and in looking and and holding one in my hand, they seem to be reasonably low profile.

Boy....does word ever travel fast, and it's not even a word as of yet...LOL. I could check about a deal if we were to purchase maybe 20 calipers (10 sets) if there is enough interest.

 

When I do the upgrade, I'm going to do the 120-11135 with the 1.75" pistons. They are the same price as the 1.62" but larger pistons will obviously cool better. Also, I was told that you can get them in colors IF you want to pay a LOT more and WAIT a long time, so as Henry Ford said "You can have them in any damn color you want as long as it's black"....LOL

Looked at the Wilwoods today (in my hand) and they are truly sweet calipers. The weight savings will be unbelievable. I can get them for about $135 each (got a buddy....LOL). I'm DEFINITELY going to do this upgrade in the next 30 days or so.

So I've been running these Wilwoods at the track for a few track days (I think like 8). They will start to fade if you're going fast enough and they get really hot. My rotors always get micro cracks and I'm running DBA 4000 rotors.

 

In the back I just have LGT calipers. I've ben using Hawk DTC-60 pads at the track and they work pretty good.

 

The next thing I'm going to get is a set of brake ducts:

http://rooducts.randyzimmer.com/?page_id=34

 

I plan to take out my fog lights and let the holes be the route to the ducts. If all works out right I should be able to put the fog lights back in between track days, or I might just leave it like that full time, depends on how it looks.

 

Those are VERY cool (no pun intended...LOL). I wish they had more information on their website as to installation and showed a photo or two of them installed. Keep me up to date on these if you get them. I would be really interested in how they mount and how they work.

I think the ticket to maintain the balance would be to figure out which Wilwood would be the the correct size to correspond with the LGT rear rotor and then make the brackets for it. Of course, it would be absolutely great if you can find a 2 pot, but if it happens to be a 4 pot, then installing an adjustable proportioning valve like the ones that SSBC sells, would give you the ability to make sure your front and rear braking balance would be correct and also give a lot of adjustability if you run on the track or do AX.

The Wilwood caliper 120-11135 is exactly the same caliper body and is listed on their website (actually on Porterfield's website http://porterfield-brakes.com/manufacturers.php?manufId=3047) as using the same size rotor. The difference is this:

120-11132 has 1.62" pistons

120-11135 has 1.75" pistons

The 11135 is also available at Summit for the same price. I think that when I do this upgrade, I'm going to go with the larger piston size.