RobY Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 It seem as if our rear L-arm bushing is a big squishy tennis ball. I was under my car the other day investigating the possibility of running cusco underbraces with a cobb downpipe. Im taking a close look at the rear bushing and it kinda looks it has the torsional resistance of a tennis ball (sarcasm, but you know what I mean This dosent seem very good as a cusco underbrace will do absolutely nothing when it braces against a big rubbery ball thing. Id like this weaker link addressed... So... aftermarket get on it! Any takers... Heres a clue in on where to start. http://www.bimmerworld.com/html/3-series-delrin-control-arm-bushings.htm http://www.nexternal.com/bimmerworl/images/M3bearingcca_m.jpg this is a BMW M3 front control arm spherical bearing rear bushing replacement. It seems to be of a similar design concept as our front control arm. It shouldent be too hard to make a similar part for the legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 that's why the Cusco braces tie that end and anchors it to something more solid. Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 Im not sure I understand. The cusco underbrace ties together parts that are already harder than the bushing. Its not going to prevent deflection of the control arm which is attached ONLY by the bushing. The cusco brace does nothing to prevent movement between the control arm and the control arm mount. The brace reinforces the mount, but it seems as if thats not the weak link. The bushing seems an awful lot more squishy than the place that it is mounted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 I guess I should also ask how the clearance is down there and if it will fit with a 3 inch downpipe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 some of the mounts are floating around as well, at least the cusco braces are trying to isolate the movement down to just the squishy bushing. As for the 3" piping, the arms wont get in the way, the sway bar is a bigger concern. Keefe Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 Gotcha How does it compare stock vs braced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwood Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 some of the mounts are floating around as well, at least the cusco braces are trying to isolate the movement down to just the squishy bushing. As for the 3" piping, the arms wont get in the way, the sway bar is a bigger concern. Keefe will that greater isolation actually add stress there, or act to reinforce the front suspension as a whole? getting out of the legacy game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 When im torquing my wheels down the wheel moves over an inch. those bushings have to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted September 4, 2005 Author Share Posted September 4, 2005 yeah no kidding... Seems like subaru used a pretty soft rubber for that bushing. I bet once that peice gets replaced by a solid or at least a poly bushing our steering will be laser tight. The WRX also had a mushy rear transverse link mount, but seemingly not as mushy. Driving a car with solid rear transverse mount bushings was a huge diffrence. Precision is the word that I am looking for. You literally thought about where you had to be and the car would already be there. It did transmit alot more NVH than the rubber mount though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driggity Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 It did transmit alot more NVH than the rubber mount though. And that probably answers your original question. In trying to move the legacy up-market a bit Subaru was probably really trying to minimize NVH, especially anything that would get transmitted through the steering. Unfortunately for those of us that want a crisper feel that means tennis bars on the control arms. Even the Comfort bushings in the whiteline ALK that I had on my WRX did a good amount to remove some slop from the front end. The WRX was nice because the bushing and mount were easy to remove where as, if I remember correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), we'd have to press out the stock bushing on the Legacy. A two piece aftermarket bushing could make the reinstallation easier though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 will that greater isolation actually add stress there, or act to reinforce the front suspension as a whole? most likely (like all things) the stress will apply on the weakest link (in this case, probably add the stress closer to the hub and tires and things that are NOT braced. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 When im torquing my wheels down the wheel moves over an inch. those bushings have to go. Just torque the wheels while the car is still jacked but with the tire just touching the ground to prevent the tire from spinning.. you want the wheel to be nice and flush before letting the car down. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted September 8, 2005 Author Share Posted September 8, 2005 And that probably answers your original question. In trying to move the legacy up-market a bit Subaru was probably really trying to minimize NVH, especially anything that would get transmitted through the steering. Unfortunately for those of us that want a crisper feel that means tennis bars on the control arms. Even the Comfort bushings in the whiteline ALK that I had on my WRX did a good amount to remove some slop from the front end. The WRX was nice because the bushing and mount were easy to remove where as, if I remember correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong), we'd have to press out the stock bushing on the Legacy. A two piece aftermarket bushing could make the reinstallation easier though. True... If I ever think about doing this I would probably just buy aluminum L arm assemblies with the bushings already pressed in.... You HEAR ME AFTERMARKET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driggity Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 The Perrin PSRS for the Legacy was on display at SEMA and looks very similar in function to the Bimmerworld part you pictured. The stock bushing will have to be pressed out and the PSRS pressed back in to replace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 It would be pretty nice to get entire L-arm core assemblies to trade out. Or Even new aluminum assemblies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 The Perrin PSRS for the Legacy was on display at SEMA and looks very similar in function to the Bimmerworld part you pictured. The stock bushing will have to be pressed out and the PSRS pressed back in to replace it. this is for the front only, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 just for reference, here are the Cusco bars installed in the rear: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/RR.jpg http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/LR.jpg I remember seeing the squishy ball....where was it exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 Wrong end. Its the rear busing for the front L-arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 here? http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/PatagonianGT/LF.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driggity Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 It would be pretty nice to get entire L-arm core assemblies to trade out. Or Even new aluminum assemblies. Thats would be nice but I don't know if they plan on doing any sort of core swap program. I kind of doubt it. New aluminum assemblies would be very nice, but I doubt we'll see anything like it. There aren't even many aftermarket replacements available for the Impreza platform and I'm sure that the demand is much higher there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted November 11, 2005 Author Share Posted November 11, 2005 Sombody should get on this. All thats involved is milling 2 chunks of aluminum with a pilloball in the middle of it. Held together by bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driggity Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 Sombody should get on this. All thats involved is milling 2 chunks of aluminum with a pilloball in the middle of it. Held together by bolts. Well, the Perrin ones should be out soon. They've apparently been testing the setup for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrin Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Finally back from SEMA and yes the LGT PSRS is shipping! We have gotten very good results from the testers and not one complaint of NVH. Besides the removal of the "Tennis ball" we offset the bushing to add more caster. This give you about 5 total, which from stock is about 3 more degrees. So steering is improved, and general front end feel is far better. During sesign of the part we tested how much flex you can get and we got about .6" of flex! That is major toe out and toe in under braking, accelerating, and cornering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobY Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 Caster is 5 total? OEM spec is around 5.55 as per "vacation pix" and a recent alignment. How hard is this thing to install for the shadetree mechanic...02 - Wheel Alignment.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Caster is 5 total? OEM spec is around 5.55 as per "vacation pix" and a recent alignment. How hard is this thing to install for the shadetree mechanic... +1. Last-gen LGT is lower, around 3 degrees. I know because my dealer kept aligning my car to '04 specs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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