Frougy Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Ok so here's what's wrong with my 96 2.2 wagon L. Passenger cv axle is clicking when turning, water pump is leaking very badly. The car has 168k miles. My grandparents are selling their 96 outback legacy 2.5 with 154k miles for $1400. They replaced the timing belt, front coils, and brakes. I know the 2.5 have the head gasket issue and require premium fuel. So should I keep my 2.2 or should I buy the 2.5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankdeluxe Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Keep the 2.2 and fix it and buy the 2.5. Win win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorkchopSandwiches Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 For what it's worth, I believe the owners manual recommends 87 octane and there's really not much point in putting premium fuel in a stock EJ25 unless you have detonation issues. If their car has 154k on it, the headgaskets have probably already been replaced. Leaks usually show up around 80k. Do you know of any existing problems on the Outback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zues Marine Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Keep the 2.2 and fix it and buy the 2.5. Win win this really is the best option if youre even considering the outback... you can fix it up, learn a bunch of shit all on your own time since you have another DD... then you can sell it, freshly tuned up with 168k you could get $2500+ around here, easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Keep the 2.2 and fix it. Buy the Outback. Swap over some of it's goodies if you want them. Sell Outback. Those gaskets are close to going if they haven't already been replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frougy Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 The outback is in mint condition. I was wrong about the miles on the outback, it has 145k. And the 2.2 legacy also has bad inner and outter tie rods too. Also can I use the ignition coil on the legacy on the outback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 The outback is in mint condition. I was wrong about the miles on the outback, it has 145k. And the 2.2 legacy also has bad inner and outter tie rods too. Also can I use the ignition coil on the legacy on the outback? Tie rods are the least of your problems. Keep the 2.2 & buy the Outback & swap a 2.2 into it. Done deal. You can use the ignition coil from the legacy on the outback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frougy Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 So basically I can use the coil, plugs and wires from the legacy to the outback? Im gonna buy the outback, drive the legacy and replace the head gasket issue with the outback, once that is done im gonna drive the outback and replace the water pump in the legacy and sell the legacy. Thank you all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Tie rods are the least of your problems. Keep the 2.2 & buy the Outback & swap a 2.2 into it. Done deal. You can use the ignition coil from the legacy on the outback. Yep, alll of this. I redact what I said earlier since the OB is mint. So basically I can use the coil, plugs and wires from the legacy to the outback? Im gonna buy the outback, drive the legacy and replace the head gasket issue with the outback, once that is done im gonna drive the outback and replace the water pump in the legacy and sell the legacy. Thank you all! You can't use the wires. They are different. The coil is exactly the same and I see no reason the plugs wouldn't work. The 2.5 motor is not worth it IMHO. It's the worst motor ever made by Subaru. If you do keep that motor, make sure all the work is done the right way the first time. You will have problems otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frougy Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 How is the 2.5 the worst motor by subaru? Besides the head gasket and timing belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorkchopSandwiches Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 As your financial advisor, I recommend that you do not buy both and use one as a parts car or do big swaps between the two. Sell that 2.2 and fix whatever you think you can actually get a return on. Clean it cleaner than it's been since it was new. No matter the mechanical shape your car is in, you always stand a better chance when the car looks good. Sell the 2.2 and put the money toward paying off the 2.5 or if you can already pay in full, put the money toward making sure it will live a long and healthy life. 2.5 isn't a death sentence and I wouldn't tell you to swap in the 2.2 for easier maintenance. Headgaskets have probably already been taken care of if your grandparents really do keep it in mint condition. While it would be cool to put the best parts from both cars together into one, you're just going to be left with a ton of mechanical work to do + the price of incidental things you'll need to swap things over or fix things you break, and you'll also be left with an original car that was way worse than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHCEJ22E1 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 How is the 2.5 the worst motor by subaru? Besides the head gasket and timing belt Head gasket problems & rods that just can't make the cut under stressful situations. The 97-98 25D is weak sauce. I have had experience w/3 of them. The heads/intake manifold are the only things valuable off of that 25D. 96 25D also has the 48mm rods but seems a little tougher than the later variation yet still blows head gaskets. When Subaru built that engine, they only built it with one thing in mind. Torque. They did not care about anything else because neither did us Americans at the time. The EJ22 is a structurally & internally tougher engine. It wasn't until the Phase 2 EJ25 came out that attention to structure was addressed. There is a reason I shun the 2nd variation 25D block. It's internals may as well be dry sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 How is the 2.5 the worst motor by subaru? Besides the head gasket and timing belt Allll of what is below. The timing belts weren't a point of issue though. People just run on the original too long, too frequently. Head gasket problems & rods that just can't make the cut under stressful situations. The 97-98 25D is weak sauce. I have had experience w/3 of them. The heads/intake manifold are the only things valuable off of that 25D. 96 25D also has the 48mm rods but seems a little tougher than the later variation yet still blows head gaskets. When Subaru built that engine, they only built it with one thing in mind. Torque. They did not care about anything else because neither did us Americans at the time. The EJ22 is a structurally & internally tougher engine. It wasn't until the Phase 2 EJ25 came out that attention to structure was addressed. There is a reason I shun the 2nd variation 25D block. It's internals may as well be dry sticks. I've had experience with EVERY type of EJ25D made. From the 96, to the 97/98 to the 99. The 96 25D did seem like a stronger engine. It took over 4 months of overheating, and 3 months after the head gaskets were replaced before it spun a rod bearing. I was constantly told if you overheat the motor too many times, even though you replace the gaskets, you're going to have bearing problems. The motor did last longer than anyone expected though (and I had run it low on oil a few times). But, it still had the same problems. Although, there was NEVER any knocking (more than the little bit of wrist pin noise from the low oil levels) caused by the overheating or even for two and a half months after the gaskets were replaced. The 97/97 EJ25D is the same motor, but with different pistons and cylinder heads. There are some other differences, but not as significant. The 99 25D is a totally different beast. It actually has a 251 (Phase 2 2.5) short block with 25D pistons and top end. Both my 98 LGT and 98 Forester 25D motors, as well as my 25D/251 Outback motor, held up like shit to overheating. I noticed bearing noise after just a few times of overheating. Now, both of the 98 motors only overheated 5 times at the most. They ran just fine after that, but always had some wrist pin noise. Now, the 99 motor was BEYOND smooth when I first got the car. It was much smoother and quieter than any of the 96 to 98 25D motors. But, after it started overheating bearing noise developed and it only got worse. Now, I'm sure if the gaskets were replaced just after the overheating started or even before the bearing noise got a little bit worse, it would have held up for a quite some time. But, after sitting for quite some time, being driven back and forth to places to be stored, and then driven off road once (I took the thermostat out and it didn't overheat for quite some time. I then took it out to enjoy the car for a little while and it did fine until the end of the day when it just overheated constantly). After that, the bearing noise got a little worse. I still have the 96 25D short block and I will have the 99's short block out soon enough as well. Eventually, I am going to tear down those block to see if they are salvageable for a decent price. I'll also report all the damage I find. Either way, the 25D just doesn't hold up in the long run. I've got another 25D/251 from a 99 going into the 96 LGT. It'll be up and running soon. So, we'll see how long that lasts. It's never overheated but has had the head gaskets replaced as preventative maintenance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stang70Fastback Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Not sure which one I have in my '98, but my 25D is at 270k miles, with the only major work ever having been done to it being head gaskets and... uhhh... that's it? And the head gaskets were done only after two years of driving the thing with the temperature gauge pinned. Soooo not sure if I just have a magic 25D or what, but the thing seems damned near bullet-proof to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 you suck. that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvitaliy86 Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I would suggest to Keep the 2.2, fix it up, the problems you listed are easy to fix. Pick up the outback, fix it, sell it, make some $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frougy Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Just bought the outback.couple days ago. So far its ok. Except when I turn on the car the AT TEMP OIL light flashes 16 times, it binds under sharp turns, jerks when car is turned off and has a code p0420. OTherwise I like it. It has no rust, paint is great, handles gr8. Performs amazingly awesome. It requires premium fuel, uses high mileage oil for 40k miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frougy Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Edit: sorry. When I turn on the car the AT TEMP OIL LIGHT flashes 16 times. I'VE been drinking. Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnegg Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 the AT TEMP OIL LIGHT flashes 16 times this indicates there is / was an electrical fault in the auto trans the last time you drove the car. the flashing light combined with the binding in tight turns means your duty C solenoid in the rear extension housing on the trans is bad. it is about a 100$ part and can be done in the drive way with out dropping the trans. do a search: ''flashing temp duty solenoid'' and read up on it. does it flash every time you start the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Has the trans fluid ever been changed? That's a good question to ask and find out. These transmissions really don't like it when you wait too long to have the fluid changed... I also agree with everything John said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frougy Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Transmission fluid has been changed at 145171 exactly 3 days ago, along with a new filter. The flashing light does flash 16 times every time car is turned on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frougy Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Fluid and filter changed at 145k 4 days ago. it flashes every start up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 The flashing is definitely from the C-Duty. The binding is caused by that. It can also be caused by crappy fluid as well. Do a few more drain and fills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frougy Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 If I were to change the c duty solenoid, where will it be in the car, where to find to buy or how much would a shop charge to replace it. I really love the legacy outback, its a whole lot better than the 96 legacy 2.2 with 168k miles. I just bought the outback, I would hate to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennyfvholla Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 It's in the tail end of the transmission casing. The entire rear of the unit comes off. The part is about $100 from the dealer, and that's the only place I'd get it from. Don't sell the car just because of torque bind... I have no clue what the labor is for the job. I do everything myself. Hey Frougy, I posted a picture request thread in the second gen forum. You have a 96 with a 2.5, do you think you could help me out a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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