courtjesterclown Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Here we go. This past weekend, left the car sit almost empty on fuel and it got real humid outside. Im afraid the tank may have made some condensation inside. Anyways, left work yesteday, ran a couple of errands and then went and filled up on fuel. I noticed the car was running a little strange, almost like it was surging, but not strong enough to actually feel it cut out. Just a a sluggish feeling, sort of like the parking brake was on intermittently. Didnt think too much about it much more. Left work today, got 50 yards away and car completely died. Pulled in a parking lot, cranked and cranked no start. I pulled the fuel filter off and blew threw it, it didnt seem to be stopped up. Turned the key on and fuel came out the inlet hose going to the filter, so i know the fuel pump is working. hooked both the lines back up and tried cranking again, still no start. pulled off the line from the outlet of the fuel filter and it was highly pressurized. When i barely cracked the line off the spout, fuel shot everywhere. Am i wrong in thinking it is a fuel issue? Could it be a spark issue instead, if so where do i start with testing. I have a voltmeter. Thanks for any help you can give. 1994 Subaru Legacy, 2.2 Turbo, Automatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Clean your MAF sensor with a can of MAF cleaner or replace it. A second gen aluminum MAF is a direct swap iirc. Check the resistance of the primary and secondary coils of the coil pack as well as the resistance across the pins of the fuel injectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstrmech Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 just cause you have fuel flow doesnt mean its providing enough pressure. Only way to know is a fuel pressure gauge. When my pump was heading south i popped the cover off from under the carpet and smacked the sending unit... that helped on several occasions.... but it eventually died. If you dont have a fuel pressure tester, pop off a vacuum hose and spray starting fluid in the manifold, if it sputters and tries to start off that.... question answered.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snederhiser Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Hello; Go to the sticky and see what stored codes are in the ecu. This may lead you in the right direction. While you are there click on notes and tips, then tech articles, download the manual! Remember that three things are needed to make an engine run, fuel, fire, and timing! Steven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtjesterclown Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 So I put the Car into Diagnostic mode, flashed up a code 13 first, then a 23 second. 13 is a cam angle position sensor. 23 is abnormal voltage from airflow sensor. Should i try to swap the cam position sensor first? Do i need to get just the sensor, or buy the sensor and the wire harness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I'm telling you, clean your MAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevorno Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 +1 on clean your maf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtjesterclown Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 Cleaned The MAF, and all contacts, still no luck. On to the Cam Position Sensor. Am I understanding correctly that I can buy just the sensor and not the wiring? I checked around with local parts stores and it seems like I have to buy the sensor and the small wire harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Most sensors come with the wiring harness. If not splice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtjesterclown Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 Replaced the Cam Position Sensor, and still no start. Can someone lead me in the right direction on what to start testing? Im lost here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Did you check the fuel pressure yet? It wouldn't hurt to check the timing marks to make sure your belt hasn't skipped a few teeth. Your MAF could be bad as well. I had issues with my turbo leggy until I realized the MAF was crapped out. That's why I was suggesting cleaning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtjesterclown Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 I have not yet checked the fuel pressure, does it have to be checked with a gauge, or is there some other way? Is it common for these motors to jump timing? I did notice that sometimes when i tried to crank the motor, its cranking rythm would be changed, if that makes sense. Can you point me in the right direction of testing fuel pressure, Timing marks, and the MAF? I tried searching but couldnt really find anything definitive. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtjesterclown Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Left the battery unhooked over night, came back today, put it in diagnostic mode, code 13 cam position sensor is still there, but now it shows a code 49 as well, Mass Airflow Sensor. Should i get a new MAF and try swapping it? Will a faulty MAF cause the 13 code Cam position sensor to trip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtjesterclown Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Going back to the day before it shut off and wouldnt restart, i noticed it sort of surging while driving to the gas station. Kind of like a reduction in power, then it would come back fine. I have always been under the impression that a faulty MAF wouldnt keep the car from running, just from running efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstrmech Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 ya... enough chat about cleaning the friggin mass air flow sensor.... sheesh.. yes, the engine will start and run even with the MAF unplugged, thats why the ecm has its own base programming. The ecm will just use the maf to tune the A/F...... Checking fuel pressure needs a gauge. You need to unhook the supply line that comes off the fuel filter heading to the rail for a proper spec. Spec is right around 35psi. Now... if you still have a cam sensor code, Doesnt always mean the cam sensor is bad. CHECK YOUR COMPRESSION... If timing is off... it could throw that cam sensor code.. turbo models compression spec is 142-171 psi with MAX 28psi variation between cylinders. Compression gauges and fuel pressure gauges are fairly cheap these days, should cost less for both gauges than diag time at a shop.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeyposeur Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 mstrmech, with all due respect the MAFs do crap out and don't last forever so it is imperative to make sure it is functioning properly. In my experience unplugging the MAF results in a horrible idle and the engine dying. So in other words your sheesh requires a sheesh on my part. Once again when my MAF was dying the power would come and go so I replaced the fuel pump, injectors, filter, plugs, all vacuum lines, fixed every boost leak, etc. The MAF can cause problems. All of your other suggestions are spot on. Thanks for your efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstrmech Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Im NOT trying to start a debate or dereail/hijack this thread... and yes, MAF do crap out, but they DO NOT cause or are related to a no-start condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtjesterclown Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Havent gotten a fuel pressure gauge or compression tester yet, but I did pull a plug and checked for spark, and didn't see anything. No spark. I smelled fuel after cranking for a few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnstrmech Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 If you had a noid test light id say check for injector pulse and ignition pulse to the coil. Ignition pulse will rule out coil. Injector pulse would lead to crank sensor. Actually checking cam and crank sensors truly require a scope. They produce an ac voltage. You COULD try a dvom in ac volt mode, but scope is more accurate. But skipped timing belt COULD still cause the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtjesterclown Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 So I used a test light and tested the coil connector, tested good at the center plug and stayed lit during cranking. Neither of the outside pins showed up on the test light, during cranking, key off, or key on. nothing. Sounds like it may be a bad ground somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snederhiser Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Hello; Check the TR unit that sets on the center of the firewall. This controls the coil, making it fire. The coil has three wires, center being hot and the outsides being grounded by the unit, controlled by the ECU. Check all connections! Steven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtjesterclown Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 Replaced the ignitor with a tested good one, and still no start. Checked all connections, everything tight and no bare wires. Left the battery unhooked for a few days, came back and checked codes, still have 13, cam position sensor which i already replaced with a new one, new code 22, knock sensor, and code 49, improper MAF used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtjesterclown Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 Checked the coil connector with a multimeter, center pin 2 showed 12.85, batt voltage when on. Pin 1 showed .06 volts, and pin 3 showed .75 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snederhiser Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Hello; I would pull the timing covers and check the timing as suggested. Could be the reason for a no start condition, Steven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtjesterclown Posted June 14, 2013 Author Share Posted June 14, 2013 Update, sort of. I borrowed a friends test light, put the clamp on a ground and put the probe on the center pin on the coil connector, it lit and stayed lit during cranking. Then switched the clamp to the positive post on the battery, put the probe on both outside pins of the coil connector, they both lit and stayed lit during cranking. Soo, the ignitor is sending the power to the coil to spark, but i dont have any spark. I really dont understand what is going on. But i have to get the car running soon, landlord is threatening to have it towed. I dont get why after installing the new cam sensor, that the code 13 comes back up in diagnostic mode. I will go through all the grounds i see tomorrow, but putting a voltmeter between the positive post and each ground i see, i still have full battery voltage. Also someone mentioned to me that i should unhook the coolant temperature sensor and see if it started, does this make any sense?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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