Have you had a cracked oil pickup tube?

[Indiglow]

I think the KB product is definitely fancy looking but IMO is over-engineered for what it does, and the price matches that. Moroso and Covert(from IIR) are quality replacements that do the job.

[fahr_side]

I think the KB product is definitely fancy looking but IMO is over-engineered for what it does, and the price matches that. Moroso and Covert(from IIR) are quality replacements that do the job.

 

A little hard to tell isn't it? The stocker seems to go for about 4-5 years before failing, IF it's going to. How would you know if any of these products are better than stock until say 2015?

[xt2005bonbon]

We're not the only ones with this issue of cracked oil pickup tube btw. Over here in the 'baguette world' , some EDM impreza owners are facing the same nightmare. Here is an example of a thread on a French Impreza forum where they talk about it: http://forum.subby.fr/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=3504&start=0 . There's like 26 pages!! So it is definitely not a myth..

[fahr_side]

Dude, the two I've seen were both EDM models.

[xt2005bonbon]

We're not the only ones with this issue of cracked oil pickup tube btw. Over here in the 'baguette world' , some EDM impreza owners are facing the same nightmare. Here is an example of a thread on a French Impreza forum where they talk about it: http://forum.subby.fr/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=3504&start=0 . There's like 26 pages!! So it is definitely not a myth..

 

I should add that they only complain about the oil pickup tubes on the 2.5 turbo engine, since a lot of folks in Europe own 2.0 turbo subbies.

Also, looks like some 2.5 owners install 2.0 pick up tubes on their block. They believe the latter is more reliable than the OEM one on the 2.5 engines.

[killerbmotorsport]

Relying on a gauge is not good advice. Pre-2006 the OEM failures generally ocur very quicky from the point of crack formation. The post-2006 OEM pickup design occasionally give a few tell-tale syptoms; oil light flicker at idle, boucing pressure at cruise, etc., Without an oil pressure gauge with a big light or buzzer you're likely not going to catch the first few times it even happens, if it even gives any symptoms.

 

Under the right conditions (load, RPM, oil condition, etc.) an unnoticed compromise of 30 or more psi in oil pressure for 1/2 second is enough to skim bearings.

 

We've NEVER has an oil pickup failure, NEVER, and we've sold well over 2,000 of them. Most Subaru builders now use them as part of any build because it's cheap insurance on an expensive build/repair.

 

Early on we did have a few baffle failures (yours is old). Most were due to rod/baffle clearnaces not being checked (physical interference) on stroker engine setups, but some were due to failure of the part. We use a soft (relatively speaking) 1/4 hard 304 stainless steel for the baffle. As metals go it's gummy and rips/tears clean. It doesn't flake off debris like a lot of other metals. No engine failure has even been determined to be caused by a failed baffle. Anyone that contacts us with a failed baffle is obvioulsly sent a new one under warrantly, so long as the failure wasn't determined to be cause by impact.

 

Since these few early baffle failures the design was updated. The new design is several times stronger and there have been zero reported failures.

 

I don't know what to tell you on the pan's internal baffle. We get one returned about every 6-9 months, which is failure rate well below 1%. Of course we repair/replace any pan that has issues, as it's covered under our lifetime warranty. Search and you will find many more instances of the OEM pan's internal baffles failing than you will of ours.

 

The failures are cause by a manufacturing defect LINK HERE, not because of engine mounts, state of tune or modification, or if the car is tracked, or just a commuter. It actually takes a lot to break a new one [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXKY20K_0tI]ANOTHER LINK[/ame] and the faulure rate is low, under 2% by my estimates. A customer of mine made this statement, "The probability of pickup failure is low and insignificant, until it happens to me."

 

I'm not a "the sky is falling" kind of guy who will tell you your engine is doomed unless you use our product. For those on a tight budget, with time to spare, I recommend replacing the OEM pickup with an OEM pickup every 20K miles. The probability of failure below 20K miles with an OEM pickup is drastically reduced.

[HAMMER DOWN]

Early on we did have a few baffle failures (yours is old). Most were due to rod/baffle clearnaces not being checked (physical interference) on stroker engine setups, but some were due to failure of the part. We use a soft (relatively speaking) 1/4 hard 304 stainless steel for the baffle. As metals go it's gummy and rips/tears clean. It doesn't flake off debris like a lot of other metals. No engine failure has even been determined to be caused by a failed baffle. Anyone that contacts us with a failed baffle is obvioulsly sent a new one under warrantly, so long as the failure wasn't determined to be cause by impact.

 

Since these few early baffle failures the design was updated. The new design is several times stronger and there have been zero reported failures.

 

Anyway I can tell if I got the update oil pan baffle?

 

Mike

[HAMMER DOWN]

Pics. of my OEM oil pickup tube with almost 220k. No signs of failure, but did fine a big piece of RV in the PU screen. R&R with KillerB oil pickup tube & oil pan baffle.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l293/HAMMERDOWNGT/0328132038_zpsef3117cc.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l293/HAMMERDOWNGT/0328132044a_zps7ce6f69e.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l293/HAMMERDOWNGT/0328132044_zps154a4772.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l293/HAMMERDOWNGT/0328132043_zps185ad2f1.jpg Mike

[xt2005bonbon]

Installing my killerb tube next week

[HAMMER DOWN]

Installing my killerb tube next week

 

If you going to upgrade motor mounts. Now is the time to do it why'll the oil pan is off. Using 3\8"drive: 10-12" extension & 14mm swivel socket.

 

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l293/HAMMERDOWNGT/0328132030_zpse01f0f58.jpg

 

 

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l293/HAMMERDOWNGT/0330130650_zps4a3134cc.jpg

 

Mike

[killerbmotorsport]

Anyway I can tell if I got the update oil pan baffle?

 

Mike

 

Yes, the thickness will be .036

[Guest]

I have seen about 8 Killer-B parts with failed welds. I have never seen a failed OEM pickup tube. I take about 1 motor apart a week for the last several years.

 

This is a shitty post. Seemingly written to imply a KillerB pickup failed at a weld. Did it? I haven't heard about one.

[killerbmotorsport]

This is a shitty post. Seemingly written to imply a KillerB pickup failed at a weld. Did it? I haven't heard about one.

 

I don't get it either. We're all human and I'd never say anyone is perfect. Mistakes can happen from the raw material supply, to the guy that cuts the material, machine operators, welders, finishers, and even the QC guy.

 

I can say for certain we've NEVER had an oil pickup failure. We've NEVER had a catastrophic pan failure. If I were to guess 25 or so pan baffle failures (cracked or broken), or a very slow leak. Close to half are due to install error (even by shops who 'have been doing this for years and we know what we're doing') where the baffle gets damaged during the installation. but keep in mind we've been making them since 2009 and have made over 3,000 pans since then. That's an extremely low failure rate. The stainless baffles have evolved over the years we've been making them, since before the oil pan, and we did have a batch early on that had a built in manufacturing defect causing about a 2% failure rate, which is extremely high as far as I'm concerned. Material, design, and process have all since evolved and that failure rate over the last several years is less than 0%. The only ones I've seen come back have been due to incorrect assembly (crank/rod/bolt), interference when using an oddball stroke, when the rotating assembly clearance was not checked.

 

Again, we're not perfect and no one is, and this is why we have a lifetime warranty on our products as well.

[Guest]

<---- rocking two KillerB pickups. Sleeping well.

[HAMMER DOWN]

Over 100k on mine, with no issues.

[mwiener2]

Since this post got revived after 5 years...

 

 

I still see failed welds right out of the box on Killer-B oil pans and baffles plates. They have always replaced them when this is found. I have not seen any failed Killer-B oil pickup tubes.

I do not believe their pickup tube is worth the premium price they are asking. There are others on the market that are as good if not better at a much better price point.

 

1 out of about 15 motors I take apart has a hairline crack on the OEM oil pickup tube. In the several hundred motors I've taken apart, none of the failures could be attributed to the hairline crack in the OEM pickup tube. The hairline crack is so small, it doesn't likely affect oil suction into the oil pump. It may allow oil to drain out of the pickup during the off cycle, causing an extra second or two of low oil pressure on startup. This could take a few thousand miles off the life expectancy of a motor. So it might last 150,000 miles instead of 180,000.

Most of the motors I'm taking apart have head gasket failure; ring, ringland, or piston failure; or some kind of catastrophic failure with no obvious reason why. Many of these motors are previously 'built'.

 

Do the OEM oil pickup tubes generate a hairline fracture, yes. Does this cause engine failure, almost never. Have not seen a cracked pickup tube on a Subaru newer than a 2010.

 

I should note that I have nothing against Killer-B. I actually use their Holy Headers on a lot of my builds. I just don't think their Oil Pick Up Tube is worth the price and their marketing for it relies on scare tactics.

[killerbmotorsport]

I still see failed welds right out of the box on Killer-B oil pans and baffles plates. They have always replaced them when this is found.

 

How many times has this happened? I can think of one instance in many years we've had a pan returned right out of the box. This was a missing weld (1 out of 6) on the pan baffle.

 

This is not a failed weld, it's a missing weld.

 

I do not believe their pickup tube is worth the premium price they are asking. There are others on the market that are as good if not better at a much better price point.

 

There are certainly cheaper versions out there, but not made with the same materials and/or features. We can certainly start another thread if you want to see a breakdown of 'theirs vs ours', we've been down this road before...

 

Here are some pics from that comparison, but we can reserve the full detailed write-up for another thread if there's interest.

 

Oil Pickup: KBM vs competitor

 

1 out of about 15 motors I take apart has a hairline crack on the OEM oil pickup tube.

 

Are you sure about that? That's about a 7% which is a LOT. My data shows the failure rate to be <2%. A failure being anything from catastrophic to a crack that can only be seen under magnification. Here are some of the pics I've collected from about 2009-2012-ish.

 

FAILED EJ OEM Oil Pickups

 

The hairline crack is so small, it doesn't likely affect oil suction into the oil pump.

 

The issue here is that cracks always propagate, always. So if you have a crack, it's only going to get worse over time unless it's stop drilled and repaired, but for a part like this replacement makes a heck of a lot more sense given the materials the OEM part is made from.

 

Have not seen a cracked pickup tube on a Subaru newer than a 2010.

 

Same part number, same manufacturing process, same engine, same everything. Some of the failures on the pics link I posted are post 2010. The next time I come across a newer car failure I can update the album. As you might image, I hear about more failed pickup tubes than probably anyone on the planet. Especially selling to dealerships that replace OEM under warranty with ours, and still uphold the warranty. No other pickup manufacturer can claim that.

 

I should note that I have nothing against Killer-B. I actually use their Holy Headers on a lot of my builds.

 

Thanks for the support. Moving forward, I'd definitely want more feedback if you have issues with any of our products out of the box. If you have issues we can fix, we obviously would want to resolve that.

 

I just don't think their Oil Pick Up Tube is worth the price and their marketing for it relies on scare tactics.

 

Everyone has their own checkboxes for what's important for them in the products they choose. I have no issue with that at all. Many, especially in the used market, are bargain shopping for components. These are not our demographic. Our products aren't inexpensive, but it is for a reason; process, materials, and performance. There is nothing that matches it.

 

As far as scare tactics go, I don't know what to tell you. Loosing oil supply to the engine is a scary subject in general. I don't ever recall any marketing from us stating "your engine will fail if you don't use our product". I have posted pics in the past, and LOTS of info from customer's experiences has appeared on many of our forum threads. That is not my doing.

[DoDo1975]

Just had my rod bearing failure diagnosed. Crack in oil pickup.

[xt2005bonbon]

I never reported it here but two months ago, I started to notice that my oil warning light was staying on a bit longer than I liked during cold start. This was particularly more noticeable if I let the car sit for several days. At the first cold start, the light would then stay on for like 1.5 sec after start up, turn off, then flicker a couple of times then turned off. I then suspected a cracked pick up. Aaaaand that was the case! Replaced it with a Moroso. Car runs fine. There was no shavings in the oil. But I have probably lost a few hundreds (or thousands) of miles on the engine. Freak.

Original engine with 162K.

 

 

 

[Notorious]

I have a Moroso pickup and oil pan waiting to be installed during the next oil change. Let’s hope nothing happens in the next 1,000 miles or so...